• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Arrow building

slonstdy said:
Did you ever have a preconceived notion of how an event would play out before it took place? Happened to me today. Here's a teaser, I've been overdosing on the ranch fairy videos on arrow building...

I went to the archery shop today with the intention of picking up a few different arrow shafts to take home and bare shaft tune in various weights to determine what flies best. The two "young" fellas behind the counter looked at me like I was nuts and asked what am I trying to do so I told them I'm experimenting and want to build arrows in the 500 - 600gr range. They reacted as if I insulted their manhood! First came the questions of "why?" "what purpose?" "what are you hunting?" Then I was told stories of 50 yd pass through shots on elk with 400gr arrows and if that arrow weight takes down elk then it'll easily pass through a deer. And finally I got the"they'll never fly right" and "we tried that." Thrown in there somewhere was the fact that it's almost impossible to find broad heads heavier than 150gr. The ranch fairy said this would happen, lol.

Then they asked what bow I'm shooting and down that path we went. When I said that I don't see much improvements performance wise from my "old" bow to the latest offerings they agreed that speed and letoff are only marginally better but the $1100 one is more "efficient" so it shoots faster. They practically forced me to shoot it so I took it for a test drive and told them they're right, it is the greatest bow I have ever shot when in reality it felt good but no way on God's green earth did it knock my socks off or blow me away. Yes it's a tad smaller and lighter and incrementally smoother on the draw and shot cycle but again only just. I like to say "how much rounder can you make a wheel?"

So I left the shop without arrows and convinced I don't "need" a new bow.
Click to expand...
Similar experience at my local archery shop. Told him I was looking for some screw on weight to play with my current arrows and see how far I could go with a 350 spine, while I was waiting for my 300s and 250s to arrive. We got into fixed blade from mechanical, heavy arrow and FOC and I didnt know a humans eyes could roll so far back. Had to tell him if you 400 gr rage setup works for you then have at it. As an archery business owner you should be well versed in all setups and be willing to help anyone with anything they want to do. That would be more advantageous to the business owner, no? Anyways bought the weights and walked out. He got my $8, but thatll be it.
 
I also think as a shop owner you should be open to the customers ideas. There is no one right way when it comes to most anything.
My guy set me up with light arrows to go for speed,but after this season i am going to 150 + gr heavier,just in case i hit a shoulder.

The light arrows worked just fine going through ribs,but anything will do that.
I am curious to see how much arrow drop i will get after going to the heavier set up.
That really shouldn't affect my hunting as i doubt i would shoot past 30 yds. I had two less than perfect hits this year at 20 or so yds at walking does,and i practiced a ton before the season,just not at slow moving targets.
I got both does,but they didn't die as fast as they should have.
 
I'm currently on the heavy arrow path. I've gotten over my high 500s to low 600gn arrow thoughts. Here's where I'm headed, 250 spine VAP TKO @ 28 inches(eventually), @ 9.5gr /inch. 250gr CoC single bevel head, 95gr stainless steel in/outsert, with a 20rg lighted nock. The gold tip calculator has that set op at 649gr with 21.8 FOC.
 
Light fast arrows break easier and that is why the shops want you to buy them.

The first time I went in to talk about a heavier arrow set up I got the same gloss over look and 50 stories to prove why they were right and I was wrong. They then told me they don't even carry arrows stiffer then 350 because that's all that you need. I just told them that I guess I don't need to buy arrows, inserts, heavy field points, new broadheads, and vanes from you. Wouldn't you want a customer to go down the rabbit hole? I will be buy multiple shaft stiffnesses and inserts to find out what I like then come back and buy a couple dozen of everything so I am set up the why I the customer what to be set up.

When at a range is it cool to see a super fast arrow...meh. Every arrow looks fast but when a heavy arrow pounds the target that is what I like. I also haven't stepped into a shop to buy or get my bow tuned in over 4 years.
 
Archery shops like most hunters are apparently "institutionalized" in their way of thinking and afraid to step out of their comfort zone. Case in point is the shop I visited was all in on speed is what matters most., Arrow build quality and components were not mentioned and I committed a serious offense discussing heavier weight options.

Just like the tree stand industry and tree stand hunters who believe their way is the be all end all, the safety in numbers group mob mentality is prevalent in most of society including archery shops. But all of us here are willing to think outside the box and are open to TRY new ideas and judge for ourselves what works best for our application, hence we hunt from saddles and are always looking to improve what we have.

There is no better feeling than being told something won't work or can't be done and by experimenting for yourself finding a way to prove the naysayers wrong and getting it done!
 
Decided to "practice" my arrow building skills on some I have laying around here so I have my technique down and don't ruin the new ones I plan on buying. These are Cabela's Carbon Hunter 65/80 with 9.3gpi with aluminum inserts installed.

First step was to remove the inserts. I used a soldering iron with a 8/32" screw threaded in with the head cut off and the end chamfered so it could be screwed into the insert.

soldering iron 1.jpg

Here is the arrow insert screwed onto the soldering iron to heat the glue

removal.jpg

Depending on how much glue was used it took between 15 seconds to about a minute for the glue to loosen and for me to be able to pull the insert from the arrow. The end of the arrow was pretty warm to the touch after the insert was out so I dipped the end in cold water to remove the residual heat.

insert removed.jpg

Next I ran a marker around the end as a guide for the squaring process

end marking.jpg

A few turns on the arrow squaring tool, this one is the G5...

squaring tool.jpg

And here is the finished squared end. You can see the uniform ring of "gray" carbon.

squared end.jpg

I still need to clean the inside of the shafts to remove any residual glue but I haven't decided how I want to do that. The last thing I did was put each arrow on the spinner and this was the real eye opener...

arrow spinner.jpg


At first I was only looking to verify that the insert end of each arrow was square and running true but to my amazement I found of the 13 arrows, 5 spun true and the remaining 7 had varying degrees of wobble with some having a noticeable wobble on both ends! I realize this is what the manufacturers refer to when they specify the straightness, I think these arrows spec at +/- .005". When I do decide on a shaft to build I will take the straightness factor into account.

My plan for right now is to order a field point test kit from Ethics Archery along with 100gr ss inserts for these arrows to find a weight range that works with my bow set up. I am undecided at the moment if I want to build a micro diameter shaft or a standard size shaft. I've hunted for years with the example arrows above and never had a bad experience with them so if they are considered a budget arrow and have performed well (with my past haphazard build efforts no less) do I need to go to the opposite end of the spectrum and build micro diameter Victory or Grizzlystiks or is there a middle of the road arrow that meets my criteria? I know I'm heading in the right direction whatever I decide to build so for now I will continue my research.
 
slonstdy said:
Decided to "practice" my arrow building skills on some I have laying around here so I have my technique down and don't ruin the new ones I plan on buying. These are Cabela's Carbon Hunter 65/80 with 9.3gpi with aluminum inserts installed.

First step was to remove the inserts. I used a soldering iron with a 8/32" screw threaded in with the head cut off and the end chamfered so it could be screwed into the insert.

View attachment 22496

Here is the arrow insert screwed onto the soldering iron to heat the glue

View attachment 22497

Depending on how much glue was used it took between 15 seconds to about a minute for the glue to loosen and for me to be able to pull the insert from the arrow. The end of the arrow was pretty warm to the touch after the insert was out so I dipped the end in cold water to remove the residual heat.

View attachment 22498

Next I ran a marker around the end as a guide for the squaring process

View attachment 22499

A few turns on the arrow squaring tool, this one is the G5...

View attachment 22500

And here is the finished squared end. You can see the uniform ring of "gray" carbon.

View attachment 22501

I still need to clean the inside of the shafts to remove any residual glue but I haven't decided how I want to do that. The last thing I did was put each arrow on the spinner and this was the real eye opener...

View attachment 22502


At first I was only looking to verify that the insert end of each arrow was square and running true but to my amazement I found of the 13 arrows, 5 spun true and the remaining 7 had varying degrees of wobble with some having a noticeable wobble on both ends! I realize this is what the manufacturers refer to when they specify the straightness, I think these arrows spec at +/- .005". When I do decide on a shaft to build I will take the straightness factor into account.

My plan for right now is to order a field point test kit from Ethics Archery along with 100gr ss inserts for these arrows to find a weight range that works with my bow set up. I am undecided at the moment if I want to build a micro diameter shaft or a standard size shaft. I've hunted for years with the example arrows above and never had a bad experience with them so if they are considered a budget arrow and have performed well (with my past haphazard build efforts no less) do I need to go to the opposite end of the spectrum and build micro diameter Victory or Grizzlystiks or is there a middle of the road arrow that meets my criteria? I know I'm heading in the right direction whatever I decide to build so for now I will continue my research.
Click to expand...

When you spin a bare shaft, mark which side has the wobble and cut your arrow from that end. If both side have similar wobble, trim from both sides. You can make cheaper, less straight tolerance shafts just as straight tolerant as the expensive shafts. The shorter your arrows need to be, the more you can trim off and the straighter they can be, for the most part.

Spin check shafts, cut appropriate end, square both ends even factory cut ends, spin check the plastic nocks and broadheads.
 
Check out Clay Hayes video on youtube if you guys haven't yet. Its centered around trad gear but a lot can apply to compound bows too!
 
The arrows are a 340 spine which will probably be underspined for the weight I'll be adding, but hey this is testing and you never know until you try. I'm going to pick up some 300 and 250 shafts so I can really see how different spines react with the same weight.
 
Weldabeast said:
I got 350 spine with 200gr inserts and every point weight in the test pack flys
Click to expand...
Flies yes...straight meh. Haha.

I maxed my 300 spines out at 250 gr (50 gr black eagle halfout) and 250s at 300 gr with halfout. Needed some slight draw weight adjustment between the 2.

Need to go back and test my 350s but think my goal weight will be a little heavier than they can handle but guess you never know.

Hands broken at the moment so I'll get back on it probably March.

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk
 
I am just a weekend bow hunter so maybe I'm not trained what to look for ....30yds and under a 400 and 800 flys the same for me..... Lighted nock looks like a laser with no tail side2side or up&down hitting square to the target

Only think that changes is point of aim and the noise of the bow
 
I'm definitely not trying to start something here but....if your groups are tight but not hitting where you aim this could be due to an under or over spined arrow. Adjusting the pins isn't necessarily the best fix since your bow may not be shooting at it's full potential. I think these guys are just trying to get their bows to perform as optimally as they can after spending a decent chunk of change on them.
 
Weldabeast said:
I am just a weekend bow hunter so maybe I'm not trained what to look for ....30yds and under a 400 and 800 flys the same for me..... Lighted nock looks like a laser with no tail side2side or up&down hitting square to the target

Only think that changes is point of aim and the noise of the bow
Click to expand...
You say they hit square to the target but what target are you using. It can not be a bag target. Try a bare shaft that will show the flaws. Shooting field points inside 30 might not show any flaws because the vanes will be able to correct it. Shoot bare shafts at 10 yards and then back up to 20 and you will see a change for sure. With a properly spined arrow, tuned bow and perfect form you will be able to get an arrow to fly true out to 20, 30 and some people 50 and 60.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top