Honestly, is remote releasing of rappel line that big of a deal?

[HuumanCreed]

Just saw that Apex Predator Outdoors released a video about his version of a remote release for rappelling line. I see JRB has his version, and a few others has their too I think.

I'm REALLY suspicious of quick releases. I've only been rappelling for 2 years, and while I agree that quick release might seem more convenient, I just don't think the added variables to the process of rappelling is worth the extra time saved. If you climbed a limbless tree, the rope would drop down easily, if you climbed a tree with limbs, it would be an extra 10-15 second most to pull down the knot/quick link section to unhook it. I have not have an issue with rope being stuck on a tree yet so maybe I don't quite understand why there is a need for it.

I don't see quick release being a big thing in any other climbing situations. Granted we are molding things and methods to fit our own purpose, but I think this is one aspect that we should not promote.

I'm nowhere near an expert like JRB or anyone else that does it professionally. I don't pretend to understand how knot/rope/physic/etc works, but my brain just tell me that it isn't worth it to be too fancy, sometime simple is better.

 

[Loopwing]

I am in the same thoughts process. We have a debate about knots and mechanical devices. There are 5 gamillion friction hitches (because none of them actually work right, lol), BUT we want to put a quick release on our anchorage point that is holding us in a tree. I have made the climb of shame once when my delta got caught in a crotch. Since then I have paid more attention to my rappel route and haven't had a problem.

 

[drpike22]

I agree. Saving a few seconds or eliminating a few ounces from my equipment is not worth the possible safety or comfort issues it might create.

 

[enkriss]

I don’t think a quick release gains you much. Even if you have to pull the whole rope through. What is it 5 seconds longer.

A quick release is another failure point. The ones with the block of wood or plastic in the knot to pull on really sketch me out.

You won’t see me using a “quick release”.

 

[Horn]

So it's the idea that the exploding hitch is less safe that gives you guys pause?

I've got a pretty short list of stuff to try this year and I have to admit the only big change I'm considering is an exploding hitch to rappel on. I've also only had my delta get stuck once where I had to climb back up, so it's not that it's been a huge issue for me. Just seems like I'd like it better

 

[jphillips97]

So it's the idea that the exploding hitch is less safe that gives you guys pause?

I've got a pretty short list of stuff to try this year and I have to admit the only big change I'm considering is an exploding hitch to rappel on. I've also only had my delta get stuck once where I had to climb back up, so it's not that it's been a huge issue for me. Just seems like I'd like it better

I am worried would pull the wrong line when it wasn’t locked out I would forget to unlock it before I came down.

 

[Loopwing]

I still think I might install ziplines with all my presents.

 

[HuumanCreed]

So it's the idea that the exploding hitch is less safe that gives you guys pause?

I've got a pretty short list of stuff to try this year and I have to admit the only big change I'm considering is an exploding hitch to rappel on. I've also only had my delta get stuck once where I had to climb back up, so it's not that it's been a huge issue for me. Just seems like I'd like it better

It just the idea of adding more variable to the situation. Again, user error is 99% of the cause of failure. Chance of be messing up a hitch in a lot higher than screwing/unscrewing a link.

So honest question, can you tell us how you got your delta link stuck? I can't imagine this scenario because the link is pulling away from the tree if you are using a retrieval line. I used to make the mistake of pulling DOWN, but other taught me that you pull AWAY from the tree which help alot.

 

[BTaylor]

I guess I will be the first dissenting voice with a caveat. If you are using a mechanical device like a safeguard or grigri+ where you can quickly remove it from the rappel rope once on the ground then an exploding hitch may be a non-issue as you could easily pull the rope through an eye or quick link. For those of us that prefer to use hitches in place of metal devices, you have to consider we are pulling down a line with hitches on it that can hang up. In that case an exploding hitch is by far the better option imo. It also eliminates the need for keepers or tighteners to keep the rope in place on the tree as you are climbing or if you unweight it on a stand or platform. I climbed on the running jrb for the entire season and it worked perfectly. The fact that it can be locked while climbing and hanging adds to the confidence in using it. At the end of the day, climb on what you are confident in using properly and is safe.

 

[kyler1945]

I don’t accept the prior that rappelling is necessary, or that it is faster/safer/cheaper/quieter(or whatever combination of features/benefits that convinces a person to use it in the woods).

Because I don’t accept that prior, how you get the rope down is a match on fire. You can make the same argument/use same logic for not rappelling at all, and math is probably on the side of that argument.

That said, whomever is selling or promoting the tools might find better catch phrases than “quick release” and “exploding hitch”. Both instantly put a negative connotation in most people’s heads.

 

[Horn]

It just the idea of adding more variable to the situation. Again, user error is 99% of the cause of failure. Chance of be messing up a hitch in a lot higher than screwing/unscrewing a link.

So honest question, can you tell us how you got your delta link stuck? I can't imagine this scenario because the link is pulling away from the tree if you are using a retrieval line. I used to make the mistake of pulling DOWN, but other taught me that you pull AWAY from the tree which help alot.

I think it was probably just me, lol.

I think I had put my girth just above a crotch, like the rappel line was in the crotch. Got down fine, then couldn't get it loose. So maybe the rope was just pinched in the crotch from my weight more so than the delta or knot itself got stuck. I ended up pulling the tag end through but couldn't whip it loose. It was probably only about 12 feet up. I tried pushing it loose with a stick, no luck.

I did forget to bring a JRB back down with me when I rappelled down one time. Last time I used that system but I'm going to revisit it this year. Luckily I'm not skinny and I was able to finally get that hitch to get through the delta but it was a battle. That also rearranged the hitch to where I would need to retie and inspect everything before using it again

 

[BTaylor]

I don’t accept the prior that rappelling is necessary, or that it is faster/safer/cheaper/quieter(or whatever combination of features/benefits that convinces a person to use it in the woods).

Because I don’t accept that prior, how you get the rope down is a match on fire. You can make the same argument/use same logic for not rappelling at all, and math is probably on the side of that argument.

That said, whomever is selling or promoting the tools might find better catch phrases than “quick release” and “exploding hitch”. Both instantly put a negative connotation in most people’s heads.

I would argue that rappelling is monumentally safer than nearly any other climbing option and esp for the folks that use no type of fall restraint at all. I am always attached to the tree from the time I leave the ground and can return to the ground at any point without changing any gear or needing any other gear. Not sure how that could be viewed in any other way than safer than any other climbing option.

 

[gettingstarted]

When 2TC up and you are climbing up on your rappel line, having delta link by itself does not seem to be sufficient because you need to lock in position (and loosened easily) on every move.

Additionally, there is no need to twist untwist the delta link, which gets stuck on occasion..

This is where jrb hitch or some exploding knot shines.

Sent from my moto g(8) power using Tapatalk

 

[Loopwing]

It just the idea of adding more variable to the situation. Again, user error is 99% of the cause of failure. Chance of be messing up a hitch in a lot higher than screwing/unscrewing a link.

So honest question, can you tell us how you got your delta link stuck? I can't imagine this scenario because the link is pulling away from the tree if you are using a retrieval line. I used to make the mistake of pulling DOWN, but other taught me that you pull AWAY from the tree which help alot.

My delta link rode into a crotch of a branch and some how locked into the bark, don't ask me how. I had to one stick back up and physically pull the delta link the other direction. It was probably 100% user error. I had stayed too late, it was dark, and the rain was starting pour. I was not doing everything correctly because I was in a rush. I learned a lot that night.

 

[elk yinzer]

Not worth the risk to me. Everything I've seen is a version of the fiddlestick, and have way more risk of accidental disengagement than I am willing to accept when a line attached to a choked anchor works almost as reliably if you rig it properly. Another novelty for the sake of seeking credit, imo.

 

[thedutchtouch]

Agreed. Likely largely due to my ignorance of these hitches, but I'd rather do the climb of shame than the fall of death. Besides the climb back up is usually a heck of a lot easier with no tether to advance. I've debated carrying a foot ascender to just srt back up on these rare occurrences instead of an exploding hitch.

 

[elk yinzer]

Climb of shame I like that one. The fun one is when you partially disengage a choke so you have to do the drop of shame on the way up. Rope climbing is so easy if you already have a progress capture device or hitch all you need is another one for the foot loop, or just use a dual-purpose lineman's belt for it.

 

[Horn]

Don't all, or almost all, exploding hitches stay tied/ tight because they're weighted? Like your body weight us what cinches it tight so it can't come undone, while weighted? This is the same principle sliding hitches like a prusik use isn't it?

 

[HuumanCreed]

Don't all, or almost all, exploding hitches stay tied/ tight because they're weighted? Like your body weight us what cinches it tight so it can't come undone, while weighted? This is the same principle sliding hitches like a prusik use isn't it?

You're right. Can't speak for other, myself I'm not debating the working mechanic of an exploding hitch (but yeah, not the best name scheme haha). I'm saying that it add more possibility of user errors and unforeseen situations. Other than tying it wrong, I'm worry about accidentally pulling on the retrieval lines as I rappel down. So if the argument is the knot/hitch cinch when our bodyweight is applied, what if you got tangled with your retrieval line in a way that the retrieval line is supporting your weight? At that moment, wouldn't the cinch be release? All these videos I see have the rope line weighted when they tried to release the hitch but can't. In a normal situation it work fine. But what if your hitch slip and in a panic you grab onto your retrival line? Would that second that you stop yourself and the weight is not on your line be enough to God....EXPLODE the hitch?

I just rather not deal with any possible unexpected scenarios, as in if I can remove the possibility, I would. Not saying this is a solid idea/opinion etc, we all make our choices anytime we leave the ground. Only way to be 100% safe from falling is to sit on a log...

 

[elk yinzer]

Right, I don't see how such a knot would be safe to hunt from in any practical manner. I don't trust myself tying any knot to rappel down at the end of a hunt, let alone an inherently sketchy knot. My brain does not work on all cylinders when I've been swaying in a tree for 12 hours and teetering on hypothermia stage.