Predator First Impression

[Babshaft]

That was an awesome write up kyler. I think you’re onto something. There needs to be exact instructions or it could probably use a beefier casting in that particular area. I see this as a similar incident to guys bending the standoffs on the stepps when camming over. Except more dangerous - if you’re standing on it. And steel bends where aluminum breaks.

 

[WARPONY]

That was an awesome write up kyler. I think you’re onto something. There needs to be exact instructions or it could probably use a beefier casting in that particular area. I see this as a similar incident to guys bending the standoffs on the stepps when camming over. Except more dangerous - if you’re standing on it. And steel bends where aluminum breaks.

Common sense has to kick in somewhere....when you turn off your water do you keep torquing it until your handle snaps off?

 

[kyler1945]

It's the angle of the picture. At best, the button is 2" below the back of the strap. I was able to get it VERY tight because I'm on the ground and can pull with my body weight. The strap was tight, and the bark is hard.

 

[d_rek]

Common sense has to kick in somewhere....when you turn off your water do you keep torquing it until your handle snaps off?

Common sense is a slippery slope when it comes to... well anything.

You have to assume people will use your products in completely unintended ways. They can and do.

I spent 3 years working for at an agency that helped launch children’s car booster seats. I was the primary illustrator for the instruction booklets packaged with the seats. The installation instructions had to be virtually idiot proof(nothing is idiot proof) to both meet NHTSA safety standards and cover the companies a** legally. I remember doing 30+ iterations if the same illustrations to satisfy legal requirements for something as simple as pushing a button.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing is idiot proof, and common sense is a myth. People are way stupider than you you could ever fathom. Do not give anyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to product use and instruction on how to use properly.

Though I will refrain from commenting on the actual product and other people’s experiences until I have one in my hand and can test it myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[redsquirrel]

Nothing, I repeat, nothing is idiot proof, and common sense is a myth.

Common sense is certainly not common.

 

[kyler1945]

I want to be clear about something else. They offer a money back guarantee. And by all accounts seem like great guys. I am in no way trying to convince someone not to buy something and try it. And most definitely don't cancel an order. I'm giving my opinion, on a subject that I hope would be taken into consideration when testing or using the equipment. See if it does what you're looking for, and if it doesn't they'll make it right with you. If it does, then happy hunting.

This is an opinion, about certain facts. Other folks will have different opinions. But I wouldn't feel good if I didn't share my experience.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I want to be clear about something else. They offer a money back guarantee. And by all accounts seem like great guys. I am in no way trying to convince someone not to buy something and try it. And most definitely don't cancel an order. I'm giving my opinion, on a subject that I hope would be taken into consideration when testing or using the equipment. See if it does what you're looking for, and if it doesn't they'll make it right with you. If it does, then happy hunting.

This is an opinion, about certain facts. Other folks will have different opinions. But I wouldn't feel good if I didn't share my experience.

That is what I like about this site... We are all entitled to our opinion and thanks for giving yours.

 

[TonyGreenway]

For what it's worth, I want to point out that both failures we've seen thus far would not have resulted in the platform falling. At worst, it would have slid down a tiny amount, but I don't see a real risk of it coming out from under the hunter. The weak spot is obviously the toothed wings, and if they both snap completely off, the platform is still bolted to the upright, and the upright is still strapped to the tree. Yes, it would probably slide a little, but it wouldn't really go anywhere. I am usually accused of "safety overkill", and I definitely understand everyone's concerns. However, I've seen a lot of awesome (and maybe a little crazy) DIY jobs on this forum, and I've practically had anxiety attacks from some of them. This platform doesn't concern me NEARLY as much. LOL Read all of the reviews, consider all of your options, and make an informed decision. What's right for one person may not be what's right for the next. Whatever you decide, TIE IN BEFORE STEPPING ONTO YOUR PLATFORM!!! ANY platform. We all know we're supposed to. We also know we don't all do it. Be safe, and good luck this season!

P.S.
I encourage everyone to provide honest reviews of the gear they use, as @kyler1945 has. It helps others weigh their options and make an informed decision. It also gives valuable feedback to the manufacturers.

 

[WARPONY]

Common sense is a slippery slope when it comes to... well anything.

You have to assume people will use your products in completely unintended ways. They can and do.

I spent 3 years working for at an agency that helped launch children’s car booster seats. I was the primary illustrator for the instruction booklets packaged with the seats. The installation instructions had to be virtually idiot proof(nothing is idiot proof) to both meet NHTSA safety standards and cover the companies a** legally. I remember doing 30+ iterations if the same illustrations to satisfy legal requirements for something as simple as pushing a button.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing is idiot proof, and common sense is a myth. People are way stupider than you you could ever fathom. Do not give anyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to product use and instruction on how to use properly.

Though I will refrain from commenting on the actual product and other people’s experiences until I have one in my hand and can test it myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I guess we can put that in the same category as cell phone insurance...you get a case and beat the crap out of it but you are always calling the insurance company for a replacement phone....they eventually cut you off lol

 

[kyler1945]

Common sense has to kick in somewhere....when you turn off your water do you keep torquing it until your handle snaps off?

You're presenting a false equivalency. If I overtighten my water faucet, I might get a leaky faucet. There's also a 100 years of people generally turning off faucets in a certain manner, and it's ingrained in you from childhood.

If I put 125lbs on this instead of 100lbs, it might mean the difference in a broken rib. I'm pretty aware, and pay attention. Do you think every person who uses this platform will know the amount of force they're putting on there? Do you think there's a few hundred or thousand people out there who have put way more force on lockons and different platforms and that's "common" to them? Do you think there's not a few hundred or thousand people who will assume the margin for error is much wider than is now being walked back? I do.

The instructions don't have to be idiot proof. They can't be. But acting as if common sense is not being applied here is not a great stance to take.

I understand the nuance the fellows are putting out there. I'm not so sure everyone will.

 

[Tjraley2]

I found that by pushing down on the platform with just my hands, and camming over with just my hands, did not get the platform tight enough not to move when loading up one side or the other. It also creaked and popped quite a bit. I can also generate as much force with my arms as I put just now with my feet, easily. Some of the 300 pounders out there can probably generate more force than my body weight. I did it this way a handful of times while messing around in the yard. If I didn't, the platform would move or scrape against the tree when side loading it.

I had no intentions of putting the platform higher than a few feet off the ground until I got the full rundown on what tests were performed, and what the results of those tests were.

I get that you can push down with your hands, and pull down with your hands. I get that some folks that will get the platform tight enough to not move that way. It was not even close for me.

I said on several occasions its a piece of kit that would require some thought to use. I stand by that assessment. It won't be in my pack. It is not that it won't work for some folks. It's that the margin for error is quite thin to be used at 30' for me. And I wouldn't let any of my family or friends do it without a thorough explanation of what the risks are. I'd still probably kick and scream. Put simply, the rear portions of this platform cannot handle the weight of the average person accept in the fully cammed position, and only pushing straight down on top of the platform. In this position the weight is distributed evenly across the platform, bolt, post, etc. I feel confident in this position it won't break. My guess is any load higher than 100lbs at the edge of the platform while camming "could" cause this failure.

And for me I think about it like this:

I can stand or hang on one step or the other of my muddy stick with no problem. I can stand or hang on any part of a jim stepp with no problem. I can stand or hang on my assassin or assault - base or seat - with no problem. I can hang from any rope in my kit with no problem.

Yes, All of the above can be misused and I could be injured misusing them. But I can't break them doing things considered part of the "real world" application.

Good luck and be safe folks!

I also stand by my original assessment that some more beef in these high stress areas would eliminate my concerns, and likely those on the legal team of the manufacturer. I'm not here to poopoo on someone's parade. I'm here to give my honest opinion on a product. I think it came up short in the most important criteria for success - common sense safety.

There is no doubt in my mind that a very likely scenario may be: Someone will pull down on their platform standing on their last step. The platform won't quite go down all the way. They'll say to hell with it and figure it'll finish camming over as they step on it, and do just that. That piece will break (and if its a big fella, it will break more violently than what I experienced), and they could slip and fall. Lots of hard sharp objects to bump into before the lineman's or tether catches. Not everyone who buys from the website will visit this forum.

Thanks for your update! Looking at your pics, it appears that the failure would not have been catastrophic because the post itself seems firmly bit into the tree. As in it appears the platform wouldn’t have just dropped out from under you due to the design. Would you agree?

Haven’t gotten mine yet and curious to hear the full risk factor.

 

[ricky racer]

Myself, I think the basic design of the Predator is fantastic. The layout, size and method of attachment couldn't be better. I really think they hit the nail on the head on the design but I feel they fell short on the execution of the cast aluminum platform. Tethrd, in my view is wanting to be the "lightweight" leaders in the industry. Everything is stressed as "lightweight, lightweight, lightweight". I really wish they were more geared towards making the Predator a good, solid, safe stand and let the DIYers shave off weight if they feel saving a few ounces is worth it. If the Predator weighed 5 lbs. I doubt anyone here would complain. Well, there would be some complainers but I think Tethrd should let the DIYers reduce the weight. Maybe that would shield them from liability if someone got hurt using their platform.
The push to save weight has to be tempered with good sense, good engineering and testing. From my examination of my Predator, I feel the only thing that needs to be fixed is the cast platform. The post and bat wing is more than adequate in my view only the cast platform is inadequate to support a persons weight at hunting height. We've had 2 known failures of the platform and that was just from attaching it to a tree that caused the failure!! I feel that if they address the platform issue, redesign it with much more beef, they'll have a killer product that fills a nitch that no one else is filling.

 

[WARPONY]

You're presenting a false equivalency. If I overtighten my water faucet, I might get a leaky faucet. There's also a 100 years of people generally turning off faucets in a certain manner, and it's ingrained in you from childhood.

If I put 125lbs on this instead of 100lbs, it might mean the difference in a broken rib. I'm pretty aware, and pay attention. Do you think every person who uses this platform will know the amount of force they're putting on there? Do you think there's a few hundred or thousand people out there who have put way more force on lockons and different platforms and that's "common" to them? Do you think there's not a few hundred or thousand people who will assume the margin for error is much wider than is now being walked back? I do.

The instructions don't have to be idiot proof. They can't be. But acting as if common sense is not being applied here is not a great stance to take.

I understand the nuance the fellows are putting out there. I'm not so sure everyone will.

Ye

You're presenting a false equivalency. If I overtighten my water faucet, I might get a leaky faucet. There's also a 100 years of people generally turning off faucets in a certain manner, and it's ingrained in you from childhood.

If I put 125lbs on this instead of 100lbs, it might mean the difference in a broken rib. I'm pretty aware, and pay attention. Do you think every person who uses this platform will know the amount of force they're putting on there? Do you think there's a few hundred or thousand people out there who have put way more force on lockons and different platforms and that's "common" to them? Do you think there's not a few hundred or thousand people who will assume the margin for error is much wider than is now being walked back? I do.

The instructions don't have to be idiot proof. They can't be. But acting as if common sense is not being applied here is not a great stance to take.

I understand the nuance the fellows are putting out there. I'm not so sure everyone will.

Youre making a false equivalency as if all people have faucets since childhood lol.

You're presenting a false equivalency. If I overtighten my water faucet, I might get a leaky faucet. There's also a 100 years of people generally turning off faucets in a certain manner, and it's ingrained in you from childhood.

If I put 125lbs on this instead of 100lbs, it might mean the difference in a broken rib. I'm pretty aware, and pay attention. Do you think every person who uses this platform will know the amount of force they're putting on there? Do you think there's a few hundred or thousand people out there who have put way more force on lockons and different platforms and that's "common" to them? Do you think there's not a few hundred or thousand people who will assume the margin for error is much wider than is now being walked back? I do.

The instructions don't have to be idiot proof. They can't be. But acting as if common sense is not being applied here is not a great stance to take.

I understand the nuance the fellows are putting out there. I'm not so sure everyone will.

Ok you want to argue semantics...im from a third world country and have never had any running water let alone a faucet....how is turning it off ingrained in me from childhood? Broken rib? tether in before you step on ANY platform or ring. o wait we dont have the common sense to do that yet...i forgot.

 

[Tjraley2]

Myself, I think the basic design of the Predator is fantastic. The layout, size and method of attachment couldn't be better. I really think they hit the nail on the head on the design but I feel they fell short on the execution of the cast aluminum platform. Tethrd, in my view is wanting to be the "lightweight" leaders in the industry. Everything is stressed as "lightweight, lightweight, lightweight". I really wish they were more geared towards making the Predator a good, solid, safe stand and let the DIYers shave off weight if they feel saving a few ounces is worth it. If the Predator weighed 5 lbs. I doubt anyone here would complain. Well, there would be some complainers but I think Tethrd should let the DIYers reduce the weight. Maybe that would shield them from liability if someone got hurt using their platform.
The push to save weight has to be tempered with good sense, good engineering and testing. From my examination of my Predator, I feel the only thing that needs to be fixed is the cast platform. The post and bat wing is more than adequate in my view only the cast platform is inadequate to support a persons weight at hunting height. We've had 2 known failures of the platform and that was just from attaching it to a tree that caused the failure. I feel that if they address the platform issue, redesign it with much more beef, they'll have a killer product that fills a nitch that no one else is filling.

2 failures out of 150 is no bueno. I’d take an extra pound if it meant 0 failures. Time will tell if the predator can hack it I suppose.

 

[redsquirrel]

Ye

Youre making a false equivalency as if all people have faucets since childhood lol.

Ok you want to argue semantics...im from a third world country and have never had any running water let alone a faucet....how is turning it off ingrained in me from childhood? Broken rib? tether in before you step on ANY platform or ring. o wait we dont have the common sense to do that yet...i forgot.

Enough. You guys want to talk about a broken platform, go for it. You want to argue about semantics? Go find another site to do it on.

 

[kyler1945]

Oh boy. Sorry Red - I think I went a scooch too far down the rabbit hole. I've said my piece on the topic and will bow out.

 

[BayouBeauxhunter]

2 failures out of 150 is no bueno. I’d take an extra pound if it meant 0 failures. Time will tell if the predator can hack it I suppose.

Guess it’s all how you look at it. 2 failures camming it the wrong way. 0 failures so far camming it down by hand and just having human weight on it while cammed down. I understand kyler’s point and I’m glad he shared his experience. I think it’s gonna be a feel thing. Time will tell though. Hopefully I’m right.

 

[Wirrex]

I didn’t order a predator. I hope the mantis is a home run.

 

[Babshaft]

Common sense has to kick in somewhere....when you turn off your water do you keep torquing it until your handle snaps off?

I agree with you buddy. The problem is not everybody has it all the time and with everything - you and me included.

I’m speaking from the standpoint of some one who wants all the success possible for tethrd. They need to beef it up - the platform, or the instructions. That way there is no chance for any one to make a mistake with it or get injured with it unknowingly.

 

[Erniepower]

Wow you guys really had some time on your hands this evening.

Let me start by saying nobody is less pleased with the failures we've seen than we are. Its driving me bonkers and I'm working on fixing it.

That being said, we always said we stand by whatever we send out and we mean it. If you break a predator platform, we'll replace it. Today tomorrow, five years from now. We'll replace it.

On the plus side, the failures we've seen aren't really dangerous. The pivot bolt and the main casting structure remain intact. If both teeth sections broke off, you would basically be left with an xop seat which we have all been using for a couple of years.

Look, we want you to use this stuff and beat it up. We want your feed back and ultimately we want saddle hunting to prosper. The best way for that to happen is for everyone to be involved. Everything we have developed was based on input from you guys and I totally expect to continue with the help and input of all Saddlehunters.

Let us know what you like and what you don't. We can take it. And we can use info that to continue to improve and ultimately get more people involved in the joy of saddle hunting.





Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk