New Saddle Hunter

[Matt G.]

Evening Guys,

So I've been absorbing info for the last several months, not wanting to put the cart before the horse, since I didn't even own a saddle.

I'd first like to say how impressed I am with this forum. I've long abandoned another hunting forum frequented by Michigan sportsman, due to the tenor of the discourse. It's refreshing how humbly members share advice, tips, and knowledge......without condescending "know-it-all" attitudes. Quite a contrast from the other forum I'm referring to.

So my Kestral has arrived (just in time to be the second best saddle apparently), and I'm ready to start the learning process. I thought that it would be a pretty quick learning curve, but I haven't even left the ground yet! I'm now looking for some tips from the brain pool here to get me started.

I hunt 80% of the time on private land where I have the ability to preset trees. My property is 40 acres of a 70 acre woodlot, which as a whole is an island amongst AG fields in the Thumb. Deer concentration is very high, and stealth entry is a must. For this reason, I plan on using screw in steps for ascent. I'm still not sure on what type of platform I'll utilize, but I have my head wrapped around that variable.

I also spend 20% or so of my time on 15 acres of private land that abuts 500+ acres of state land in the Gladwin area. I'd like to employ "Sam's method" of ascent/descent for my mobile setups. This is where I start to get lost.

My main concern is safety. I'll gladly sacrifice weight or cost to ensure that I'm safe. Comfort and ease of use are tied for second in importance. With these things in mind, I have a few questions......

-Are screw in steps a satisfactorily safe method of ascent and descent for a novice saddle hunter?

-Assuming I use "Sam's method" of tree access, I'm confused about how the ropes are secured to the tree. This might make more sense once I actually try to get up a tree, but right now I dont quite understand how his lines are secured. I'm very familiar with climbing stands, so this method makes sense to me, just can't quite figure out how the lines stay tight on the tree.

--Is Sam using his tether as the top rope? If not, what role should I buy for top and bottom ropes, and where should I buy it?

-Are there any particular knots that I need to learn in order to implement Sam's method?

-Finally, with safety being a concern, is the Kestral ready to use right out of the box, or is there safety measures that I need to take to be sure that it's ready to be put into service? Do I need to check the knots? Similar to my insistence of never climbing into a tree stand I didn't hang, I have a hard time using this saddle without checking the knots. The problem is that I'm not familiar with the knots, and my inspection certainly doesn't ensure my safety.

This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as questions that I have......but I'll start with these

Thanks in advance for the thoughtful and informative responses I'm sure I'll receive.

 

[huck72412]

Welcome aboard. Most here pride themselves on keeping the forum friendly but constructive. I'd say @EricS and @Ontariofarmer are highly abrasive people but that's alright. Screw-in steps are safe as long as you respect their potential for trouble if you slip on them. I've watched Sam's climbing method but haven't experimented with it. The Kestrel comes ready to hunt with the appropriate knots but it can't hurt to make sure that they are not loose. Better than that...... post some pictures here on the forum and any potential problems with your setup will be addressed. My 2 cents!!

 

[Cory T]

I'm pretty new myself and have had my kestrel about months now. The one thing I did as far as the knots is using the sheet that came with the kestrel inspected them. Then played around at ground level. Then when I felt comfortable I untied all of them and retied them so I knew exactly how the knots were tied. I now feel very confident in the knots as well as the saddle. Safety in your gear is paramount and trust in it will make it 1000x more enjoyable.

 

[bigjoe]

Welcome.

I would tell you several years ago I was going to pull the plug on saddle hunting. I fell and promised my wife & self i would never hunt deer from a tree again. I have had success on the ground but have missed being in a tree. Shoot, I was so committed to not getting in a tree I gave my Alpha and LW sticks to a young hunter.

Well after thorough research and incorporating my brother (he is a nationally recognized OSHA instructor) I pulled the plug and bought a kestrel. I would tell you saddle Hunting done correctly is safe.

You are right this is a great group of gents. We all agree, disagree kid each other etc., but it is done in a respectful manner.

 

[Ken Ruppel]

I'm a newbie to the saddle myself as I haven't actually hunted from my Kestrel but I do have it where I really like it and would be comfortable hunting from it. I owe a lot of thanks to the guys on this forum for there wealth of info. Looking back to when I first got my saddle it was intimidating and bulky. My first focus was the bridge to get rid of caribiners, a fixed bridge is nice but maybe not for everyone. The most useful addition is a ropeman 1 or even 2 of them. It's all a little intimidating but get comfortable at ground level then worry about moving up. The best thing in our favor is we have all summer to perfect it. Don't give up, there is a little learning curve.

 

[Matt G.]

Thanks for the responses guys. I'll have s chance to get in a tree this weekend, and will likely have more questions.

 

[Matt G.]

I'm a newbie to the saddle myself as I haven't actually hunted from my Kestrel but I do have it where I really like it and would be comfortable hunting from it. I owe a lot of thanks to the guys on this forum for there wealth of info. Looking back to when I first got my saddle it was intimidating and bulky. My first focus was the bridge to get rid of caribiners, a fixed bridge is nice but maybe not for everyone. The most useful addition is a ropeman 1 or even 2 of them. It's all a little intimidating but get comfortable at ground level then worry about moving up. The best thing in our favor is we have all summer to perfect it. Don't give up, there is a little learning curve.

Thanks Ken. Question......what do you use the Ropeman (or two of them) for?

 

[Ontariofarmer]

Thanks Ken. Question......what do you use the Ropeman (or two of them) for?

The ropeman is used to adjust the linemans belt or tree tether or both. It replaces the blakes hitch on those two ropes. It makes adjusting those super easy. It is the most common and useful addition to the kestrel. If I was going to change or add anything to a kestrel that is the first thing I would suggest.
Welcome aboard. OH and As @huck72412 I am abrasive. I have a lot of calluses on my hands from farming.

 

[ImThere]

Mattg Wrote:
Evening Guys,

So I've been absorbing info for the last several months, not wanting to put the cart before the horse, since I didn't even own a saddle.
Awesome welcome to the site

I'd first like to say how impressed I am with this forum. I've long abandoned another hunting forum frequented by Michigan sportsman, due to the tenor of the discourse. It's refreshing how humbly members share advice, tips, and knowledge......without condescending "know-it-all" attitudes. Quite a contrast from the other forum I'm referring to.

So my Kestral has arrived (just in time to be the second best saddle apparently), and I'm ready to start the learning process. I thought that it would be a pretty quick learning curve, but I haven't even left the ground yet! I'm now looking for some tips from the brain pool here to get me started.

I hunt 80% of the time on private land where I have the ability to preset trees. My property is 40 acres of a 70 acre woodlot, which as a whole is an island amongst AG fields in the Thumb. Deer concentration is very high, and stealth entry is a must. For this reason, I plan on using screw in steps for ascent. I'm still not sure on what type of platform I'll utilize, but I have my head wrapped around that variable.

I also spend 20% or so of my time on 15 acres of private land that abuts 500+ acres of state land in the Gladwin area. I'd like to employ "Sam's method" of ascent/descent for my mobile setups. This is where I start to get lost.

My main concern is safety. I'll gladly sacrifice weight or cost to ensure that I'm safe. Comfort and ease of use are tied for second in importance. With these things in mind, I have a few questions......

-Are screw in steps a satisfactorily safe method of ascent and descent for a novice saddle hunter?
Yes absolutely How ever I would recommend bolts after watching @IkemanTX at saddleploosa

-Assuming I use "Sam's method" of tree access, I'm confused about how the ropes are secured to the tree. This might make more sense once I actually try to get up a tree, but right now I dont quite understand how his lines are secured. I'm very familiar with climbing stands, so this method makes sense to me, just can't quite figure out how the lines stay tight on the tree.
Tree Choke like a tether. Tension holds it tight

--Is Sam using his tether as the top rope? If not, what role should I buy for top and bottom ropes, and where should I buy it?
both ropes would be considered Tethers

-Are there any particular knots that I need to learn in order to implement Sam's method?

-Finally, with safety being a concern, is the Kestral ready to use right out of the box, or is there safety measures that I need to take to be sure that it's ready to be put into service? Do I need to check the knots? Similar to my insistence of never climbing into a tree stand I didn't hang, I have a hard time using this saddle without checking the knots. The problem is that I'm not familiar with the knots, and my inspection certainly doesn't ensure my safety.
Ready to use

This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as questions that I have......but I'll start with these

Thanks in advance for the thoughtful and informative responses I'm sure I'll receive.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

-Assuming I use "Sam's method" of tree access, I'm confused about how the ropes are secured to the tree. This might make more sense once I actually try to get up a tree, but right now I dont quite understand how his lines are secured. I'm very familiar with climbing stands, so this method makes sense to me, just can't quite figure out how the lines stay tight on the tree.
Tree Choke like a tether. Tension holds it tight

@ImThere has answered well. I would add that am not sure many use the Sam's method to climb because it seems to be somewhat time consuming and difficult. I am sure it works for Sam but I am not sure it has been a positive experience for any one else that I know of. I could be wrong about that.
The appealing part of his method is the pack-ability and how light it is.
@sampotter might comment . I would be interested in what he would say.

 

[Ken Ruppel]

Thanks Ken. Question......what do you use the Ropeman (or two of them) for?

In the beginning as far as just hanging to get comfortable in the saddle, using the prussic knot on the tether is ok but most will replace the prussic with a ropeman 1 for ease of adjustment for comfort when hunting.
If you haven't used a linesman rope for ascending or descending it is a pain without a ropeman. The ropeman is easily adjusted with one hand, it's a must have after you have used one. Make sure it is the Ropeman 1 and not the #2. There is a thread on here for a sale on them now.

 

[Ken Ruppel]

In the beginning as far as just hanging to get comfortable in the saddle, using the prussic knot on the tether is ok but most will replace the prussic with a ropeman 1 for ease of adjustment for comfort when hunting.
If you haven't used a linesman rope for ascending or descending it is a pain without a ropeman. The ropeman is easily adjusted with one hand, it's a must have after you have used one. Make sure it is the Ropeman 1 and not the #2. There is a thread on here for a sale on them now.

Man I'm slow, thanks @Ontariofarmer. I hope this helps @Matt G.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

Man I'm slow, thanks @Ontariofarmer. I hope this helps @Matt G.

A good reminder to buy the ropeman 1. It is supposed to be used with rope greater than 10 mm. The rope that comes with the Kestrel is greater than 10 mm

 

[EricS]

The Sam potter method is another one of those that you would need to invest considerable time into to even decide if it’s a viable option to you. It doesn’t look like much fun but you could climb high without much weight. Most of the alternative methods of climbing will be that way. I think everyone that uses rope for a linesmans belt hunting should use a ropeman. Even those hunting from hang ons. I try not to be abrasive but when you deal with @huck72412 ling enough with all his secrets it kind of makes you that way.

 

[Nutterbuster]

Also, since you state your highest priority is safety, and your next priority is comfort and ease of use, I might look at some sticks. Definitely would be easier to use than Sam's method. Heavier, but less of a hassle.

And while im very excited about the tethrd gear, I wouldn't say your Kestrel is 2nd best just yet. The Kestrel was made by folks who make arborist gear. They know a thing or three about safety. Only real difference I can see so far on the mantis is mesh and different buckles.

 

[redsquirrel]

Welcome to the site! To add my 2 cents, screw in steps are a great option for climbing when you're allowed. I use them all the time. A big advantage is that you can have as many trees ready to go as you are willing to prep. As far as Sam's method, I would look at something simpler for yourself as a beginner. There are lots of ways to climb the tree but I'd work on becoming proficient with your saddle first and build up your system from there. For everything you do I recommend to practice and get comfortable at ground level and work your way up from there.

 

[EricS]

Like redsquirrel said start at ground level. You do need to know how to inspect your knots. I have a stopper knot on the end of my tether but also tie a slip knot just below my prussik and hook the loop back into my carabiner. I grabbed the prussik know once and pulled to readjust and went for a ride. I was only 1.5 foot off the ground and all I had to do was let go of the prussik but I fell fast enough and my hand got hot enough that I always tie some kind of knot 6-8 inches below my prussik. Things like that are good to learn close to the ground.

 

[donnieballgame]

I'm surprised Red didn't talk about proper use of screw in steps, I don't use them as I hunt public land but I know there is a correct way and incorrect way to use them. I would say regardless of how you climb you should always be tied in, whether that's a lineman belt or a safety line, even with screw-ins they flex, red can hopefully make sure I'm not way off.

I think I'm probably one of the few that really gave the Sam method a go, it is very difficult and it didnt take me long to give up, lol. I used SRT for presets and an XOP hand climber for run and gun and I'm hoping to add some Wild Edge Stepps to the tool box for this year.

Good luck it's a lot of fun and welcome to the forum!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Nutterbuster]

Lots of good advice headed at you. I'll add that screw ins are good, but grade 8 bolts are much more gooder. Much stronger, easier to pack, and 15 with an EZkut drill will let you hunt all the trees your little heart desires. Screw ins get expensive FAST. 3/8th, 6", grade 8 hex bolts are $1.50 at my local hardware store. Same price as steps if you want to leave them in a tree, and only $25 plus the cost of a drill bit to hunt all the way up to 30ft if you reuse them.

If you preset, they're just as fast as steps. If you don't, I can get to hunt ting height in about 17 minutes. I dont think Sam's method will be any quicker.

 

[redsquirrel]

I'm surprised Red didn't talk about proper use of screw in steps, I don't use them as I hunt public land but I know there is a correct way and incorrect way to use them. I would say regardless of how you climb you should always be tied in, whether that's a lineman belt or a safety line, even with screw-ins they flex, red can hopefully make sure I'm not way off.

I think I'm probably one of the few that really gave the Sam method a go, it is very difficult and it didnt take me long to give up, lol. I used SRT for presets and an XOP hand climber for run and gun and I'm hoping to add some Wild Edge Stepps to the tool box for this year.

Good luck it's a lot of fun and welcome to the forum!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

When you put screw in steps in you need to make sure that the bottom L is in contact with the tree. If it is not touching the tree it will flex and it may break. I have seen people put them in with a 1" gap and that is just asking for it to break. Factor in the cold weather when they're more brittle and its a bad situation. I have never had 1 break on me when putting them in like this. The ultimate tree step tool is the best method for putting screw in steps in IMO.