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My review of Ken's sling/saddle

Re: RE: Re: RE: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

swampsnyper said:
essdub said:
swampsnyper said:
I agree 100% Dave but I was trying to address how where the belt is attached to the saddle effects restriction while rotating, not hip squeeze.
For example if the belt was sewn in front of the hip, rotating will be restricted once the saddle opens up to the stitching of the belt. Like if the clamp was where the belt was stitched to the saddle.


And if it was stitched further back at the hips, you could rotate further unrestricted.






Now as for as hip squeeze and that damn triangle, I'm working on an idea to the point of this:



Bigger the tree, the more it will spread.
Click to expand...
Really interested in seeing what you've got cooking here

Shaun
Click to expand...

Thats just to show the idea, lots more to go into it and pretty up.
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For the tether like demonstrated in your post, what do you think about a webbing sling/runner long enough to wrap around tree two times, leaving both ends in front of you? You would attach a carabiner to both ends and clip both to your bridge so it slides through each carabiner as you rotate.I guess if the runner was to long you could wrap it again or tie a quick knot in the back side (middle of runner)it if it's too long. Then you'd have two eyes to hook up your bridge , one right and one left.
Not sure if it'll be better, but I'll try it sometime this week. Had a rough day today and got home late. So no tree time today

Shaun
 
Its doesn't work. The bridge pulls the 2 carabiners together as close as possible causing the rope between the 2 carabiners on the tree to rub against the face of the tree. You would need something rigid to hold it out past the tree. The squeeze isn't bad enough to make me want to take more gear in the woods. Now if you pivot in the harness and don't need the bridge to slide, then you can make the bridge in 2 different pieces connected to each side of the tree.
 
Re: RE: Re: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

DaveT1963 said:
I am not finding any discomfort with Ken's design at all. My only issue deals with how I prefer to use a saddle at a really low hook up height. I may just try a 15 inch runner and see if that works. We are talking a few incher here and Ken cannot build a saddle that will fit everyone. The gear loops on the back are something easily added. I am also going to add a pruner sheath to mine as I often climb trees blind and use them to trim away smaller braches, vines, etc. as I go up.

I still think I prefer my current set up for hunting as I like having separate loops for my lineman's belt that are further back (it just makes it easier for me to clip in and out as I go around branches). Plus I can leave it attached as I tether in. and I will fold and make those loops stiff. Once again these are all individual preferences - Ken's saddle will hunt just like it is - I know as I have spent about 20 hours out in the woods under real circumstances (leaning trees, big/small trunks, etc.) in it thus far.

Once I get my singer set up I plan on making three that fit me exact and have all the things I like - this is why saddle making is so hard - we all have our preferences. Personally, I think Ken build a heck of a saddle. I love how flat I can fold this thing up. I never wore it to a single tree I carried it in a very small day pack.
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Did you have something else made?
swampsnyper said:
Lots of freedom to rotate for demonstration purposes but I think another set of stitching on the sides across from your back, not center of your hips will support the saddle when not hooked up and give you freedom of rotation.








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Re: RE: Re: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

swampsnyper said:
Its doesn't work. The bridge pulls the 2 carabiners together as close as possible causing the rope between the 2 carabiners on the tree to rub against the face of the tree. You would need something rigid to hold it out past the tree. The squeeze isn't bad enough to make me want to take more gear in the woods. Now if you pivot in the harness and don't need the bridge to slide, then you can make the bridge in 2 different pieces connected to each side of the tree.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I was wondering if there would be a way to keep the two ends from pulling together. If the ends were far enough apart maybe (the tree was large) but then you'd have your carabiners against the tree. Oh well. Everything is worth quesTioning. And I don't mind being wrong. I suppose it's a good thing, considering my track record

Shaun
 
Honestly. If I'm messing with a spreader bar it makes sense to just take the web. It doesn't seem so minimalist when you are adding pounds of padding and spreader bar. ,
 
2 lengths of bridge doesnt seem like it would work well to me. As you move left or right, the far side gets tight, the close side gets loose.
 
BassBoysLLP said:
Honestly. If I'm messing with a spreader bar it makes sense to just take the web. It doesn't seem so minimalist when you are adding pounds of padding and spreader bar. ,
Click to expand...
+1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: RE: Re: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

kenn1320 said:
2 lengths of bridge doesnt seem like it would work well to me. As you move left or right, the far side gets tight, the close side gets loose.
Click to expand...
I agree. But I was thinking that you'd use the same bridge you use now, the only change being two carabiners at the tree for the bridge to run through instead of only one.
Maybe a daisy chain around the tree (if you can keep it tight) and then hook up to two different loops.
Or some other sling with two fixed loops six inches apart that you could attach a quick draw on each loop or something to that effect.
Or the spreader bar. Anything that would be like a "Y"with the long end at the tree and the two arms each holding a carabiner to run the bridge through

I don't want to carry any more stuff either, but maybe if this is possible with something (like the daisy chain) that replaces a piece of existing equipment instead of adding another piece. ..
Shaun
 
essdub said:
kenn1320 said:
2 lengths of bridge doesnt seem like it would work well to me. As you move left or right, the far side gets tight, the close side gets loose.
Click to expand...
I agree. But I was thinking that you'd use the same bridge you use now, the only change being two carabiners at the tree for the bridge to run through instead of only one.
Maybe a daisy chain around the tree (if you can keep it tight) and then hook up to two different loops.
Or some other sling with two fixed loops six inches apart that you could attach a quick draw on each loop or something to that effect.
Or the spreader bar. Anything that would be like a "Y"with the long end at the tree and the two arms each holding a carabiner to run the bridge through

I don't want to carry any more stuff either, but maybe if this is possible with something (like the daisy chain) that replaces a piece of existing equipment instead of adding another piece. ..
Shaun
Click to expand...
If you use the same bridge, it will always pull the top hook ups together trying to make a V at the top, squeezing the top 2 carabiners toward each other and the rope between them against the face of the tree. The wider the tree, the more rope between the 2 carabiners that will contact the face of the tree, putting more friction on your bridge so you can't rotate.

I thought about a daisy chain also then decided an amsteel constrictor with eyelets on each end would be best because you can add wraps around the tree and adjust the constrictor to fine tune any size tree. But you still have the same problem of tree squeeze at the top if using a single rope for your bridge. It has to be a rigid hookup at the rope to prevent tree squeeze and that defeats the purpose of a minimalist saddle for me.
 
kenn1320 said:
2 lengths of bridge doesnt seem like it would work well to me. As you move left or right, the far side gets tight, the close side gets loose.
Click to expand...
This is correct but with a loose belt hookup like you talked about earlier, you would slide in you saddle having the saddle slip around you and both bridge ropes stay tight.
I've tried it, it works and is comfortable but the saddle makes noise sliding and with a jacket and loose clothes it could be a mess. A saddle made out of polyester would be slick.

The negatives just doesn't out weigh the little squeeze of the original. But I like the sharing, thinking and testing. Eventually a blind squirrel will find a nut! Lol
 
Re: RE: Re: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

BassBoysLLP said:
Honestly. If I'm messing with a spreader bar it makes sense to just take the web. It doesn't seem so minimalist when you are adding pounds of padding and spreader bar. ,
Click to expand...
I don't think spreader bars are necessary. I've always been comfortable in my standard saddle with very manageable hip squeeze.

However for the guys that are interested in the spreader bar, my suggestion would only add about 8 oz, take 30 seconds to setup and has already been tested to hold your body weight. Just an idea.
 
Im just not feeling the hip squeeze that I used to guys. Heck I even get sore on a kids swing, but not with this sling. Dave also touched on something, clothing. If your clothing has a seem or bunches up in the hip area, your going to feel that as a pressure point. For the guys using my sling, if you feel a spot, just move your saddle an inch and it goes away. You have to find that location that works for your body. As strange as it sounds, the first strap right on my hip bone feels best to me. If your sitting down more with legs bent almost 90deg, moving it more under your butt like a swing(in front of hips) is more comfortable for me.
 
Re: RE: Re: My review of Ken's sling/saddle

kenn1320 said:
Im just not feeling the hip squeeze that I used to guys. Heck I even get sore on a kids swing, but not with this sling. Dave also touched on something, clothing. If your clothing has a seem or bunches up in the hip area, your going to feel that as a pressure point. For the guys using my sling, if you feel a spot, just move your saddle an inch and it goes away. You have to find that location that works for your body. As strange as it sounds, the first strap right on my hip bone feels best to me. If your sitting down more with legs bent almost 90deg, moving it more under your butt like a swing(in front of hips) is more comfortable for me.
Click to expand...
Hip squeeze isn't my primary reason for wanting to modify any saddle. I had it a bit while I was using the standard aero hunter and maybe the sit drag, but not too much in the others. I do prefer a large loop to connect to my bridge and I prefer them to be as close to my hips as possible. Maybe it's just in my nature to keep tinkering and trying things in different ways.
Ken, the sling you came up with is far and away the best overall, at least any I've tried (never used Guido or tree saddle) .I do hope I'm able to figure out a way to add loops, but really the sling is awesome as is.
I'm gonna mess around with the double loop tether too, I think.
If I can make things easier, or better in any way, then tinkering is worth it. Even if not, It'll still be worth it because I'm trying things that I think might help and can cross out the ineffective methods as I try them. Plus, it's the off season and I'm spending time in the woods in a saddle. What more could I ask for?

Shaun
 
kenn1320 said:
Im just not feeling the hip squeeze that I used to guys. Heck I even get sore on a kids swing, but not with this sling. Dave also touched on something, clothing. If your clothing has a seem or bunches up in the hip area, your going to feel that as a pressure point. For the guys using my sling, if you feel a spot, just move your saddle an inch and it goes away. You have to find that location that works for your body. As strange as it sounds, the first strap right on my hip bone feels best to me. If your sitting down more with legs bent almost 90deg, moving it more under your butt like a swing(in front of hips) is more comfortable for me.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Position of saddle, bridge length, and hookup height play a major roll in comfort. If its not a simple fix with no extra parts to add a little more comfort its not worth it to me. The saddles are pretty good as is and from what your testers say, you have your sling pretty fine tuned. Congrats!
 
Lots of good stuff in here guys. Just a few points that came to my mind while catching up on this:

Everyone likes hunting differently out of a saddle. I like to sit in mine. Kenn likes to lean into his. I think the longer loops might work better for the way Kenn hangs than it than it would for me. On my custom saddle I can move the position of where I hook the loops up to the bridge. If I have them too far out in front I can't adjust my tether enough like Dave said, so I find it much better to keep them in tighter to the hips (but just in front of the hips).

I don't really think there will be too much of a difference of a U vs a V. The U will turn into the V like it was said and that material that bulks up isn't a big deal. I noticed this before I designed my saddle and I tapered the material on the sides to compensate for this.

Kenn, you are right that you don't want to overload the center webbing. That will make it uncomfortable and the outer webbing will provide almost no support.

Kenn, you said that the netting in between the webbing almost isn't needed. For supporting your weight, true, but it definitely adds to comfort by spreading the pressure over a wider area, not just helping with "squeeze out" lol.
 
So I tried my loops today. I have to say that you were right, Kenn. It did seem to change the way the saddle distributed my weight ( But it did feel good rotating, so I confirmed my belief that I can move more easily when I'm attached closer to my hips). I'm not sure if this is because i can more comfortably tether at a lower height and still use a longer bridge or if it's because of where I'm attached at the sides. So I am gonna use these two as accessory loops and am gonna try one more loop modification (moving the forward to a spot just behind the existing loops). I know. I know. You tried to tell me. But I'm hard headed and I really think I can add some loops to this thing that will accomplish the thing I set out to do. If not, then I guess I'll have a few extra loops.

Shaun
 
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