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Falling with slack in your line

Weldabeast said:
Ok.....so if u are standing on something tethered in and all of the sudden u have nothing under ur feet and u got slack....u aren't exactly falling straight down, correct?....gravity is pulling u down but ur tether (wether it has a screamer or not) is gonna pull u in a slight arc and slam u into the tree. There's more going on than just a straight unobstructed vertical fall....even more so if u were rotating around the tree or something like that.....in my mind a fall with lots of slack is gonna slam u and ur lower body with suddenly stop and ur upper body will wanna keep going and u either break in 2 or ur upper body will keep going in it's intended path and u end up upsidedown and hopefully u arent knocked out and don't slip out. I'm sure every situation will have different results....but that's what would happen in my imagination.
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I would like to say yes and no. If you are standing on a platform or stick with slack and it fails, you could fall straight down, you could fall backwards, you could fall side ways and slam into the tree. It is chaotic at best and the description you gave is a great example of why I have no urge to have slack in my system and to avoid any excess slack for a fall because in the scenario you described, the screamer will do nothing to save your upper body ie your spine from the damage it’s about to receive.
 
Zacrowsl said:
Even in a straight vertical fall with a climbing harness in which less than 1800lbs of force is generated to the climber(which is TMA and OSHA allowance) would STILL result in a seriously injured climber. His back would be wrecked. Here is a video
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We all saw this video a few weeks ago in fact the moderators created a thumb link to it. If you watch this video it says even a RCH with a dynamic lanyard would still equal likely injury in a fall like these. Other variations not mentioned in this video are the fall factor, the total weight of the person falling and the length of the fall. In my mind none of it makes falling in a saddle more forgiving just because you use a screamer which might not reduce force if it’s already been loaded before you fall, in fact there is potential it tears away and creates a secondary dynamic event. Again I just don’t want someone watching your video and thinking it somehow makes them safer while one sticking just because they have a screamer. I am done with my input, because we all covered this a couple weeks ago on a different thread. Good luck with your video man but I wouldn’t be giving away screamers and advertising it as a safer way to fall.
 
beej32 said:
If I were to use this (please note that as the reason I posted the question), it would be the sole connection between my rch and the tree strap. I’m basically looking for a suitable fall-arrest solution if I were to use a rock harness in a treestand. The alternative would be a 5-point safety harness (hss) attached to the tree strap (or lifeline on my presets)
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In that instance you’re already loading the lanyard, my opinion is you’d be better suited in a traditional fall harness and lanyard. Since the idea is to catch you in a fall rather than hold you in the air like a traditional saddle hunter. But like anything it’s at your own risk to decide. I just know that those types of devices aren’t created to be constantly loaded but rather be there to catch us in a dynamic event.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
When you say kong ascenders, are you referring to the kong duck? Is it not meant as a rope grab on 8mm to 13mm rope? Was that not what it is used for when it’s on a tether? As far as boat cams on sticks and platforms, I don’t use them. I’m old school and use a normal pull cam buckle or an OCB. I cannot speak about the mad rock, I prefer a gri gri plus. But I do understand what you’re saying. None of those you mentioned are as important as keeping slack out of your system in my mind. I take the recommendations in your video and your post here as it makes falls in a saddle safe if you use a screamer and that is untrue and a dangerous assumption. That’s what I know and I think that’s what Kyle is saying. Not being harsh just don’t want new saddle hunters seeing your video as there magic save all while learning to one stick. I hope that makes sense.
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A duck is not meant to be used as a mechanical prusik. . And when I worked for another company that sold them they even sent a bull $*&* video to us on how we're supposed run the rope through our carabiner and use it similar to a lifting aid in our application. Bec several failed and wouldn't grab any more. Look I said in the video....should you use this. I don't know makes me feel better tho. Did I say this makes a fall with a saddle safe? No. Could it potentially help? Absolutely. Is reducing slack in your tether important? Yes. But that's not always a option with these scenarios presented in the video. I'm over it. It can't hurt. Good luck this season
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
We all saw this video a few weeks ago in fact the moderators created a thumb link to it. If you watch this video it says even a RCH with a dynamic lanyard would still equal likely injury in a fall like these. Other variations not mentioned in this video are the fall factor, the total weight of the person falling and the length of the fall. In my mind none of it makes falling in a saddle more forgiving just because you use a screamer which might not reduce force if it’s already been loaded before you fall, in fact there is potential it tears away and creates a secondary dynamic event. Again I just don’t want someone watching your video and thinking it somehow makes them safer while one sticking just because they have a screamer. I am done with my input, because we all covered this a couple weeks ago on a different thread. Good luck with your video man but I wouldn’t be giving away screamers and advertising it as a safer way to fall.
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Did you even read what I wrote? I specifically said it would still severely injure you
 
I left a similar comment on the video about this yesterday.

this is the only video on YouTube I can remember actually raising the concern of falling into a slack line while one sticking. For that reason I am glad it was posted and give kudos to the poster.

that being said, the screamer being promoted in the video can be perceived as being as a catch all for one stickers whose stick may fail. This is really a problem. A hunting saddle is not a fall arrest device and not designed or tested to absorb a shock load to the human body.

the main concern is that Joe oneSticker will climb with slack in their line, but because watching a video like this, think they are insured because they have a screamer in their system.

since that screamer has been under constant load on a tether it very well likely not deploy like you think it will, and that assertion is straight from the horse’s mouth from the email chain [mention]Fl Canopy Stalker [/mention] had with the manufacturer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SRT Saddle Hunter said:
Your talking in circles...you just said it will reduce fall but isn't safe...ridiculous
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There is zero proof if used as your primary connection on a tether that it will reduce force by any measurable amount. If we were to already have weight loaded into the screamer, the stitches could tear away from as much as a swing from a 220 lbs plus pound man. It could also tear away completely in a fall and then extend providing a secondary dynamic event. We have no way to prove the forces it would generate or if it would help at all because there is no testing and the manufacturers all say it is being used outside of how it was intended. So Kyle is saying it could reduce force but even if it does reduce force, it doesn’t make the fall safe while in a saddle.
 
kyler1945 said:
At 3:20ish in the video you say exactly that.

it’s not the only thing that’s incorrect, but since you specifically point this one out, it bears repeating.
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kyler1945 said:
At 3:20ish in the video you say exactly that.

it’s not the only thing that’s incorrect, but since you specifically point this one out, it bears repeating.
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I said that a 5 point safety harness works in this manner. And when I say this does the same thing I clearly say and am talking about it opening the stitches to reduce shock. I maybe could have been more clear but your interpretation isn't the intent. But hey I'm done. See ya
 
May I just add to this conversation? @Zacrowsl stated that we use a lot of equipment that is out of spec while saddle hunting so does that mean adding another piece of out of spec equipment to our system that we will be safer than before? Doesn't make much sense to me.
 
Straight up, the bottom line is that if you concoct a scenario where you can fall into your saddle 4-5ft you messed up a long time ago. There is no magic pill. Incorporating or promoting the use of of a screamer into the system implies that this 4-5 ft is even remotely acceptable.

I wish there were more videos out there on YouTube convincing people not to one stick and providing the reasons why. Then showing them if they choose to do it, use a linesman belt. I talked myself out of one sticking like 3 different times and the only reason I choose to do it now is because I have developed a way I feel that I may have brought the risk level pretty comparable to climbing sticks.
 
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_Dario said:
Straight up, the bottom line is that if you concoct a scenario where you can fall into your saddle 4-5ft you messed up a long time ago. There is no magic pill. Incorporating or promoting the use of of a screamer into the system implies that this 4-5 ft is even remotely acceptable.

I wish there were more videos out there on YouTube convincing people not to one stick and providing the reasons why. Then showing them if they choose to do it, use a linesman belt. I talked myself out of one sticking like 3 different times and the only reason I choose to do it now is because I have developed a way I feel that I may have brought the risk level pretty comparable to climbing sticks.
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Yeah. It's easy and no extra cost. After you step into your aider, put your lineman's belt around the tree. You have a little slack in your tether, but not 3-5 feet. Then once your lineman's belt is around the tree continue to climb like you were on sticks with your belt.
 
Here’s an even better way to put it.

you shouldn’t use a screamer in your system while one sticking for the same reason you don’t wear a parachute while one sticking.

Both are useless if you are climbing properly with a linesman belt and always moving your anchor up. One is just more intuitive than the other.
 
_Dario said:
Straight up, the bottom line is that if you concoct a scenario where you can fall into your saddle 4-5ft you messed up a long time ago. There is no magic pill. Incorporating or promoting the use of of a screamer into the system implies that this 4-5 ft is even remotely acceptable.

I wish there were more videos out there on YouTube convincing people not to one stick and providing the reasons why. Then showing them if they choose to do it, use a linesman belt. I talked myself out of one sticking like 3 different times and the only reason I choose to do it now is because I have developed a way I feel that I may have brought the risk level pretty comparable to climbing sticks.
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But, but, but......u gotta 1 stick to be a cool kid. Hahaha
 
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