Safe climbing

[NBK]

Hey guys first time poster long time reader first I gotta say I love the site and I am absolutely hooked on saddle hunting

I have built a couple of saddles and finally got it safe enough imo for my 13 yo son to start using

the thing that scares me the most with him is the climb

we practiced a bunch at ground level and one stick high before he ever attempted a full height climb And we use all preset sticks in his spots the heavy steel ladder type

right now I take him to his spot stay with him till he's hooked in and come back after the hunt while he is climbing down

I climb up hook on his teather and climb down then He uses a linesman belt from the ground all the way up and just has to hook into tether and we have done this 5 times this season without a problem

It would be nice not to walk into his spot with him and I have full confidence he can do this without me standing there but would like some added insurance

I am thinking since all his spots are pre set I am gonna leave ground length tethers and he can hook into his bridge on the ground and either hook up a ascender or blakes hitch that he can move up the rope as he climbs while hooked into a linesman belt

What would be best ascender for this ? he would have to hook up and take down ascender every time

or if he uses a blakes he can leave on rope and can keep it hooked while descending also

If he uses a blakes should I try and anchor the tether on bottom of tree so it isn't swaying and easier to move the blakes?

Just wondering what u guys think or if anybody climbs this way or has any other options that may be safer or more fool proof trying to take out any chance for error thanks guys

 

[g2outdoors]

The Ropeman 1 would be really good in this situation. Clip it on the rope, clip carabiner to saddle, climb.

If you'd rather rope, you could use Blake's or prussic. They both work very well and are simple to use. My 10 year old can do prussics, so I'm sure your boy would have no issues with them.

 

[NBK]

Could he use the ropeman as he is climbing down would it catch if he had some slack in his line in the event of a fall 1'-3'?

One of the safety measures I made him learn was all the knots in his system and he is quite proficient at them and he keeps pictures of all his knots on his phone so he can check

One of the next things on my list is some ropemans for me and him so will prob try a prusik until we order them

 

[NBK]

When I started with saddles I didn't take into account that he would be interested in using one so now I have to buy or build two of everything lol

We both love them and will not turn back I just notice myself looking at every tree to c if it would be good for a saddle or not wether on side of the road or in someone's front yard lol

 

[DXD]

I'm teaching my 13 yo too. I have him climb twice: once to set up the muddy sticks and base; and the second time with a Web worn over a rc harness with lineman belt.

In both climbs he uses both the linemans rope with ropeman 1 and the tether rope with two carabiners, two prusiks and one ropeman 1. The upper carabiner (for the bridge) is attached to the ropeman and a prusik attached above the ropeman. The lower carabiner is attached to the second prusik. The first climb (muddy stick install) : rc harness with lineman rope. Also tether rope attached to the belay of the rc harnes by the lower prusik/carabiner. He leads by raising the tether as high as he can than he moves the upper carabiner/ropeman/prusik all the way up the tether so that it in effect jams the tether loop connection to the tree which keeps the tether from slipping back down. Install a stick and repeat the process. He is connected to the tree twice ...about as safe as I can come up with. In the second climb he climbs via the same process but once at height he connects his Web bridge to the upper tether carabiner/ropeman /prusik and leaves the lower tether carabiner/prusik attached to the rc harness belay loop. I also have two castration bands on the tether for use at final height.

Rc harness worn with the web has added benefit of safely and easily allowing changing of upper layers of clothing.

 

[g2outdoors]

Could he use the ropeman as he is climbing down would it catch if he had some slack in his line in the event of a fall 1'-3'?

One of the safety measures I made him learn was all the knots in his system and he is quite proficient at them and he keeps pictures of all his knots on his phone so he can check

One of the next things on my list is some ropemans for me and him so will prob try a prusik until we order them

Yes. The ropeman would work well for that.

That's good to hear that he is proficient with knots.

If you're like me, safety belts and lines and harnesses and prussics and ropemans weren't even a thing growing up hunting. Your son is already MILES ahead of me when I was 13. It's tough not to worry, but you guys are doing all the right things.

 

[NBK]

I couldn't of done it without u guys I prob read every post on this site before I made up my mind to build one instead of buying a aero

I think hunters as a whole r a lot safer than we were 20 years ago I remember when I was his age my dad giving me a handful of screw in steps and a old hang on stand and saying good luck the deer r over there see ya at dark lol no harness linesman belt nothin

20 ft up a tree now as I type this waiting on mr big

 

[g2outdoors]

Me too. But I'm not waiting on Mr big tonight, anything brown will do.

 

[DIYSaddler]

If you're looking for some sort of mechanical prusik. Check out the C.A.M.P. lift.

 

[Soupy6914]

I'm assuming you are wanting him to stay tethered on the way Down as well. I don't know how well that would work with a ropeman. I have the ropeman 2 and have a hard time getting it to release to allow slack in the line. I don't know about the ropeman 1 (it may be better I haven't tried it). I would use a blakes hitch.

 

[DIYSaddler]

There's two problems with a blake's hitch.
1. It's not really ment for SRT type applications, there's a great video out there somewhere of a test of a blakes hitch durring a fall arrest situation with a 75lb weight where by they dropped the weight 3'. It failled misserably.

2. It's not a self tending system or a one handed tending system.

You should really check out the camp for this. As you climb with a small amount of weight at the bottom of the rope it will self tend and on the way back down he'll be about to just grab the camp life with one hand and pull down as he goes.
Here's a video of me climbing with it so you can see how easy it will tend it's way up the rope.

 

[brydan]

2. It's not a self tending system or a one handed

This isn't really too applicable to hunting because of noise but it was/is common with a Blakes in tree work to use a micro pulley to turn the Blakes into one handed operation

 

[Soupy6914]

There's two problems with a blake's hitch.
1. It's not really ment for SRT type applications, there's a great video out there somewhere of a test of a blakes hitch durring a fall arrest situation with a 75lb weight where by they dropped the weight 3'. It failled misserably.

2. It's not a self tending system or a one handed tending system.

You should really check out the camp for this. As you climb with a small amount of weight at the bottom of the rope it will self tend and on the way back down he'll be about to just grab the camp life with one hand and pull down as he goes.
Here's a video of me climbing with it so you can see how easy it will tend it's way up the rope.

Good to know about the drop test on set. I thought it was interesting that new tribe uses it for there tether.

 

[DIYSaddler]

Good to know about the drop test on set. I thought it was interesting that new tribe uses it for there tether.

The drop test was done on a Single Rope Technique system wher there's no extra distribution of force. With the New tripe saddle the blake's hitch is only on one side of the saddle so it will never take the full load of the fall and they have a stopper knot at the end as well wich would prevent the rope from being pulled throught the rigging plate. New Tribe makes a great product I'm just poor.
I would personally wand an distel or VT knot instead if I had a NT Saddle, but there's no accounting for personal taste.

 

[Soupy6914]

The drop test was done on a Single Rope Technique system wher there's no extra distribution of force. With the New tripe saddle the blake's hitch is only on one side of the saddle so it will never take the full load of the fall and they have a stopper knot at the end as well wich would prevent the rope from being pulled throught the rigging plate. New Tribe makes a great product I'm just poor.
I would personally wand an distel or VT knot instead if I had a NT Saddle, but there's no accounting for personal taste.

Ha ya I preferred a lot of knots over the blakes but the kid is 13 and the VT can be finicky

 

[DIYSaddler]

Ha ya I preferred a lot of knots over the blakes but the kid is 13 and the VT can be finicky

Since you're climbing up and setting these stands for the kid anyway have you thought about just leaving a piece of paracord in the tree to use as a pull-up rope and just get rid of the steps all together and he could DRT climb up to his hunting height. Then when he's done he can just lower on the blake's hitch?

 

[redsquirrel]

So I agree that a ground length tether is the way to go. Its just like the life safety line's people have started using for tree stands.

Here are a couple things that I think should be considered:
1. Since you are using this to catch him in the event of a fall, a dynamic climbing line would be more appropriate than a static line.
2. I think I would go with a prussic or something similar in this case. The ropeman1 is great for holding us and capturing progress, but is it really meant to catch us in a fall? I don't think so.

I'm hoping some of our climbing guru's will chime in on these thoughts.

 

[slammedberetta1]

So I agree that a ground length tether is the way to go. Its just like the life safety line's people have started using for tree stands.

Here are a couple things that I think should be considered:
1. Since you are using this to catch him in the event of a fall, a dynamic climbing line would be more appropriate than a static line.
2. I think I would go with a prussic or something similar in this case. The ropeman1 is great for holding us and capturing progress, but is it really meant to catch us in a fall? I don't think so.

I'm hoping some of our climbing guru's will chime in on these thoughts.

You can always back up the ropeman with a prusik or klemheist.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[redsquirrel]

You can always back up the ropeman with a prusik or klemheist.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

You could, but if you were going to do that for this purpose wouldn't you just use the prusik?

 

[DIYSaddler]

There's another option as well. I use this for if I've set a toprope for my wife or a new climber and they can't make it to the top of a climb and I need to get my gear back. Mostly because I don't trust brand new climbers with my life.
You can use a ATC guide and set it up in autoblock mode. As you climb you can pull the slack in on handed. Then when you are ready to come down you insert a lever into the front to lower yourself down..... On second thought a gri-gri would definately work better. But if you can't afford the gri-gri the ATC guide will do the same thing just not as smooth. But if he's a lightweight he shouldn't have the same issues that us girthy guys do.