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So you thought I was nuts when it came to the swaider/knaider.....

P

Peterk1234

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Massachusetts
Okay, hear me out on this one. I swore I was done with tinkering because the WE Steps and knaider/swaider combo are just the bees knees for me.

But there is just one thing about the steps that bug me, just a little. It is bark damage. So I started thinking about a way to use the knaider/swaider without them. What if we used a one inch strap with a cam buckle (like on climbing sticks) plus a flat hook at one of the strap for fast attachment to the tree. Now the strap would have two of the knaider hooks hanging off it. Instead of a hook on the knaider and a carabiner on swaider, we would use a ring, preferably triangle shaped. The knaider part would not attach around the calf, but would be similar to the swaider, but the hook at knee height. This would allow for better downward pressure and no chance to pull out away from the hook. This was one of my first concerns because the hook is so close to the tree, whereas it is a few inches away when hooked on the Step.

You would lose some climbing height with each one, about a foot and a half because it is only two steps, vs. three with the Steps (swaider/knaider/then Step), but who cares because this thing would weigh nothing and could be set up in a nanosecond. Five or six of them would get me to twenty feet.

Now before you think I am insane, picture the plastic strap on steps that are on the market (Bullman I think). While they work fine, don't tell me that they are not easy to slip off of. With this idea, there is no slipping.

I was not going to post anything until I really started to figure out the nuances, but you guys were so helpful with the swaider and knaider. I thought it would be a good idea to toss it out there so you guys can tear it up.

One concern I have is the downward pressure would scrunch the strap. My test run so far says it will be okay. I am going to actually sew the hook loop strap to the strap that goes around the tree next. That should solve any issues. I can always use an aluminum plate to add rigidity, but I do not believe it will be necessary.

Here is a pic or two of a very very very rough prototype. I had my daughter's boyfriend who weighs 250 pounds on this thing....... no problem.

Ignore the sewing job. Actual straps would be longer so it can be sewed up proper. Pete


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Why use the hooks and rings at all why not just use 2 chokers with foot loops and keep progressing up as you go one foot at a time. Stand in right loop move up left foot choker, stand on left foot choker move up right foot choker.

Honestly I think it would get tough to navigate with the linemans belt and all the straps trying to keep toe dug in and tension on linemans belt. If you get it worked out post up a video might be onto the newest craze.
 
Pete-
It looks like your evolution is headed towards a “carry as you go” multi-step aider version of the arc tree ladder. But it is strapped to your legs with a ring attachment point. Is that accurate or am I missing something?
 
Cajunyankee said:
Pete-
It looks like your evolution is headed towards a “carry as you go” multi-step aider version of the arc tree ladder. But it is strapped to your legs with a ring attachment point. Is that accurate or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure. I just looked up the arc tree ladder. I think I am going to be using much less stuff. Instead of a Step or a stick, I would use a strap with two hooks hanging off of it. Then use my knaider/aider (but would be modified to have rings instead of hooks) to "step" up. The arc looks like a lot of strap to be carrying around the woods.

I need to order some hardware so I can at least make up two of these and do a mini climb.
 
Hey Peter, excited to see you working on another idea. The first difficulty I can imagine is how stable will you be attaching the straps when you are off the ground? No longer will you be standing on a rock solid WE Stepp.

Coming down makes me nervous too.
 
@Peterk1234 might as well make the knaider side about shoulder height. Hook in at shoulder height then hip then knee. You could even go 7’ on the swaider side and make both of them two step aiders. I personally like having something solid to hold onto.
 
bj139 said:
Why not put the ring on the straps and use the swaider/knaider you already use for the steps?
Click to expand...

Good question. I think that the if the hook is on the leg then it could push against tree and push you off the ring. You would probably have to hook in from behind the loop and that would make it hard to unhook. Totally untested and unproven, so I will have to give it a try.
 
Peterk1234 said:
Good question. I think that the if the hook is on the leg then it could push against tree and push you off the ring. You would probably have to hook in from behind the loop and that would make it hard to unhook. Totally untested and unproven, so I will have to give it a try.
Click to expand...
Maybe a small aluminum block on the strap could hold it a half inch away from the tree.
 
This sounds interesting. Would you be using a linesman belt or tether and just keep moving it above you as you add more straps to the tree? It would definitely be very compact system.
 
What about using 2 inch seatbelt webbing and girth hitch it like a tether. 2 inch webbing should be more stable. Put your hooks on just below an adjustable and climb rated slider. You would just have to carry your platform then.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 
Brought to the next prototype level. It passed with flying colors. I sewed the loop holding the hook to the strap. This added a lot of structural integrity. Having the hook right against the tree added a good surprise; more stability. It was one of my biggest concerns because I would be giving up the platform each WE Step provides as I climb. I may add a knaider height hook to the swaider so I can distribute my weight as I stand to set up the next "whatever I will call this", but I am not sure at this point.

It works well enough at this juncture that I need to order parts so I can make at least three of these for a full test.

One of the things you guys may be questioning is trying to hook such a small loop. For me it is not an issue because, as a safety measure, when I use the knaider/swaider I use my hands to hook the knaider. This is done during ascent and descent. It is purely a safety measure to make sure it is properly hooked, but part of my process nonetheless.

I will eventually make a video.

Also, just to be clear, the red aiders in the pic will eventually be attached to me . Just like a knaider and the swaider. Also, the tree strap will have a flat hook at the end of the strap that is currently permanently attached to the cam so you would not have to thread the strap. Pete

20191204_170557.jpg
 
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