For you guys that rappell down your tree....

[Ex Umbra]

If I were gonna rappell down my tree there's no way I'd carry a double length of main line. No need to carry the weight. I'd carry a single length of main line and an equal length of 2mm accessory cord. There's a slick way to rig a rope for single line rappell but the rope is retrievable from the ground. See pic below for how to rig this way.

Then all I'd need was a length of sacrificial rope or webbing and a threaded chain link or decending ring to anchor on the tree or limb. If it was a tree I hunted out of frequently I'd make an anchor out of log chain and a threaded chain link which would be safe to anchor to for many years to come.

If you want advice the knot I would tie for the loop would be an alpine butterfly.
To connect the 2mm to the main line...I'd tie an overhand knot in the end of the main line. Then I would thread the 2mm through the overhand on the main line then take the 2mm and tie a barrel knot around the main line.

This technique may be old news around here....I dunno but recently I have read where several of you guys mentioned double line rappelling out of the tree.

This trick will save you weight and bulk with your gear.
Hope it helps someone.

-Umbra

 

[davesonic444]

Will a threaded chain link be safe for 260# man?

 

[Ex Umbra]

Will a threaded chain link be safe for 260# man?

Yes, Get a bigger one. The work load rating should be stamped on the link itself or at least on it's tag. If all else fails the manufacturer web site should list the rated work load for each size. Get one rated for double your body weight. On top of that The manufacturer engineers in plenty of safety factor.

Here's a page with a generic list of chain link sizes and work loads. Wow, they are stronger than I remembered. By the time you got one big enough for you main line to fit in, you'd have plenty of strength in the link.

http://www.endurancehardware.com/connecting-hardware-zinc-plated-quick-links.html

Hope that helps,
Umbra

 

[JoMat]

Yes, Get a bigger one. The work load rating should be stamped on the link itself or at least on it's tag. If all else fails the manufacturer web site should list the rated work load for each size. Get one rated for double your body weight. On top of that The manufacturer engineers in plenty of safety factor.

Here's a page with a generic list of chain link sizes and work loads. Wow, they are stronger than I remembered. By the time you got one big enough for you main line to fit in, you'd have plenty of strength in the link.

http://www.endurancehardware.com/connecting-hardware-zinc-plated-quick-links.html

Hope that helps,
Umbra

Hi Umbra,

This might be a totally naive question - I don't know much about climbing, and most of what I learned for my hunting tree climbing I picked up here and on youtube (now that I write it out it makes me wonder whether what I am doing is wise from an evolutionary point of view...)

Anyway, why not just loop the tail end of the rope directly through the carabiner and attach the accessory line to the carabiner as well? Is there a safety problem with this or why the more complex setup?

Thanks,
J.

 

[Ex Umbra]

Anyway, why not just loop the tail end of the rope directly through the carabiner and attach the accessory line to the carabiner as well? Is there a safety problem with this or why the more complex setup?

Thanks,
J.

Howdy J.
Help me understand what your proposing...
You said loop the rope through the caregiver.... And tie it to what??

 

[lukepighetti]

Ex Umbra, I'll take a stab.

figure 8 loop on the repel line
figure 8 loop on the haul line
carabiner connected to both and passing the tail end of the repel line

 

[JoMat]

Howdy J.
Help me understand what your proposing...
You said loop the rope through the caregiver.... And tie it to what??

OK, here is what I had planned to do (and don't forget I am a total amateur so don't hold back if this is stupid ):

- Tie a loop in the end of your rappelling rope (eight on a bight?)
- Click your carabiner to the loop
- Run the tail end of your rappelling rope through the carabiner to form the noose around the tree (this is basically how I believe most of us attach their tree tethers, only that here we additionally have a carabiner to reduce friction when we later pull the rope out of the tree)
- Attach your paracord/accessory line to the carabiner (or to the knot forming the loop)
- Rappell down on your main rope
- Pull at the accessory line. This should pull the carabiner out of the tree, which means you are removing your main rope from the tree

Ups, looks like I took too much time to write this

 

[Ex Umbra]

OK, here is what I had planned to do (and don't forget I am a total amateur so don't hold back if this is stupid ):

- Tie a loop in the end of your rappelling rope (eight on a bight?)
- Click your carabiner to the loop
- Run the tail end of your rappelling rope through the carabiner to form the noose around the tree (this is basically how I believe most of us attach their tree tethers, only that here we additionally have a carabiner to reduce friction when we later pull the rope out of the tree)
- Attach your paracord/accessory line to the carabiner (or to the knot forming the loop)
- Rappell down on your main rope
- Pull at the accessory line. This should pull the carabiner out of the tree, which means you are removing your main rope from the tree

Ups, looks like I took too much time to write this

That could work.
However I like the other way better with an anchor and a threaded chain link. Because your way there could (1) be a lot of friction between the tree and the rope which would/could make it hard to pull the rope
Down. Also (2) you would be a needlessly a abrading the whole length of your main line against the bark of the tree.

(I understand we use short ropes in saddle hunting and it doesn't break the bank to replace them. I come from a back ground where having to replace a rope could set you back $300 or even $600. )

 

[JoMat]

OK, so no safety concerns. Phew!

What you say absolutely makes sense. I dreamed this up originally just as a backup way to get out of the tree after one stick climbing (say in case I drop the stick), but then was contemplating to use it as my general way down, especially after finding this youtube video with a way to rappell only with a carabiner that looks really sweet (not Munster, the guy claims h came up with a new idea):

Just haven't gotten around to testing it in a safe environment yet...

 

[redsquirrel]

I don't understand your picture, it doesn't show what you are talking baout. I understand what you are saying because I do this all the time. I have a climbing line wrapped around the tree and hooked up with a delta screw link. I rappel down the single length of rope, and then pull the screw link down with a piece of paracord I hooked up to it while setting it up.

They make screw links that are climbing rated for those interested, I suggest using those. Here is an example: https://www.amazon.com/Camp-Oval-Quick-Link-Carabiner/dp/B005ULFKAY

 

[Ex Umbra]

OK, so no safety concerns. Phew!

What you say absolutely makes sense. I dreamed this up originally just as a backup way to get out of the tree after one stick climbing (say in case I drop the stick), but then was contemplating to use it as my general way down, especially after finding this youtube video with a way to rappell only with a carabiner that looks really sweet (not Munster, the guy claims h came up with a new idea):

Just haven't gotten around to testing it in a safe environment yet...

I wouldn't use a rappelling technique that has the rope rubbing on itself...again because of abrasion. But if your wanting to rappel with one carabiner, just do a carabiner wrap:

This illustration is a bit dramatic. You don't need that many wraps. 2, maybe 3 wraps at most. Do a bit of experimentation to see how much friction you need regarding your weight and rope diameter. The more wraps- the more friction.

 

[alukban]

I'm actually really afraid of heights and getting stuck. That's why I went with the use of saddles in the first place I did not go ahead with the saddle hunting thing before I figured a bullet proof way of getting down whenever I went up.

I currently climb with a LW handclimber seat and use that as my platform also. My tether goes all the way to the ground and I just let it dangle in case my seat/climber/platform gives way while climbing or when I am already at height.

Instead of a rapelling set up, I simply carry a loop of accessory line for use as a very long prusik. I would attach this to the safety tether that goes all the way to the ground and use it as a foot lock prusik climber.

 

[Ex Umbra]

I'm actually really afraid of heights and getting stuck. That's why I went with the use of saddles in the first place I did not go ahead with the saddle hunting thing before I figured a bullet proof way of getting down whenever I went up.

I currently climb with a LW handclimber seat and use that as my platform also. My tether goes all the way to the ground and I just let it dangle in case my seat/climber/platform gives way while climbing or when I am already at height.

Instead of a rapelling set up, I simply carry a loop of accessory line for use as a very long prusik. I would attach this to the safety tether that goes all the way to the ground and use it as a foot lock prusik climber.

Love your honesty. I'm scared of heights too unless I'm strapped into good gear!

You didn't ask for advice...but it's free.
Being that your scared of heights...I'd suggest that you did rappel down. Once you get a feel for rappelling...it will likely give you a large feeling of control despite your feet being off the ground. You can easily and in full control slowly lower to the ground on your full length tether.

 

[JoMat]

I wouldn't use a rappelling technique that has the rope rubbing on itself...again because of abrasion. But if your wanting to rappel with one carabiner, just do a carabiner wrap:

This illustration is a bit dramatic. You don't need that many wraps. 2, maybe 3 wraps at most. Do a bit of experimentation to see how much friction you need regarding your weight and rope diameter. The more wraps- the more friction.

As I don't have a lot of experience with climbing, how bad of an abrasion can I expect with rope on rope friction when rappelling? Like if I want to stay on the safe side, after how many rappels would you guesstimate I need to exchange a static rope to stay safe?

I had looked into the carabiner wrap for getting down the tree; naively, I though the problem with using it at 3 wraps would be the spin it induces while I descent (in my head I kinda saw myself spinning and bouncing into the tree a bunch of times on the way down). Am I completely overestimating the spin problem?

Man, I definitely need to find a climbing gym to try all of these options so I won't kill myself in the woods

 

[Ex Umbra]

As I don't have a lot of experience with climbing, how bad of an abrasion can I expect with rope on rope friction when rappelling? Like if I want to stay on the safe side, after how many rappels would you guesstimate I need to exchange a static rope to stay safe?

I had looked into the carabiner wrap for getting down the tree; naively, I though the problem with using it at 3 wraps would be the spin it induces while I descent (in my head I kinda saw myself spinning and bouncing into the tree a bunch of times on the way down). Am I completely overestimating the spin problem?

Man, I definitely need to find a climbing gym to try all of these options so I won't kill myself in the woods

Don't sweat it bro. I'll help you anyway I can.

No, rappelling on a carab wrap will not cause your body to spin as you decend.

If you use a hitch and carab to rappel that has the rope rubbing itself yes you'll do minor abrasion to the rope sheath itself with each decent. It will be minor per decent (in saddle hunting. A 400' decent is another story because heat from friction becomes an issue. You won't generate any heat to speak of in a 30ish foot decent.)

I can't tell you even an estimate of how many rappel before you need to replace the rope. But the good news is the outer sheath on a dynamic climbing rope or static rescue rope is only a teeny bit of the ropes overall strength. IIRC the sheath is like only 12ish percent of the ropes overall strength. So....you can fuzz up fibers (fray, but not rip, holes or tears) kinda heavy before you need to retire the rope.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask all the questions you want. I'm just strapped to a tree waiting on a deer to show up.
-Umbra

Wait...am I spelling "decent" wrong?

 

[alukban]

Love your honesty. I'm scared of heights too unless I'm strapped into good gear!

You didn't ask for advice...but it's free.
Being that your scared of heights...I'd suggest that you did rappel down. Once you get a feel for rappelling...it will likely give you a large feeling of control despite your feet being off the ground. You can easily and in full control slowly lower to the ground on your full length tether.

I'll give that simple carabiner rapel thing a try tonight

 

[justsomedude]

QUESTION:

I have an ATC. If I just make a long tether, what is the simplest way to rig it for retrieval (assuming there isn't a branch in the way)? I could just keep a separate rope just for Rappel.

Yesterday I realized I could just use my bow tow rope to pull down my tether after descending assuming my tether wouldn't be stuck

I generally don't go higher than 15'. I have been messing with all of these no stick aider climbs and it would be nice to just rappel down if it didn't become noisy/heavy/complicated/expensive

 

[Ex Umbra]

QUESTION:

I have an ATC. If I just make a long tether, what is the simplest way to rig it for retrieval (assuming there isn't a branch in the way)? I could just keep a separate rope just for Rappel.

Yesterday I realized I could just use my bow tow rope to pull down my tether after descending assuming my tether wouldn't be stuck

I generally don't go higher than 15'. I have been messing with all of these no stick aider climbs and it would be nice to just rappel down if it didn't become noisy/heavy/complicated/expensive

1. Quick & dirty, but safe:
You could clip a biner from the loop in your tether to the tether line when you girth it around the tree. Tie your bow tow cord to the biner.

Rappel down with your ATC. Pull the biner and your main line down via the bow tie cord. Done.
The downside is it likely would be hard to pull down since the rope would be rubbing the bark of the tree and this will abrade your rope.

2. Clean rigging:
Buy some rope/accesory cord/webbing- whatever you have confidence in to make a loop and girth the loop around the tree. Its cheap enough to make a sacrificial anchor that you'll leave in the tree after the rappel.
If you make a loop out of rope or accessory cord use a retraced fig. 8 to join the ends (best.) If you get webbing join the ends with a water knot.

Get a or several threaded chain links that your rappel line will fit in.
Connect the chain link to whatever you loop girthed around the tree and also insert your rappel line in the chain link. Thread the chain link closed and rig a carabiner and your pull line like in the pic I posted earlier in the thread.

Rappel down. Pull your rope down- it will slide easily in the threaded chain link and won't be abraded. The down side- you left a couple bucks worth of anchor stuff up in the tree...but it's reuseable next time.
(just keep an eye on the nylon loop- it will be exposed to UV day in day out which will degrade it. I wouldn't use an anchor like this left in a tree repeatedly more than one hunting season due to UV degradation and possible attack from mold.)

* If it's a tree you hunt out of every year make an anchor out of smaller log chain and threaded chain links. It will be safe for many years.
Unless you go around a limb....keeping a chain looped around a tree from sliding down the tree takes a different kind of rigging. Let me know if you need to know how to rig a chain on a limbless tree.

Fun fun!
Umbra

 

[justsomedude]

For the quick and dirty...could I just put a cover on the girthed part of the rope like a sleeve style friction saver? On a lot of the slicker trees I am on a lot, the loop will just fall down the tree when I get it loose.

I test on worst case scenario Shagbark Hickory trees which I have a ton of in my yard though.

 

[justsomedude]

Oh yeah...

8mm single rope should be OK on an ATC right? The only extra rope I have right now is dynamic climbing rope. It'll work but it is heavier and springier than I need for this. I think I'll only need 30' including knots and an extra safe tail (figure descending 20')