Just saw this haha!
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JRB Hitch Climbing
- Thread starter John RB
- Start date
Just saw this haha!
John RB
Well-Known Member
@Fozzie Bear had asked me how much rope we need... my response is below...
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This is going to be a little bit difficult to explain without a camera to explain it, and I will get to that as soon as I can.... short answer is that you will need more rope for this climb and anything else you have done. I do like my 100 ft but 75 should get most hunters to a respectable height.
With 100 ft of rope, I could climb as high as 40 ft, with the tie in around 45. But it's not something I recommend. I will need to explain... at some point, I will need to switch sides:
1st, we have to recognize that the diameter of the tree trunk has big part of the equation : an 18inch thick tree consumes about 10feet of rope for each Saddle Hunter's Hitch (SHH). 3.14 x 18in = 56in × 2 wraps around the tree plus a few inches lost in the hitch itself. And ya LOSE all that 10 feet when you pull it through to climb the next hitch. And so by the time i climb to say 22 feet, a guess, i might have consumed 50 ft of rope and be in the middle of my 100ft line. Okay, let's say I kept going to 40 ft... at some point, one end of the rope will start coming off of the ground.
For a 1st time climber, I would warn that you should stop when one side gets off the ground. Ok, but for the advanced climber... we're really not stuck... this is what i do:
In preparation for a high climb, before starting, i join the two ends of the rope. I keep a boat clip on one end and a small beaner on the other end so I just click them together.
let's say i climb to 35 ft and i consumed so much rope that the joined ends are up in the air halfway up the tree.
1. when I tie the last SHH, instead of attaching the long bridge to it, use the short bridge instead. Load it. Trust it.
2. Remove the prior SHH AND remove the friction hitches from the bridge loops AND Carefully remove the Garda and put it on the other rope, the short one. I am now on the short rope.
3. Climb the SHORT rope 2 feet or so using the same technique but with my weight on the short bridge.
4. When i can't go any higher, tie a JRB hitch as high as possible and attach the long bridge to the two friction hitches that are free on that long side, which just came off of my Bridge loops. Transfer over to that bridge. This is my hunting position. It is also my rappel rope as there are no obstructions on that side. To be clear, I am going to rappel on the same side i climbed on. And I utilized my secondary bridge in my last move to do that transfer.
5. At rappel time, I come down as per the video and at some point on the way down, I will pass the union of the two ends of the Rope but pay them no attention.
6. When my feet are on the ground, and I tug on the release line, I will be tugging right through that Union of the two ends of the Rope. But the jrb hitch has no idea of the rigging beneath it and it spills like it always does.
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This is going to be a little bit difficult to explain without a camera to explain it, and I will get to that as soon as I can.... short answer is that you will need more rope for this climb and anything else you have done. I do like my 100 ft but 75 should get most hunters to a respectable height.
With 100 ft of rope, I could climb as high as 40 ft, with the tie in around 45. But it's not something I recommend. I will need to explain... at some point, I will need to switch sides:
1st, we have to recognize that the diameter of the tree trunk has big part of the equation : an 18inch thick tree consumes about 10feet of rope for each Saddle Hunter's Hitch (SHH). 3.14 x 18in = 56in × 2 wraps around the tree plus a few inches lost in the hitch itself. And ya LOSE all that 10 feet when you pull it through to climb the next hitch. And so by the time i climb to say 22 feet, a guess, i might have consumed 50 ft of rope and be in the middle of my 100ft line. Okay, let's say I kept going to 40 ft... at some point, one end of the rope will start coming off of the ground.
For a 1st time climber, I would warn that you should stop when one side gets off the ground. Ok, but for the advanced climber... we're really not stuck... this is what i do:
In preparation for a high climb, before starting, i join the two ends of the rope. I keep a boat clip on one end and a small beaner on the other end so I just click them together.
let's say i climb to 35 ft and i consumed so much rope that the joined ends are up in the air halfway up the tree.
1. when I tie the last SHH, instead of attaching the long bridge to it, use the short bridge instead. Load it. Trust it.
2. Remove the prior SHH AND remove the friction hitches from the bridge loops AND Carefully remove the Garda and put it on the other rope, the short one. I am now on the short rope.
3. Climb the SHORT rope 2 feet or so using the same technique but with my weight on the short bridge.
4. When i can't go any higher, tie a JRB hitch as high as possible and attach the long bridge to the two friction hitches that are free on that long side, which just came off of my Bridge loops. Transfer over to that bridge. This is my hunting position. It is also my rappel rope as there are no obstructions on that side. To be clear, I am going to rappel on the same side i climbed on. And I utilized my secondary bridge in my last move to do that transfer.
5. At rappel time, I come down as per the video and at some point on the way down, I will pass the union of the two ends of the Rope but pay them no attention.
6. When my feet are on the ground, and I tug on the release line, I will be tugging right through that Union of the two ends of the Rope. But the jrb hitch has no idea of the rigging beneath it and it spills like it always does.
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Ok so now you've gotta make a video of that!
I found I was able to tie a Michoacán that grabbed reliably on its own using Sterling’s 7mm accessory cord
cover with the core from the Powercord. Hoped to put the Powercord cover back on after splicing the eyes but it was too tight, so went to plan B, slightly bigger cover. The slightly baggy cover bites better than the standard cord. Liquid tape is painted on the eyes to keep the fibers together, with a bonus that its rubbery texture keeps the eyes from sliding on the carabiner, could easily put on the inside of any hitch eyes as long as they aren’t too tight.
cover with the core from the Powercord. Hoped to put the Powercord cover back on after splicing the eyes but it was too tight, so went to plan B, slightly bigger cover. The slightly baggy cover bites better than the standard cord. Liquid tape is painted on the eyes to keep the fibers together, with a bonus that its rubbery texture keeps the eyes from sliding on the carabiner, could easily put on the inside of any hitch eyes as long as they aren’t too tight.
John RB
Well-Known Member
1. Wow.
2. Minor, but The Oplux wants to be on the other side of the eyes.
3. Are you building this for the JRB hitch climbing method or the JRB method or both?
Why do i ask? Cuz we can also do a hitch climbing on the double meech instead of two separate Meechs
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That’s pretty cool.
I thought it was you (maybe not?) that said Powercord wasn’t a good choice for this application due to the Technora core. I have tried many, many different cords and Powercord has given me the best results as far as the right amount of friction, staying dressed properly and releases without too much fuss. Sterling 6mm accessory cord is my second favorite, but the tensile strength is significantly less than Powercord, though.
My plan is to use Powercord and just replace it every season.
@John RB, 1. This checks three of your boxes, Michoacan, Powercord, and Sterling’s 7mm cord.
2. If I did that the hitch tender wouldn’t work. This hitch cord has longer legs for use with a different hitch, wasn’t sure if the bushing would stay in place, but it does. From my understanding the hitch on the left is the Michoacán, the other is Scaffold Hitch, Petroacan, or the 180 degree Michoacan, same hitch just rotated. Some other hitches can also have a 180 degree hitch, most perform differently than the original.
3. I usually only use the Michoacan with the Rope Wrench, otherwise only one Sticht Hitch on one rope. Twin Stichts if I wanted to go with two ropes.
2. If I did that the hitch tender wouldn’t work. This hitch cord has longer legs for use with a different hitch, wasn’t sure if the bushing would stay in place, but it does. From my understanding the hitch on the left is the Michoacán, the other is Scaffold Hitch, Petroacan, or the 180 degree Michoacan, same hitch just rotated. Some other hitches can also have a 180 degree hitch, most perform differently than the original.
3. I usually only use the Michoacan with the Rope Wrench, otherwise only one Sticht Hitch on one rope. Twin Stichts if I wanted to go with two ropes.
John RB
Well-Known Member
That last image has me drueling a bit. Cool. I think i am looking at your own creation for a: TWIN friction hitch jig, for a doubled stationary rope system, using the Stitch hitch. And what i am not clear on is the ring and plate. My guess is that you can grab that plate and move it up really easily? And are you planning to use this for my standard climbing method? Or my hitch climbing method? Or both? I just need to get my brain around it. One of my primary struggles is trying to come up with a single system with everything already tied, and which allows us to climb using either method. Ang I didn't want to overcomplicate things and make it as easy as possible for the average person to construct their own system. However, it is worthy for me to mention that I have a friction hitch which I discovered which has a very similar setup to this. I'm very conservative about not sharing information in a public place until I have done appropriate testing. And I have not done so just yet on that friction hitch. I will send you a personal message...
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Correct description, I would only use for SRT type climbing. The plate is to have a single attachment point, could be used to advance hitches, but it is more set up for hand tending by pulling out on ropes. The oval ring replaces a circular ring that each hitch could have, but they clanged when I first tried it that way. The ring is needed to be able to descend, only using the Sticht hitch.
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John RB
Well-Known Member
Ok i didn't build that exact jig but i did build something really similar last weekend... it was a pair of friction hitches (my own design of a handled or toggled friction hitch) which SHARED a single Toggle device amongst both hitches. Then i climbed as crazy fast and sloppy as i could (knowing i am safe because of the Redundant Cayenne to my Garda hitch on my other Bridge). And I did find a failure mode. One time, I threw the hitches up after a stand and one of them bit, but the other one remained loose. It can happen and it's recoverable, but bothersome. In summary, i lose the feel when there's a single toggle. When I move each hitch independently, I can feel them bind before putting my weight on them. Another issue would be how it behaves when you are climbing to two Anchor points. As you go higher, the ropes are being pulled further and further apart which creates different set of forces than at the bottom of the tree. Advancing The Jig could be more difficult. You will want to check out those scenarios. In the end, I am currently concluding that no matter what type of hitch I use, I want them to be completely independent of one another with no shared components.
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I don’t have any plans on exploring that configuration, others might so your concerns are valuable, I would do a canopy anchor with both rope sections, the middle of rope, going over the branch, tie a figure eight on a bight and screw link it to itself. A hitch failure wouldn’t affect the other strand, just be on one hitch. Separation of the two lines wouldn’t cause problems, both ropes are still together at the plate, and can work independently.
John RB
Well-Known Member
Ahhh. So that's a parallel, dual SRT. Independent systems. I believe that in Europe, Arbs need to climb that way: two independent systems.
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John RB
Well-Known Member
Do u have a link on how to tie the Stitch or Stitcht hitch? I'm not sure how to spell it or tie it!
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Step 1 Four wraps, I cross the eye legs on top of the ring, others don’t, probably not much difference. Make sure eyes are same length and pass through the ring to the back.
Step 2 Cross the legs twice to make a twist, and pass the eyes through the ring again to the front.
Step 3 Clip to eyes. The distance between the ring and the wraps can adjust how much tension the wraps get. Closer makes it grab very reliably, but there is more friction than needed for tending and descending. Farther apart makes the sliding easier, but it can be overdone and it won’t bite as well, there is a sweet spot were both are great.
The Oval VT, top left, was the first SRT Hitch that used an overhand knot instead of a twist, worked just as well but harder to adjust. Used an oval carabiner to allow the knot to spread out.
Below it is the first version of the Sticht, switched to a ring fairly quickly.
The third hitch just uses a length of cord, and has a bushing tender. The Hitch will self tend, but the bushing makes it much easier.
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John RB
Well-Known Member
I have made some improvements to the hitch climbing method. For starters, i now have 2 adjustable bridges and need em both, and no longer need beaners on my bridge loops.
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John RB
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Is this method viable using a climbing harness with a belay loop instead of a saddle with bridge? It seems like getting close to tree is key, and using the belay loop would help with that.
I mostly ask because I have been contemplating climbing this way with a JX3 Hybrid, but I suspect the bridge attachment points will put you too far from the tree even with a short bridge. Haven't tried it at all, just speculation. If I'm right, perhaps using the climbing harness to climb while hauling the JX3 up on your back and installing when at height would work.
John RB
Well-Known Member
Absolutely it is. I have a rock climbing harness and have done it. But think ahead about what you're gonna do when ya get up there. Sitting in an RC isn't really comfortable. Also think about your rappel... i like my friction hitch a foot higher than my munter. That would require some sort of a transfer.
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Good to hear that.
Like I mentioned, I have a JX3 Hybrid saddle which will be great to simply flip the seat down at height and install the bridge. Rappeling off it is a breeze (I've already done that).
I'm not sure if you've seen a JX3 up close or not but I'm worried that its bridge attachment points extend too far out and up to facilitate getting close to your hitch for the maximum height of the next hitch. The RCH would fix that and perhaps be a redundant fall restraint at height.
John RB
Well-Known Member
I have climbers who are using my regular "jrb" double stationary rope method to climb, but nobody who is hitch climbing. And i 100% agree that's the way to go. In fact, nobody has ever seen my own DIY saddle design but it's been evolving for 14 years and its more similar to a jx3 than a saddle... and I've already decided that if I were to Hitch climb while wearing that, I would want a rock climbing harness on. But in practice climbs, I have only tried it with just the rock climbing harness or my Flex with the bridges as tight as a belt.
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