I have a hand climber top so this really interests me. Could you explain your climbing technique for doing this? I am having a hard time visualizing how this can be done safely.
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Climbing methods....trying to cut down on weight
- Thread starter Dewey
- Start date
I have a hand climber top so this really interests me. Could you explain your climbing technique for doing this? I am having a hard time visualizing how this can be done safely.
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- Sep 28, 2014
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- 3,096
justsomedude
Well-Known Member
Foot straps on hand Climber seat. A little leash connecting the seat to your harness so you don't lose it
Stand on platform and raise your tether, hang from harness and lift the platform.
You can't fall. You could get the platform out of whack though.
If you carry a long rope and an ATC descender you can Rappel down. Use the platform to stand on while hunting,
It's a very efficient setup
Foot straps on hand Climber seat. A little leash connecting the seat to your harness so you don't lose it
Stand on platform and raise your tether, hang from harness and lift the platform.
You can't fall. You could get the platform out of whack though.
If you carry a long rope and an ATC descender you can Rappel down. Use the platform to stand on while hunting,
It's a very efficient setup
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For a platform, I'm sure they will work good, but I don't think they will save you much weight. They're about a pound per step. If you can find some ameristeps I'd at least give them a shot. That will cut your platform weight in half. Its always good to have as an option at least.
Tony
Member
Dewey
I'm new to saddle hunting and having this same debate with myself. I don't want to add so much weight that I'm back at the weight of a hang on.
My thoughts are mornings-walking in in the dark and trying to be quiet-give me my hawk heliums-ya there heavy but I can have them up quickly and quietly with just a small headlamp-it took me about 10 times with the heliums to get fast and quiet-short learning curve. Setting up in the dark I'll trade weight for ease of use and quiet.
Afternoons-im still working this out. I have a metilous ladder and maybe I'll try runninng two and girth hitching one to the tree climbing 3-5 steps then moving to the next one removing #1, climbing then setting #1 back up, climb repeat. This would be about two pounds plus any platform weight. I thing a Yates big wall ladder would work better because it uses a spreader bar and I notice the steps getting a little tight when I get to the top of the metoilios ladder. I have access to a petzel grillon and ID so Im trying to make one of these work as a connection to my bridge and rappell down-(in the dark remember-the aiders and speed steps seem to be the most work going down)
I'm new to saddle hunting and having this same debate with myself. I don't want to add so much weight that I'm back at the weight of a hang on.
My thoughts are mornings-walking in in the dark and trying to be quiet-give me my hawk heliums-ya there heavy but I can have them up quickly and quietly with just a small headlamp-it took me about 10 times with the heliums to get fast and quiet-short learning curve. Setting up in the dark I'll trade weight for ease of use and quiet.
Afternoons-im still working this out. I have a metilous ladder and maybe I'll try runninng two and girth hitching one to the tree climbing 3-5 steps then moving to the next one removing #1, climbing then setting #1 back up, climb repeat. This would be about two pounds plus any platform weight. I thing a Yates big wall ladder would work better because it uses a spreader bar and I notice the steps getting a little tight when I get to the top of the metoilios ladder. I have access to a petzel grillon and ID so Im trying to make one of these work as a connection to my bridge and rappell down-(in the dark remember-the aiders and speed steps seem to be the most work going down)
Tony
Member
As far as the climber seat- I bought one-but I'm not sold yet. I used my petzl grillon girthed around the tree tied to my bridge and that helped a lot, because it didn't bind like a Prussk/blakes hitch.
My thought was this-it seems significantly heavier / larger than the Xop hang on seat, I have and am working on as a platform.
Using it to climb I tried strapping in on the bottomg to "set" it-this requires some ingenuity, as your bent way down/hanging of the side trying to tighten the strap.
And the biggest disadvantage I found was that I would have been still hunting for trees-as you still have to remove the seat to get around branches
I only messed around with the climber seat for about a day though, so others may have more experience with it than me
My thought was this-it seems significantly heavier / larger than the Xop hang on seat, I have and am working on as a platform.
Using it to climb I tried strapping in on the bottomg to "set" it-this requires some ingenuity, as your bent way down/hanging of the side trying to tighten the strap.
And the biggest disadvantage I found was that I would have been still hunting for trees-as you still have to remove the seat to get around branches
I only messed around with the climber seat for about a day though, so others may have more experience with it than me
one sticking
The flaw in it is having to get back down to release the buckle...three steps forward, two steps back.
Get rid of the longer part of your lone wolf strap and feed some 1" tubular webbing you can get from any climb store. (same stuff lone wolf strap is made of)
1st thing is to make a longer strap (larger trees), then tie a larger loop. I even taped mine up with a bit of electrical tape to stiffen it up a little
This larger loop allows you to twist your versa button off the strap from the top, without disengaging the buckle.
A Tree Quickie or screw lock on your tether make going around limbs quick, I prefer the quickie
I haven't tried one sticking in a saddle though, just a climbing harness/sit-drag
Here I am doing it maybe my 3rd or 4th time on a limbless tree last year to give you an idea of what I mean by twisting my stick off the strap
25-30 ft in 6 minutes for the weight of one stick. (Aider and Ropemans are also crucial)
(sorry for the crappy gopro wide view. only camera I had)
The flaw in it is having to get back down to release the buckle...three steps forward, two steps back.
Get rid of the longer part of your lone wolf strap and feed some 1" tubular webbing you can get from any climb store. (same stuff lone wolf strap is made of)
1st thing is to make a longer strap (larger trees), then tie a larger loop. I even taped mine up with a bit of electrical tape to stiffen it up a little
This larger loop allows you to twist your versa button off the strap from the top, without disengaging the buckle.
A Tree Quickie or screw lock on your tether make going around limbs quick, I prefer the quickie
I haven't tried one sticking in a saddle though, just a climbing harness/sit-drag
Here I am doing it maybe my 3rd or 4th time on a limbless tree last year to give you an idea of what I mean by twisting my stick off the strap
25-30 ft in 6 minutes for the weight of one stick. (Aider and Ropemans are also crucial)
(sorry for the crappy gopro wide view. only camera I had)
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Ontariofarmer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2015
- Messages
- 5,254
The reality is sometimes we exaggerate weight savings. I do agree with Red - Ameristeps would drop some weight and bulk I think I may like them just as much as my platform that I used last year. They don't seem too uncomfortable to a sitter/ leaner. For someone who leans most of the time I guess a platform may be better. I run with aiders on every stick so I can carry one less stick than you. With two aiders on two sticks I get 14 or 16 feet. Less weight quick and not too difficult for a 59 year old. A third stick will get me 20-24 feet... as high as I care to go.
I am sure you have dropped some weight ... no safety harness, a stand - 15 pounds... a Kestrel 5 pounds with rope. Perhaps a 25 percent reduction. A Kestrel is less bulky. That is why I like the short muddy pro sticks... fast, a bit heavier and not bulky. The Hawk sticks are good too but bulkier... longer. unless you cut them down.
A Kestrel is safer than a hang on and just as comfortable or more . It is quieter and I like to shoot from behind the tree for cover.
So if you went to three sticks with aiders and ameristeps you would drop about 5 pounds
I think that on hunting beast if I recall correctly you said you were carrying nearly 40 pounds I think... correct me if I am wrong.
I think you can easily hit 20 pounds with ameristeps and aiders on every stick.
I am considering a battery heated coat to drop weight late season.
So ameristeps.. 2 pounds
Pack 2 pounds
crossbow... 6 pounds
3 sticks and aiders... about 10 pounds
Kestrel 5 pounds...
misc... 2 pounds water calls snacks gps knife
With my weapon I am still at 27 pounds to 20 feet. Without my weapon and only 15 feet I am at 17 pounds
Most people are not counting their weapon in the weight calculation. I have to use a crossbow... heavier. My excalibur micro is about 6 pounds.
If I go to one stick climbing I can drop another 3 pounds. I have tried it but I like at least two sticks and then climb with a the one stick method.
For rifle hunting I could shoot 360 without strapping the hand climber down or moving it around the tree. It weighs more than a xop platform but not much. And you lose the weight of a climbing system. In areas with a lot of tall straight trees. Going around limbs is possible but would be much easier with a three step aider. You could use the same aider to lock the stand down from the bottom also. It comes with some aggravation but every type of stand has challenges and limitations.
one sticking
The flaw in it is having to get back down to release the buckle...three steps forward, two steps back.
Get rid of the longer part of your lone wolf strap and feed some 1" tubular webbing you can get from any climb store. (same stuff lone wolf strap is made of)
1st thing is to make a longer strap (larger trees), then tie a larger loop. I even taped mine up with a bit of electrical tape to stiffen it up a little
This larger loop allows you to twist your versa button off the strap from the top, without disengaging the buckle.
A Tree Quickie or screw lock on your tether make going around limbs quick, I prefer the quickie
I haven't tried one sticking in a saddle though, just a climbing harness/sit-drag
Here I am doing it maybe my 3rd or 4th time on a limbless tree last year to give you an idea of what I mean by twisting my stick off the strap
25-30 ft in 6 minutes for the weight of one stick. (Aider and Ropemans are also crucial)
(sorry for the crappy gopro wide view. only camera I had)
Going to a saddle from a hang doesn't necessarily reduce the weight you pack in. (you're seeing this now obviously, but it's not so obvious in the beginning)
1stick or SRT will put you packing anywhere from 3-6lbs for climbing gear. Besides spurs, I can't see a faster way trip up the tree than these two.
Climbing with 1stick doesn't make much sense if you have to go back down and loosen the buckle. Convert to static 9mm rope. When you pull the rope over itself behind the versa button, it will cinch down. The typical advice is to add two overhand knots to prevent it from slipping. I don't do this while 1stick climbing for two reasons. I'm tied in at all times with my tether, and I can hang and reach down and simply pull up on the tag end of rope to pull the stick up to me to reset. It holds just fine. If you don't have a rappel rope on your person easily accessible while climbing, I would recommend a lanyard from you to the top of the stick. a 4' piece of paracord works just fine. Once at height, most folks are using the step as a portion of their shooting platform. I would absolutely recommend tying the rope off with the overhand knots at this point - it doesn't cost you any time or effort at height.
I have a muddy 20" stick with two step homemade aider and rope/versa button mod. I can place the top step 7-7.5' from the ground, climb up to top and set tether and hang to side in harness. Each subsequent set is about 3.5-4' in height gain. I'm tall, but even someone a foot shorter than me should be able to get 2.5-3' each set.
Couple keys: aiders properly set to your stride (Longer aiders don't help you, you can only reach so far), rope mod with properly sized rope that will bind on itself behind the versa button, linesmans belt to go around branches, and being comfortable hanging in your harness.
I would be willing to bet once you're comfortable doing the dance, you can be at height faster than setting multiple sticks.
Not sure if you were responding to me with the quote but I do climb one stick. I mentioned the "flaw" because the few you tube videos Ive seen on one-stick is guys climbing back down to reach their buckle. It actually turned me off from it until I decided to try and figure out how to do it better.
As for the rope mod, I just don't trust it without a half hitch backup. And once I'm on my stick I am sometimes climbing past my tether and a stick failure at that point would really hurt. Modifying the lonewolf strap may be a little heavier, but its safer imo.
I just watched the video. Pretty nifty, I misunderstood what you were saying. I think you've got a great method.
yeah and likewise, the rope mod is fine as long as you tend your tether up the tree. I don't
...heck I sometimes put my stick over my tether, so yeah I climb past my tether. don't tell anybody
withakri
Member
I've been using ernie's platform or a single muddy stick and climbing with a rope. Gear includes saddle, rope, throwline, throwweight, ropewrench, foot ascender, knee ascender (haas), 8mm sewn eye and eye, hitch climber pulley, helmet and a few cranford steps. You are wearing the saddle, helmet, foot ascender and knee ascender.
justsomedude
Well-Known Member
If you want to be responsible while acting irresponsibly...consider a dynamic tether. It makes a HUGE difference in catching a fall.yeah and likewise, the rope mod is fine as long as you tend your tether up the tree. I don't
well with a set of sticks I never climbed tethered. I would linemans belt at the top of each stick. I treat one sticking same as a set of sticks, difference being while I'm retrieving the stick
solid straps. 3 points of contact.
I'm not irresponsible, I'm pretty safe. My previous post was me trying to make my accusation of the unhitched rope mod less "accusational" because there isn't any thing wrong with it as long as you have a tight tether.
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justsomedude
Well-Known Member
I'm just messing with you
But climbing above a static tether is a bad idea. You should do the force fall math sometime. If you set your tether and then put your stick above it and climb up how far?
Even just climbing 2' over your tether with a little slack...you're dropping 5' static and it's going to hurt
But climbing above a static tether is a bad idea. You should do the force fall math sometime. If you set your tether and then put your stick above it and climb up how far?
Even just climbing 2' over your tether with a little slack...you're dropping 5' static and it's going to hurt
I'm just messing with you
But climbing above a static tether is a bad idea. You should do the force fall math sometime. If you set your tether and then put your stick above it and climb up how far?
Even just climbing 2' over your tether with a little slack...you're dropping 5' static and it's going to hurt
yeah I know if I fall its bad, but my tether is only there to allow me to hang and retrieve/set my stick. Ive never used a tether for "climbing" on sticks is my point....just a linemans belt when setting the next stick.
Does anybody tether all the way up a tree when using 4-5 sticks? I didn't, so climbing above a static tether is probably better than climbing without a tether at all.
Ill take my tether off the tree though while I'm climbing my stick if its better. Back to the basic three points of contact, because I trust my sticks
but I understand what your saying about dynamic rope. just I don't plan on falling, and its predator camo rope....roar
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