Arrow building

[slonstdy]

Over the course of the this season there has been quite a few threads started about arrow flight, penetration issues or failed components so I thought since the season is winding down for most of us now would be a good time to start a thread about arrow building.

In the past I have ordered full length arrows complete with vanes and nocks already installed, cut them down to size, glued the inserts and shoved them in. Did't think it mattered if the ends of the arrows weren't exactly squared off so the insert shoulder sat uniformly on the cut end. Screwed in 100gr field points and spent the summer shooting while never truly realizing that my "bad shots" which I always took for granted as something I did wrong while performing the shot sequence were more likely due to poorly assembled arrows. Midway through my summertime shooting season I would select what I thought were the best shooting most consistent arrows and put them in my hunting quiver. When the season opened I would slap a NAP Spitfire or two blade Rage on them and go hunting. Knowing what I know now I realize that my own sub par terminal performance issues over the years were a direct result of my flippant attitude towards arrow building.

The benefits of a heavy arrow with a high foc% have been mentioned and praised so often in posts that I am planning to build a few batches of arrows in varying weights and foc% to find what works best for with my bow. I also will be shelving the mechanicals and going with a cut on contact fixed blade broadhead. This is new territory for me and I want to do it the right way. I am planning to order and use an arrow squaring tool and an arrow spinner during the build process and document the components of each batch.

My current arrows weigh between 415 - 440 grains with an 11% foc and I've got a 29.5" draw length shooting at 62#'s which for next season I might raise to 65#'s to try to help keep a flatter trajectory with the heavier arrows. My goal is to build arrows in the 500 - 550 range with a 15% or greater foc. Now here is where I need some input from the knowledgeable arrow builders out there.

1. Is there a benefit to ordering arrows bare shaft vs complete with vanes and nocks other than to have the ability to personalize colors, nocks and vane sizes?
2. I'm planning to use brass inserts to customize the final arrow weight. What is the correct adhesive and more importantly the proper way to remove an insert from a carbon arrow? Applying heat directly to carbon arrows is damaging from what I've researched. Is there an easy diy way to do this without spending money for an insert removal tool?
3. There are too many arrow choices out there as far as I'm concerned, Christ Almighty Easton alone must have twenty plus varieties. 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, FMJ blah blah blah. Then there's Gold Tip, Maxima and Beman. Other than resisting wind drift does arrow diameter make a difference in regards to penetration? I don't believe so as the diameter of the broadhead itself is making a larger hole than the shaft diameter but I could be missing something. I'm not looking for the latest and greatest super duper arrow shaft so can you guys help narrow down the selection to what you like and have had good results with. I've never paid a lot for arrows and have had success using Easton Epics, Cabela's Hunter and a few others with similar specs but want to try some "higher" quality arrows for these builds.
4. CoC broadheads - QAD Exodus? 125gr Magnus Snuffer? Or is there something else I should be looking at? What have you had good results with?

If I am overlooking anything please speak up, I am smart enough to know I don't know everything and appreciate your input and critiques.

Once I gather the components and begin the builds I will document the process and share pics and updates as I go along.

 

[Kurt]

I am also on the arrow building track. I don't know all there is to know and the more I look into it the more I realize how much there is to know. I just ordered a cut off saw/with spinner, a grain scale, a squaring tool And hot melt glue for the components. I already own a fletching jig. I've decided to go micro diameter shafts. Using those requires an in/outsert, so no HIT system like on the FMJs. I to will be bulking up the total weight and looking to increase FOC. I've decided to go with the Victory VAP TKO shaft with the 95gr Stainless steel in/outsert. I'll be looking at a 150 or 200 gr CoC single bevel head to top it off. At the other end will be 3 2" blazer vanes and a nockturnal nock. 549gr-599gr total weight,17.1 to 19.6 FOC.

 

[MN_Bowhunter4]

I’m in this same boat. I’ve thought about just asking my shop to set some up for me, but I’d also like to be involved in the process. The selection of arrows is indeed overwhelming! Following.

 

[Bowmanmike]

The thin diameter arrows generally penetrate better because there is less friction on the shaft after the broadhead passes through and the tissue sort of closes up in my opinion. Even more so if you go through the scapula,not that the bone closes up but having the shaft follow a bigger diameter hole must be advantageous.
I like to have a few bareshaft arrows in my quiver to shoot once in a while with my fletched arrows. Shooting bareshaft is one of the best tuning tools for me. The unfletched arrow will show you exactly how the arrow comes off the bow. If your unfletched and fletched hit together at 20 yds your fixed BH will too.

 

[kyler1945]

I’m all in on ethics half outs for most folks wanting to increase arrow weight, and %foc, while still shooting whatever arrow they want. Honesty, it’s the easiest and most economical path forward.

Shaft diameter does affect penetration. The ‘threshold’ if you’ll call it that, is smaller than the broadhead ferrule diameter. But remember, as the broadhead cuts through skin and bone and other matter, it tends to close back on itself. The smaller the shaft, less friction is applied to it as it goes through, decreasing the amount of energy needed to overcome the friction. Is it the deal breaker? Like all of the other variables, it’s just one to consider.

I am of the belief that a half out is the minimum(full blown footer being optimal) if you’re building heavy arrows and high %foc. If you hit ribs, a heavy arrow built with junky components will blow right through. But if you hit something that the extra weight will help you, the components will need to be able to withstand the increase forces being applied to the front of the arrow. See first paragraph above for the short easy out.

For your testing, I’d have a single 300 spine and 340ish spine arrow cut to length, with the ethics stainless half out installed with epoxy. Take your care to square the arrow shaft properly just as if you’re building the arrow as a finished product. Then I’d get the field point test kit, and shoot each arrow bare shaft, nock tuned with each of the tip weights until you find what works best. Then buy broadhead in that weight. Honestly, you should find tuning pretty easy with 100-200 grains with that setup(200-300 total grains up front). Once you’ve figured out which spine tunes well, buy a dozen. Bare shaft/nock tune with the field point you’ve decided on, then fletch them and nock tune again if necessary.

I bought a dozen of the black eagle deep impacts with adjustable footer system. It’s overkill for whitetail woods for sure. But I wanted to build a heavy duty micro diameter setup for western hunting. My current arrows with field points and exodus fly together out to 50 yards no issue. But I want to build something a little tougher, less prone to wind drift, and can bare shaft/nock/insert tune. Not cheap or necessary. But I like tinkering.

I personally wouldn’t push arrow weight to 500 with most of that up front, and use inserts only. It should work most of the time, until it doesn’t. Ethics half outs (there are several other brands too if you have some sort of loyalty) are the answer for the fellow who just wants to glue and shoot.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

2. Take your nock out. Put a drill bit down the shaft. Put your finger over the back of the arrow and use the bouncing drill bit to knock the insert out. I don’t know about proper but it works well. learned it from archerytalk
4. I have had good results with QAD exodus but haven’t tried many other fixed blades so I don’t have much to compare to. I got a free sample of a tooth of the arrow broadhead. They’re made from a sold rod of steel. I am excited to give that a shot but no more tags left so it’ll be awhile.

 

[kyler1945]

Hard quartering to. 7-8 yards away from the ground. 200lb deer. Broadhead hit just forward of ridge of the bone. Penetrated roughly 1/2” thick bone at that point, with one blade cutting through the edge of the bone. Exited the bone and entered the scapula at the bottom near the joint, again about 1/2” thick. Split the scapula and traveled through the entire chest cavity. Cut both lungs, the heart, major blood vessels, liver, and exited just behind last rib on off side(cut in the rib from one blade but not all the way through). Arrow buried to the fletching, and when he dropped to run, the fore side ribs sheared the arrow about 10” in front of the fletching. 2/3 blades still shaving sharp upon cleanup.

300spine victory arrow, ethics 100gr ss half out, 125 exodus full blade. 510gr, 70lb 30” draw, roughly 270fps.

Would I have preferred a broadside shot? Yes. Would I have preferred to hit on either side of the bone given I was willing to take the shot? Yes. Did I have any concern loosing an arrow? Nope.

Heavy arrows aren’t a crutch for other shortcomings. But there is no downside to increasing arrow mass in whitetail hunting situations. That’s deer number 5 with this setup. I lost a doe to a random thunderstorm that washed up blood trail overnight. The other four ran less than 150 yards with blood trails that anyone could follow. I’ll take the trade off of fist sized holes when everything is perfect, for 3 razor sharp blades going the entire way through a rib cage every time no matter what.


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[Weldabeast]

Hard quartering to. 7-8 yards away from the ground. 200lb deer. Broadhead hit just forward of ridge of the bone. Penetrated roughly 1/2” thick bone at that point, with one blade cutting through the edge of the bone. Exited the bone and entered the scapula at the bottom near the joint, again about 1/2” thick. Split the scapula and traveled through the entire chest cavity. Cut both lungs, the heart, major blood vessels, liver, and exited just behind last rib on off side(cut in the rib from one blade but not all the way through). Arrow buried to the fletching, and when he dropped to run, the fore side ribs sheared the arrow about 10” in front of the fletching. 2/3 blades still shaving sharp upon cleanup.

300spine victory arrow, ethics 100gr ss half out, 125 exodus full blade. 510gr, 70lb 30” draw, roughly 270fps.

Would I have preferred a broadside shot? Yes. Would I have preferred to hit on either side of the bone given I was willing to take the shot? Yes. Did I have any concern loosing an arrow? Nope.

Heavy arrows aren’t a crutch for other shortcomings. But there is no downside to increasing arrow mass in whitetail hunting situations. That’s deer number 5 with this setup. I lost a doe to a random thunderstorm that washed up blood trail overnight. The other four ran less than 150 yards with blood trails that anyone could follow. I’ll take the trade off of fist sized holes when everything is perfect, for 3 razor sharp blades going the entire way through a rib cage every time no matter what.


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I have 2 blade and 3 blade tips so take this for what it is...... Ashby reports also show that a 2 blade consistently out penetrated 3 blade on heavy bone.....

 

[Bwhana]

Ethics systems seems to be one of the best kept secrets in archery. Once I get a new bow in 2020 and get back to regular archery from the xbow world, his shop will be my next stop. Fortunate to live a few miles away and can try before I buy there.

 

[smcchevy]

Soak the insert end of arrow in acetone before you use the drill bit tip, just did a half dozen that way.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Soak the insert end of arrow in acetone before you use the drill bit tip, just did a half dozen that way.

This is okay to do? I always thought you didn’t want to use a lot of acetone on carbon arrows. I just use a little on a cloth to remove fletching and wrap adhesive.

 

[Weldabeast]

Question for carbon arrow builders

All the previous arrows ive put together i have used gold tip tip grip glue. It holds awesome but ive really been tinkering alot lately. I have been looking at the hot melt for ease of switching things up. Searching the internet comes up with some people saying its not good and others say its...

saddlehunter.com

 

[smcchevy]

This is okay to do? I always thought you didn’t want to use a lot of acetone on carbon arrows. I just use a little on a cloth to remove fletching and wrap adhesive.

I only soak them for 5 minutes or so, just enough to start breaking down the glue.

I actually prefer hot melt in general, easy to change inserts.

 

[BriarJumper]

I learned about all your queztions by watching Troy on The Ranch Fairy, on you tube. Im slow so I had to watch his videos 4 or 5 times to figure it out.

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[DaWiz9578]

I learned about all your queztions by watching Troy on The Ranch Fairy, on you tube. Im slow so I had to watch his videos 4 or 5 times to figure it out.

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Ranch fairy is a great resource. I reached out to troy and hes responded quickly to several questions. Super nice guy willing to help anyone out. Troy's starting point response below.

"Here’s the easiest thing - get your arrows right first!!
Buy (2) 300’s and (2) 250 spine arrows you like (shop has easy) and have stock inserts installed.
Then do this.

You can get the heavy field point kit at ethics archery.
Once you have a “recipe” you can run heavy broadhead or insert and lighter broadhead.
It’s like a recipe. But you want a normal weight arrow and all the rest of the weight up front. Don’t buy intentionally “heavy” shafts.
We’ll worry about glue on and screw in later!!
Bare shaft nock tune with random points. Both arrow spines.
Holler if you need more help. One step at a time"

Once you get the field point set you just shoot one arrow with 100gr and other (same spine) with 125. Which flies better? Now go to 150 against 125 and so on. When you get the closest to straight tweak your bow poundage slightly to fine tune it. I ended up with 250 spine 300gr tip at 67# draw and 300 spine 250gr tip at 64#. Next I'll be backing up to 10 15 20 yds and fine tuning. Once I have that figured out I'll know what spine, front end grains that flies well and where my bow needs to be at to be most accurate. It will be a fun arrow build from start to finish. Cant wait to have a quiver of sledge hammers.

Good luck!



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[slonstdy]

Ranch fairy is a great resource. I reached out to troy and hes responded quickly to several questions. Super nice guy willing to help anyone out. Troy's starting point response below.

"Here’s the easiest thing - get your arrows right first!!
Buy (2) 300’s and (2) 250 spine arrows you like (shop has easy) and have stock inserts installed.
Then do this.

You can get the heavy field point kit at ethics archery.
Once you have a “recipe” you can run heavy broadhead or insert and lighter broadhead.
It’s like a recipe. But you want a normal weight arrow and all the rest of the weight up front. Don’t buy intentionally “heavy” shafts.
We’ll worry about glue on and screw in later!!
Bare shaft nock tune with random points. Both arrow spines.
Holler if you need more help. One step at a time"

Once you get the field point set you just shoot one arrow with 100gr and other (same spine) with 125. Which flies better? Now go to 150 against 125 and so on. When you get the closest to straight tweak your bow poundage slightly to fine tune it. I ended up with 250 spine 300gr tip at 67# draw and 300 spine 250gr tip at 64#. Next I'll be backing up to 10 15 20 yds and fine tuning. Once I have that figured out I'll know what spine, front end grains that flies well and where my bow needs to be at to be most accurate. It will be a fun arrow build from start to finish. Cant wait to have a quiver of sledge hammers.

Good luck!



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Yes sir, gonna build me some adult arrows! lol. Been watching him the last few evenings and he's got me laughing the whole time. Best part is he builds 'em to kill things which is what we want them to do and do efficiently. Will try his method cause I like his madness.

 

[michigandrake]

Applying heat directly to carbon arrows is damaging from what I've researched. Is there an easy diy way to do this without spending money for an insert removal tool?

Heat a field tip (not red hot), screw it into your insert and let the heat transfer. Twist with a vise grip and eventually the adhesive will let go without damaging the carbon.

 

[Weldabeast]

Manufacture recommends running under hot water to release the hot melt

 

[Gamover06]

I have done just about everything you can to remove an insert and the only method that makes me comfortable to use the arrow at the end of the day is putting a drill bit in the shaft. I tap a bag to the end of the shaft and swing like $(*# . I have heated up a field point and had arrows start to twist which showed me 2 things: I over heated and the other is heated the insert can compromise the glue. I personally don't need that running through my head while using the arrows. Acetone breaks glue down also and that is how carbon is held together so I wont soak an arrow in that.

I get not everyone can afford it but if I have 6 arrows and I want to increase weight then I will buy 6 new arrows. $60 bucks isn't worth loosing an animal due to a compromised arrow. Also if you are removing an insert to increase weight is your current arrow stiff enough to handle the extra weight. Most arrows built buy a shop is a no. They will typically build for speed so you will not be able to add to much weight before your arrow is to weak. I would rather have a stiff arrow because they tune better.

A lot of people read heavy arrow and high FOC and just start adding weight but you need to make sure that you can add weight before making the switch. When I started adding weight I matched the arrow to the added weight then couldn't make any changes because I would have had a weak shaft. Once you start down the rabbit hole you are going to want to keep going. I make sure I have room to add another 50 or 75 grains if I want to later. Yes you will be on the stiff side but your set up will still shoot great.

Current set up Black Eagle Carnivore 250 cut to 29 inches. 100 grain brass insert, 150 grain COC broadhead, 4 vanetec vanes, 5 inch arrow wrap (578 total grains with 18% FOC I believe). Shooting Bear Arena 34 at 70 pounds 29.5 draw.....I am stiff but have the ability to add 75 grains and still be just fine. Currently I am shooting better then I ever have and my bow is crazy quiet.

 

[slonstdy]

Did you ever have a preconceived notion of how an event would play out before it took place? Happened to me today. Here's a teaser, I've been overdosing on the ranch fairy videos on arrow building...

I went to the archery shop today with the intention of picking up a few different arrow shafts to take home and bare shaft tune in various weights to determine what flies best. The two "young" fellas behind the counter looked at me like I was nuts and asked what am I trying to do so I told them I'm experimenting and want to build arrows in the 500 - 600gr range. They reacted as if I insulted their manhood! First came the questions of "why?" "what purpose?" "what are you hunting?" Then I was told stories of 50 yd pass through shots on elk with 400gr arrows and if that arrow weight takes down elk then it'll easily pass through a deer. And finally I got the"they'll never fly right" and "we tried that." Thrown in there somewhere was the fact that it's almost impossible to find broad heads heavier than 150gr. The ranch fairy said this would happen, lol.

Then they asked what bow I'm shooting and down that path we went. When I said that I don't see much improvements performance wise from my "old" bow to the latest offerings they agreed that speed and letoff are only marginally better but the $1100 one is more "efficient" so it shoots faster. They practically forced me to shoot it so I took it for a test drive and told them they're right, it is the greatest bow I have ever shot when in reality it felt good but no way on God's green earth did it knock my socks off or blow me away. Yes it's a tad smaller and lighter and incrementally smoother on the draw and shot cycle but again only just. I like to say "how much rounder can you make a wheel?"

So I left the shop without arrows and convinced I don't "need" a new bow.