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Tree setups for Trad

H

Hilltopper

New Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
4
I'm just getting comfortable with my new saddle gear and have recently purchased a longbow after several years of crossbow hunting. My goal is to be competent and confident with my gear by next hunting season. I'm going to work on putting several preset locations up this winter on my own land. My question is this- should effective trad setups be lower than a compound or crossbow user might prefer? If you start 30' up you're already at least 10 yards away from everything- for example a deer 15 yards from your tree is now 18 yards away. Secondly, and more significantly, the steeper shooting angles put a greater premium on accuracy. Seems to me a good trad setup will have to be lower and have more cover/trees around it. Agree?
 
Hilltopper said:
I'm just getting comfortable with my new saddle gear and have recently purchased a longbow after several years of crossbow hunting. My goal is to be competent and confident with my gear by next hunting season. I'm going to work on putting several preset locations up this winter on my own land. My question is this- should effective trad setups be lower than a compound or crossbow user might prefer? If you start 30' up you're already at least 10 yards away from everything- for example a deer 15 yards from your tree is now 18 yards away. Secondly, and more significantly, the steeper shooting angles put a greater premium on accuracy. Seems to me a good trad setup will have to be lower and have more cover/trees around it. Agree?
Click to expand...
When I was hunting trad out of my saddle I didnt setup much different, but guys like
@Allegheny Tom @swampsnyper @100rollie @WHW (I"m probably missing some others, sorry guys) have been doing it a long time and will probabyl have some great pointers.
 
Learn an aiming method, dont start off trying to summon the gods of luck. My favorite tree Im pretty high up, but my shot is up on a side hill, so as you are eluding, Im not that high above them. The only reason to be lower than the other weapons is due to the inherent less accuracy. I like to hunt 20-25ft up, but I also dont get many shots to decide if I need to be lower. lol
 
My setups tend to be about the same. I flip back and forth on which bows I'm using so I do it all about the same. Main difference is shooting with a cant to the bow vs fully vertical. Easier to stay inline with the tree with a compound.
If I'm hunting trad bows primarily, I'll setup a lot closer to the anticipated shot however. I don't have any reason to wait, draw, hold, and site. Just pull and go.
 
Vtbow said:
When I was hunting trad out of my saddle I didnt setup much different, but guys like
@Allegheny Tom @swampsnyper @100rollie @WHW (I"m probably missing some others, sorry guys) have been doing it a long time and will probabyl have some great pointers.
Click to expand...
I can't compare a trad set up to a tech bow set up because I've never hunted with tech gear from a saddle, I've only used 2 recurves...60" and 58".
With pretty much everything I choose to do, I do so based on the odds...risk versus return.
I have no fear of heights but I do have a fear of shooting from those super high sets. For me, it's just not worth the risk of a bad hit. Heck, it's hard enough to make ethical shots from a reasonable height let alone going up to nose bleed height. And we are obviously talking about the height above the deer, not the height up the tree. In some terrain 35 feet up may only put us at eye level with our intended shot.

There are only 2 reasons for going high and neither of those is as important to me as ethical shots.
1 reason is for odor, and I've never really bought into that argument. Your odor is at the mercy of the wind. Wind seldom travels parallel with the ground. There are up-drafts, down-drafts, and swirling. Unless the deer is directly straight down at the base of the tree, going higher doesn't do much to improve odor busts, at least not to the degree that it's worth having more difficult and risky shot angles. I'm meticulous about my odor reduction and I've done really well as the years and my system have progressed, but I gotta say that this year was off the charts for me not getting busted by odor. Deer simply either did not smell me or they considered the level of my odor to not be a threat.
Reason 2 for going high is to stay above the deer's peripheral vision. That may be true to some extent, but it often puts the hunter above back cover which leads to sky lighting. I always try to choose trees that allow adequate cover, so going higher is not worth the price IMO.

Sharp, downward angles can be a problem for bow clearance. There are times (happened to me just the other day) that I just can't shoot where I would like to shoot because of lack of bow clearance on something or other...the tree, the stand, my leg, or something. Usually I can position myself so I could shoot, but it's not always conducive to a fluid shot sequence. Forcing a shot is a recipe for disaster.
If I position myself 10-12 feet above the deer in a tree with decent cover, keep myself as odor reduced as possible, and move only when it's the right time, then I'm getting away with murder being low in the tree.
It also takes less gear to climb lower.
 
Lots of good advice already given. This is one HUGE factor for hunting traditional. Some guys are very accurate with their trad bows and can still hunt high. For the average guy, improving the shot angle will be super important. I always hunted 25+ with my compound and now that I shoot Trad I like to be 13-16. The highest I would go is 20.
 
I have to chime in here and say that I used to be of this train of thought—get high for odor management—but, this year has taught me that going high may not provide a benefit odor-wise.
Case in point, just this season, I was 25 feet to my platform. Winds were steady but rather light 4-5mph. No swirling or weird drafts. I know because this particular evening I was dropping milkweed like a crazy man. A doe approached walking crosswind by my tree at 40yds. She hit my scent like a brick wall, course corrected, and skirted way around without giving me a shot opportunity. I checked again with the milkweed and the it carried right to where she had just stood.

My point is that at 40yds with a light wind, the effort to get up so high did me no favors for scent “control”
She didn’t see me, so you might could argue getting high from that standpoint.
But I’ve also been the closest ever to deer 3yds on the ground on public land and the deer never even noticed me.

I’m not trying to dismiss the idea of getting up high, because in certain cases I think there can be a scent advantage. But guys, don’t let this be the only reason you go high, and certainly don’t compromise shot angles thinking it will help you stay undetected. Going high may be more of a disadvantage in certain situations like mine.
 
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HappyChappy said:
1 reason is for odor, and I've never really bought into that argument. Your odor is at the mercy of the wind. Wind seldom travels parallel with the ground. There are up-drafts, down-drafts, and swirling. Unless the deer is directly straight down at the base of the tree, going higher doesn't do much to improve odor busts, at least not to the degree that it's worth having more difficult and risky shot angles. I'm meticulous about my odor reduction and I've done really well as the years and my system have progressed, but I gotta say that this year was off the charts for me not getting busted by odor. Deer simply either did not smell me or they considered the level of my odor to not be a threat.

I have to chime in here and say that I used to be of this train of though—get high for odor management—but, this year has taught me that going high may not provide a benefit odor-wise.
Case in point, just this season, I was 25 feet to my platform. Winds were steady but rather light 4-5mph. No swirling or weird drafts. I know because this particular evening I was dropping milkweed like a crazy man. A doe approached walking crosswind by my tree at 40yds. She hit my scent like a brick wall, course corrected, and skirted way around without giving me a shot opportunity. I checked again with the milkweed and the it carried right to where she had just stood.

My point is that at 40yds with a light wind, the effort to get up so high did me no favors for scent “control”
She didn’t see me, so you might could argue getting high from that standpoint.
But I’ve also been the closest ever to deer 3yds on public land and the deer never even noticed me.

I’m not trying to dismiss the idea of getting up high, because in certain cases I think there can be a scent advantage. But guys, DONT let this be the only reason you go high, and certainly don’t compromise shot angles thinking it will help you stay undetected. In my experience, the scent “advantatage” may be a disadvantage in certain situations like mine.
Click to expand...
Similar thing happened to me, but I wasnt dropping milk weed. I was up fairly high and the ground dropped more down wind into a swamp. I only knew the direction I could feel the wind and it was headed out over the swamp. No concern, figured the deer would come on upwind side of me. Buck walking in the swamp hit my scent stream and popped his head up. Looked left/right, then bounded straight away from me, didnt bother to go back the way he came. Id guess him at about 40yds as well. I hadnt walked out there, heck nobody has as far as I know(private land). It had to be my airborne scent, not ground scent.
 
A lot of great points here for you.
As you stated in your original post, you've got all year to figure it out.
I can only speak for myself, I use a 60" recurve, without my quiver attached when in tree, instinctive, with out any type of aiming device except looking where i want to hit and trying to have consistent form and anchor point. Height is situational for me, as long as i feel i will pass through vitals, I'm good.
I have stated this here before . The most helpful thing i have done for my confidence and success in hunting, I still do year round. I keep a back quiver "FULL" of flu flu arrows with judos and steel blunts with rubber tips by the back door, They are 340 fmj, and discontinued beeman 340 mfx set up exactly as my hunting arrows only instead of 4 - 4inch wild turkey feathers, they are 4 - 4 inch flu flus. weights are matched to my hunting arrows. The pocket in my back quiver has several golf balls in it. I keep a set of ladder sticks to a tree in my back yard with a platform set up. After climbing up and tethering to tree, i throw golf balls in every direction at different distances. Then shoot them, climb down, retrieve them, and repeat. I believe if you practice this at least weekly, by next season, you will get to the point where you will be very happy, and confident. Works for me.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I can't compare a trad set up to a tech bow set up because I've never hunted with tech gear from a saddle, I've only used 2 recurves...60" and 58".
With pretty much everything I choose to do, I do so based on the odds...risk versus return.
I have no fear of heights but I do have a fear of shooting from those super high sets. For me, it's just not worth the risk of a bad hit. Heck, it's hard enough to make ethical shots from a reasonable height let alone going up to nose bleed height. And we are obviously talking about the height above the deer, not the height up the tree. In some terrain 35 feet up may only put us at eye level with our intended shot.

There are only 2 reasons for going high and neither of those is as important to me as ethical shots.
1 reason is for odor, and I've never really bought into that argument. Your odor is at the mercy of the wind. Wind seldom travels parallel with the ground. There are up-drafts, down-drafts, and swirling. Unless the deer is directly straight down at the base of the tree, going higher doesn't do much to improve odor busts, at least not to the degree that it's worth having more difficult and risky shot angles. I'm meticulous about my odor reduction and I've done really well as the years and my system have progressed, but I gotta say that this year was off the charts for me not getting busted by odor. Deer simply either did not smell me or they considered the level of my odor to not be a threat.
Reason 2 for going high is to stay above the deer's peripheral vision. That may be true to some extent, but it often puts the hunter above back cover which leads to sky lighting. I always try to choose trees that allow adequate cover, so going higher is not worth the price IMO.

Sharp, downward angles can be a problem for bow clearance. There are times (happened to me just the other day) that I just can't shoot where I would like to shoot because of lack of bow clearance on something or other...the tree, the stand, my leg, or something. Usually I can position myself so I could shoot, but it's not always conducive to a fluid shot sequence. Forcing a shot is a recipe for disaster.
If I position myself 10-12 feet above the deer in a tree with decent cover, keep myself as odor reduced as possible, and move only when it's the right time, then I'm getting away with murder being low in the tree.
It also takes less gear to climb lower.
Click to expand...


Your post reminded me of a time I was dropping milkweed and it went completely around me in a circle before it went in the direction I thought the wind was blowing. Wind is evil sometimes.
 
100rollie said:
A lot of great points here for you.
As you stated in your original post, you've got all year to figure it out.
I can only speak for myself, I use a 60" recurve, without my quiver attached when in tree, instinctive, with out any type of aiming device except looking where i want to hit and trying to have consistent form and anchor point. Height is situational for me, as long as i feel i will pass through vitals, I'm good.
I have stated this here before . The most helpful thing i have done for my confidence and success in hunting, I still do year round. I keep a back quiver "FULL" of flu flu arrows with judos and steel blunts with rubber tips by the back door, They are 340 fmj, and discontinued beeman 340 mfx set up exactly as my hunting arrows only instead of 4 - 4inch wild turkey feathers, they are 4 - 4 inch flu flus. weights are matched to my hunting arrows. The pocket in my back quiver has several golf balls in it. I keep a set of ladder sticks to a tree in my back yard with a platform set up. After climbing up and tethering to tree, i throw golf balls in every direction at different distances. Then shoot them, climb down, retrieve them, and repeat. I believe if you practice this at least weekly, by next season, you will get to the point where you will be very happy, and confident. Works for me.
Click to expand...

That's a great way to practice but, I'm curios why you use the Flu Flu's to shoot into the ground? We use to shoot flu flue's a lot at aerial targets but, if you shooting judo's and blunts into the ground couldn't you just use regular fletchings?
 
Same set up as when I use to compound hunt except rarely go over 15 feet to platform. I do find I get picked out more often than when I use to get over 20. So I try harder to find trees with more cover at 15 ft but I always try to be in the right spot to get a under 20 yards shot. The right spot is always more important than the right tree to me. Got to get them close.
 
I have hunted for 40+ years trad only and most always from a saddle. I climb to the first cover. My standard is 3 LW climbing steps and 1 or 2 screw ins for a platform. Maybe 15 feet
 
One thing I'll add .. Don't forget when hunting out of a saddle you have the tree between you and the animal. So if you're getting elevated to not get picked off I don't think that's a concern. I've had deer come in look up at me and just go about their business. Nothing like a lock on or climber where they pin you and it's game over. I hunt at about 20 feet.
 
The higher you go the steeper the shot angle. One lungers are never good. I try to approach as if I am in a ground blind. Make sure you have cover behind you. That makes for a better sit as you don't have to be so still or climb so high. If I need to reach up and scratch that's ok. Avoid being stuck out in the open, Most of my sets are 3 trees in a clump. If needed I can hang a piece of camo netting to give me cover. It's cheap so I leave it up all season incase I want to hunt that set again. In fact the coolest hunt I made was about 30 years ago. I found a food plot on the Core property with no trees with in bow range. There was a clump of pines that were 3 inches at the stump. I negotiated 2 steps up using 2 trees and tied the tops together of 3 trees. I had a nice buck come in and winded me. He took a hard left, I leaned over to take the shot pulling all 3 trees nearly on top of him. I got off a shot and pulled him out of a creek in less than 50 yards.
 
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