My review of Ken's sling/saddle

[Cbigbear]

What if you sewed on the loop in a u & Y fashion? Like this

 

[essdub]

That might be a good idea. And I could possibly still use the loop I already did. I'll be messing around with it after work today

Shaun

 

[BassBoysLLP]

Good idea cbigbear!

 

[swampsnyper]

I've been thinking about this a lot and Dave touched on it in an early post. I think we are thinking about it wrong. The loop position as far as squeeze goes isn't going to matter with a belt sewn in. Without a belt, the saddle can only squeeze the width of your hips. Any saddle past your hips is just an extension of your bridge if the loops are on the very ends of the saddle. With a belt, the belt has to be sewn to the saddle on the sides of your hips to let the ends of the saddle open up to your max hip width. If the belt is sewn to the saddle closer to your front, then the bridge is narrower and squeezes more because the belt is pulling in the sides of the saddle instead of them being free to spread to your widest hip area. This is why its gonna squeeze different on everyone. More freedom of rotating in the saddle will also be a factor of where the belt is attached. If the belt is attached to the saddle in front of the hips, its gonna work like a stop once the bridge gets perpendicular to it. Imagine if the belt was only attached at your spine. The saddle will open up until your spine is perpendicular to the bridge on that side. The loop position will only matter if its to long and hits the tether hookup while twisting in the saddle or in Dave's case, its up agains the tree while using a linemans belt.

I think its all about the belt attachment position on the saddle. But I could be way off! Just spitting out ideas for the real brains to work with.

 

[DaveT1963]

I've been thinking about this a lot and Dave touched on it in an early post. I think we are thinking about it wrong. The loop position as far as squeeze goes isn't going to matter with a belt sewn in. Without a belt, the saddle can only squeeze the width of your hips. Any saddle past your hips is just an extension of your bridge if the loops are on the very ends of the saddle. With a belt, the belt has to be sewn to the saddle on the sides of your hips to let the ends of the saddle open up to your max hip width. If the belt is sewn to the saddle closer to your front, then the bridge is narrower and squeezes more because the belt is pulling in the sides of the saddle instead of them being free to spread to your widest hip area. This is why its gonna squeeze different on everyone. More freedom of rotating in the saddle will also be a factor of where the belt is attached. If the belt is attached to the saddle in front of the hips, its gonna work like a stop once the bridge gets perpendicular to it. Imagine if the belt was only attached at your spine. The saddle will open up until your spine is perpendicular to the bridge on that side. The loop position will only matter if its to long and hits the tether hookup while twisting in the saddle or in Dave's case, its up agains the tree while using a linemans belt.

I think its all about the belt attachment position on the saddle. But I could be way off! Just spitting out ideas for the real brains to work with.

I could just use a 12inch bridge and that would then move the Ropeman 1 away from tree. But I prefer a 24 inch bridge so I can twist more if needed without worry of hitting a carbineer with my tether carbineer..

Hip pinch is mostly caused by the materials on the saddle and your clothing. If it was smooth as silk I doubt most would notice hip pinch. I believe it is the belt loops, pockets, etc. on our pants, that and the thick sewn strap connection points. Otherwise there would just be pressure around the hips and I don't think that will cause much of a problem.

Personally, I can deal with hip pain but I may be more manly then some :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[essdub]

Re: RE: Re: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

I've been thinking about this a lot and Dave touched on it in an early post. I think we are thinking about it wrong. The loop position as far as squeeze goes isn't going to matter with a belt sewn in. Without a belt, the saddle can only squeeze the width of your hips. Any saddle past your hips is just an extension of your bridge if the loops are on the very ends of the saddle. With a belt, the belt has to be sewn to the saddle on the sides of your hips to let the ends of the saddle open up to your max hip width. If the belt is sewn to the saddle closer to your front, then the bridge is narrower and squeezes more because the belt is pulling in the sides of the saddle instead of them being free to spread to your widest hip area. This is why its gonna squeeze different on everyone. More freedom of rotating in the saddle will also be a factor of where the belt is attached. If the belt is attached to the saddle in front of the hips, its gonna work like a stop once the bridge gets perpendicular to it. Imagine if the belt was only attached at your spine. The saddle will open up until your spine is perpendicular to the bridge on that side. The loop position will only matter if its to long and hits the tether hookup while twisting in the saddle or in Dave's case, its up agains the tree while using a linemans belt.

I think its all about the belt attachment position on the saddle. But I could be way off! Just spitting out ideas for the real brains to work with.

I had that thought about the saddle"arms"being an extension of the bridge. But it could be the width that makes a difference, with the saddle being much wider and thicker than just a rope or a webbing strap. I'm not sure either.
Your idea that it could be the position of the belt in relation to hips could be spot on though, at least for me. I'm gonna try hanging from this sling and loosening the belt to see if that helps. I do know that when I would hang from the aero before I modified it, there seemed to be a whole lot of"stuff"hanging out and toward center on each side. But with the modified evo, I was happy with the bridge being attached far to the side. I hate to think that I'm gonna ugly up the Ken sling and it won't help, but I'm sure there's an improvement there just waiting to happen


Shaun

 

[swampsnyper]

Re: RE: Re: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

I had that thought about the saddle"arms"being an extension of the bridge. But it could be the width that makes a difference, with the saddle being much wider and thicker than just a rope or a webbing strap. I'm not sure either.
Your idea that it could be the position of the belt in relation to hips could be spot on though, at least for me. I'm gonna try hanging from this sling and loosening the belt to see if that helps. I do know that when I would hang from the aero before I modified it, there seemed to be a whole lot of"stuff"hanging out and toward center on each side. But with the modified evo, I was happy with the bridge being attached far to the side. I hate to think that I'm gonna ugly up the Ken sling and it won't help, but I'm sure there's an improvement there just waiting to happen


Shaun

Thats what a test saddle is for! Gonna call it the Frankenstein saddle! LOL :twisted:

 

[swampsnyper]

Lots of freedom to rotate for demonstration purposes but I think another set of stitching on the sides across from your back, not center of your hips will support the saddle when not hooked up and give you freedom of rotation.

 

[DaveT1963]

Your widest part of hips will be the pivot point.... everything beyond that is just and extension of the bride sides. In simple terms, your actual bridge side lengths (there are two of them one on each point it attached to your tether) is from fulcrum of the V (lets call this the ropeman) to widest point of hips. Lengthen the bridge will make less pressure on the hips and shortening the bridge will create more... but there is always going to be pressure unless you sit on a board or something like the guidos which then becomes the widest point and thus reduces pressure form side of your hips. It cannot happen any other way folks as this is simple geometry. You are basically using a triangle with two long sides and one short side. The short side is your hips.

 

[Maustypsu]

simple geometry

That's an oxymoron.

 

[kenn1320]

This is what I was trying to say.



This will effectively pull on all 3 straps. Make the loop as long as you need. I can see in your pics, you are skinnier than me in the gut area Shaun. I dont have any of the issues you guys are having, but it was made specifically for me. Dave is right about how the triangle works, but the width(think hip to knee width, not hip bone to hip bone) of the saddle in the hip area is critical to comfort. Its a balancing act as too narrow will be high pressure and too wide will put pressure on the bottom of your thighs. If you move a wider one up to eliminate the pressure under the thighs, its just wasted material that doesnt touch your back. All the things you guys are noticing are the things I worked out with my straps in my basement. The netting almost isnt needed, but it add some support in squeeze out. I played around with 4 straps as well, which is what drove the width of this.

 

[essdub]

I'm not going to pretend to speak for Anyone else, so I don't know how this topic suddenly seems complicated. What I do know is that the Ken sling is really a great saddle the way it is. With that said, I know that I've been more comfortable pivoting when I hooked up my bridge further out towards my hips. So, since I thought the existing loops were kinda smallish anyway, I thought I'd try to make another set of loops nearer to the outside. Who knows how it'll work? I'm just trying things out since I have months ahead of me to experiment. Loosening the belt might help, according to a post earlier. We'll see. This saddle is probably the best all around saddle I've sat in to date. But I plan to address the two areas where I believe it could be improved (bigger loops further back, and attachment loops for accessories). I'll post successes and failures as I experience them

Shaun

 

[swampsnyper]

I agree 100% Dave but I was trying to address how where the belt is attached to the saddle effects restriction while rotating, not hip squeeze.
For example if the belt was sewn in front of the hip, rotating will be restricted once the saddle opens up to the stitching of the belt. Like if the clamp was where the belt was stitched to the saddle.

And if it was stitched further back at the hips, you could rotate further unrestricted.

Now as for as hip squeeze and that damn triangle, I'm working on an idea to the point of this:

Bigger the tree, the more it will spread.

 

[DaveT1963]

I am not finding any discomfort with Ken's design at all. My only issue deals with how I prefer to use a saddle at a really low hook up height. I may just try a 15 inch runner and see if that works. We are talking a few incher here and Ken cannot build a saddle that will fit everyone. The gear loops on the back are something easily added. I am also going to add a pruner sheath to mine as I often climb trees blind and use them to trim away smaller braches, vines, etc. as I go up.

I still think I prefer my current set up for hunting as I like having separate loops for my lineman's belt that are further back (it just makes it easier for me to clip in and out as I go around branches). Plus I can leave it attached as I tether in. and I will fold and make those loops stiff. Once again these are all individual preferences - Ken's saddle will hunt just like it is - I know as I have spent about 20 hours out in the woods under real circumstances (leaning trees, big/small trunks, etc.) in it thus far.

Once I get my singer set up I plan on making three that fit me exact and have all the things I like - this is why saddle making is so hard - we all have our preferences. Personally, I think Ken build a heck of a saddle. I love how flat I can fold this thing up. I never wore it to a single tree I carried it in a very small day pack.

 

[kenn1320]

Swamp, while it might not be recommended, I loosen the belt while hunting. I have found a tight belt gets tighter when you sit and actually had circulation issues with my molle saddle one time. Your point is correct in theory, I just dont use it like that(belt tight). In fact with it loose, you can lift your weight off it and turn 90 deg without changing the bridge angle. Then you can load your weight and turn another 90 and be facing away from the tree, load now across your front. I wouldnt attempt that on steps, but with a platform all day long.

 

[g2outdoors]

I haven't had used the shoulder straps, leg straps or belt on my Trophyline for years. It's basically just a seat. I don't believe that decreases the safety at all. I do use the shoulder straps for ascending/descending but that's just to keep the saddle around my waist.

I don't think loosening the belt at hunting height makes your saddle any less safe. The belt's only real function is to keep the saddle in place. Once you're tied into the tether, your body weight keeps it in place so the belt is unnecessary.

 

[essdub]

Re: RE: Re: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

Swamp, while it might not be recommended, I loosen the belt while hunting. I have found a tight belt gets tighter when you sit and actually had circulation issues with my molle saddle one time. Your point is correct in theory, I just dont use it like that(belt tight). In fact with it loose, you can lift your weight off it and turn 90 deg without changing the bridge angle. Then you can load your weight and turn another 90 and be facing away from the tree, load now across your front. I wouldnt attempt that on steps, but with a platform all day long.

I agree with Dave that you came up with one heck of a saddle. And it doesn't NEED to be improved. But, as he stated, we all have our preferences. I hope I can make functional loops further back because that's my preference (easier to get to in dark and I just like it that way), but if not, the saddle is already the best I've sat in for me.
I've sat in trees for hours with it already too. Prepping trees and practicing at odd angles just because I wanted to do it.


Shaun

 

[essdub]

Re: RE: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

I agree 100% Dave but I was trying to address how where the belt is attached to the saddle effects restriction while rotating, not hip squeeze.
For example if the belt was sewn in front of the hip, rotating will be restricted once the saddle opens up to the stitching of the belt. Like if the clamp was where the belt was stitched to the saddle.

And if it was stitched further back at the hips, you could rotate further unrestricted.

Now as for as hip squeeze and that damn triangle, I'm working on an idea to the point of this:

Bigger the tree, the more it will spread.

Really interested in seeing what you've got cooking here

Shaun

 

[swampsnyper]

Swamp, while it might not be recommended, I loosen the belt while hunting. I have found a tight belt gets tighter when you sit and actually had circulation issues with my molle saddle one time. Your point is correct in theory, I just dont use it like that(belt tight). In fact with it loose, you can lift your weight off it and turn 90 deg without changing the bridge angle. Then you can load your weight and turn another 90 and be facing away from the tree, load now across your front. I wouldnt attempt that on steps, but with a platform all day long.

I understand, just different ways of wearing it perform different.

 

[swampsnyper]

Re: RE: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

I agree 100% Dave but I was trying to address how where the belt is attached to the saddle effects restriction while rotating, not hip squeeze.
For example if the belt was sewn in front of the hip, rotating will be restricted once the saddle opens up to the stitching of the belt. Like if the clamp was where the belt was stitched to the saddle.

And if it was stitched further back at the hips, you could rotate further unrestricted.

Now as for as hip squeeze and that damn triangle, I'm working on an idea to the point of this:

Bigger the tree, the more it will spread.

Really interested in seeing what you've got cooking here

Shaun

Thats just to show the idea, lots more to go into it and pretty up.