troubleshooting after miss

[mschultz373]

meant to verify too that meat is OK. assuming she died after shot around 6pm Jan 4. quartered out Jan 5 at 2pm. Temps were in around 40F overnight and climbed to 64F Jan 5 at time of quartering. meat smells but not foul or soured, just more odorous than I remember is typical? on ice after I got out and since. since I was trying to move so fast I got more hair and some leaves than I would've preferred - so I'll have to wash it off tomorrow.

 

[Horn]

I'm in the north and not an expert anyway but I think you're OK for meat. I left my first one over night too, it was only about 50 by the time I got to breaking her down but it's belly was swollen and stinky, I hit stomach. It was fine in my case.

Maybe one of the Florida or Alabama guys can chime in, I bet @Nutterbuster says it's good to go

 

[mschultz373]

I removed the meat from the pack out bag I used and I think culprit was blood pooled at the bottom.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

thanks again for the encouragement everybody! yes, I use the stinger buzzcuts with the bleeders. i have G5 mega meat expandables but haven't shot anything with them.

You’re prooooooooooobably okay but I would make sure you are generating enough kinetic energy to shoot those G5 expandables. The mega meats are kinda an exception because they have a ridiculous cut even when closed, but 60# is on the teetering edge of not being enough to shoot a regular expandable, depending on your draw length and speed, arrow setup, etc. I would go to an archery shop and ask them to peek at your setup if you want to shoot expandables. Maybe order a low-KE version of whatever head you like.
Some of those expandables are just devastating if the shot is in the soft & squishies. I’ve shot low-KE killzones out of a 50# bow at 26” draw, they worked great. I’m now shooting 60# and I won’t shoot a standard expandable out of it but I do shoot grim reaper expandables from my crossbow and they’re just evil.

 

[Yimmyb60]

thanks again for the encouragement everybody! yes, I use the stinger buzzcuts with the bleeders. i have G5 mega meat expandables but haven't shot anything with them.

Congratulations!

I see a lot of recommendations on here but from what I see it was a good shot, with a good broadhead but no exit so blood trail wasn't enough to follow.

It happens.

Magnus makes good broadheads, they come sharp but I've noticed a burr that seems to come off when you sight in. I usually strop and place back in quiver.

I've killed 3 this year with black hornet ser razor with bleeders and 1 with a sawtooth A2. All 3 magnus kills had exits and 2 had blood within a foot of impact. A low exit really helps with blood trails. First(spike pic) went 50yds, 2nd (bloodtrail pic) went 75 on a directly downward angled heartshot and 3rd (ribs pic) went over100 and bedded down on a single lung/liver hit. The first two died within a few minutes. The 3rd I had to wait a couple hours. In this case the broadhead did its job but I didn't. The ribs are from the 3rd deer I shot and had poor placement. quartering too, deer jumped and i hit neck, shoulder and lung/liver.

And all broadheads could be used again once resharpened.

The A2 kill (hanging deer photo) was extremely sharp and deer didn't know it was shot and died within 10 feet of being shot but took a couple minutes to expire.

 

[mschultz373]

You’re prooooooooooobably okay but I would make sure you are generating enough kinetic energy to shoot those G5 expandables. The mega meats are kinda an exception because they have a ridiculous cut even when closed, but 60# is on the teetering edge of not being enough to shoot a regular expandable, depending on your draw length and speed, arrow setup, etc. I would go to an archery shop and ask them to peek at your setup if you want to shoot expandables. Maybe order a low-KE version of whatever head you like.
Some of those expandables are just devastating if the shot is in the soft & squishies. I’ve shot low-KE killzones out of a 50# bow at 26” draw, they worked great. I’m now shooting 60# and I won’t shoot a standard expandable out of it but I do shoot grim reaper expandables from my crossbow and they’re just evil.

The Mega Meats were recommended by the local bow shop I used. I’m not pleased with their help. They just sold me arrows and heads and said I’d be good! My arrow and bow specs are given earlier here. I’ll experiment after season with a heavier arrow setup and/or raise my draw weight to 70lbs

 

[Dmathews87]

meant to verify too that meat is OK. assuming she died after shot around 6pm Jan 4. quartered out Jan 5 at 2pm. Temps were in around 40F overnight and climbed to 64F Jan 5 at time of quartering. meat smells but not foul or soured, just more odorous than I remember is typical? on ice after I got out and since. since I was trying to move so fast I got more hair and some leaves than I would've preferred - so I'll have to wash it off tomorrow.

we've been lucky enough to have some decently cool weather so i think you're good, especially if you made quick work of her and got her on ice. If i was you i would leave it in a fridge or cooler (below 40 degrees of course) for another day or 2 and just make sure its not going to get any weird discoloration or odors. cook a small batch and feed it to a buddy first to make sure he dont get the s*** lol

by the way i shoot magnus stingers and love them but i use 125gr and TAW 450gr. every deer ive shot has gotten a pass through like a hot knife through butter. Go see Ronnie at american hunter in covington, he'll set you straight.

 

[mschultz373]

we've been lucky enough to have some decently cool weather so i think you're good, especially if you made quick work of her and got her on ice. If i was you i would leave it in a fridge or cooler (below 40 degrees of course) for another day or 2 and just make sure its not going to get any weird discoloration or odors. cook a small batch and feed it to a buddy first to make sure he dont get the s*** lol

by the way i shoot magnus stingers and love them but i use 125gr and TAW 450gr. every deer ive shot has gotten a pass through like a hot knife through butter. Go see Ronnie at american hunter in covington, he'll set you straight.

So if I switched to 125gr we’d be dead even on TAW! I wanna play around with inserts at front

I went with a shop in Metairie that I won’t name but would be obvious as the only archery shop in Metairie. I don’t think I got the attention and help I really needed.

 

[Dmathews87]

So if I switched to 125gr we’d be dead even on TAW! I wanna play around with inserts at front

I went with a shop in Metairie that I won’t name but would be obvious as the only archery shop in Metairie. I don’t think I got the attention and help I really needed.

I just went with a heavier arrow,FMJs,but I do want to play with an axis build and inserts...Ronnie is by the far the best I've been to in awhile,super attentive and knowledgeable and does honest work. Jamie over at archery and fishing unlimited is good too but hammond may be a drive for you. They also sell a bunch of saddle stuff at american hunter too fyi and pretty sure those guys all saddle hunt.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

The Mega Meats were recommended by the local bow shop I used. I’m not pleased with their help. They just sold me arrows and heads and said I’d be good! My arrow and bow specs are given earlier here. I’ll experiment after season with a heavier arrow setup and/or raise my draw weight to 70lbs

Honestly, I would confirm good arrow flight with your hunting arrows before doing too much with draw weight. The biggest mistake I made early on was thinking I had to draw 70 pounds to kill a deer. My shoulders don't thank me for that now. Sixty pounds is plenty. I bet 90% of the folks bowhunting today shoot 60 pounds. My heavy compound is 60 and on a good day I can draw it smoothly, but I also have a 44 pound bow set up the same as the 60 and it works very well with a 580 grain arrow at 22% FOC and a Grizzly single bevel. If you can comfortably draw 70 pounds from a seated position without sky drawing or straining, then go for it. If not, then I'd stick with 60 and get a good heavy (heavier) arrow with a
good cut on contact head post season and go from there. If you plan to keep hunting off the ground being able to draw slow and smooth will be very important.

 

[mschultz373]

these are the arrows I have and use. Easton 6.5mm carbons. 300spine, 9.5GPI @ ~30" from nock to collar, collar is 23grains. w/ `100gr Magnus or Mega meats = ~408gr TAW? Sound about right?

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

View attachment 98126
these are the arrows I have and use. Easton 6.5mm carbons. 300spine, 9.5GPI @ ~30" from nock to collar, collar is 23grains. w/ `100gr Magnus or Mega meats = ~408gr TAW? Sound about right?

If calculating TAW i sometimes forget the weight of the fletchings (about 3gr per vane for blazers I think) and whatever nock you shoot to hunt. I think mine are about 15gr. That affects your FOC calculation as well as TAW obviously.
Also, those arrows are plenty good quality. Big fan of the Easton carbons of any variety. 60# is still quite a pull in a cold January tree or if your saddle isn’t set quite comfortably, btw. I’m a pretty strong guy and on a few occasions, even shooting almost every day, I had trouble getting past my peak draw due to shoulder/clothing/angle issues while pulling back. Cost me at least two deer that I know of. Just food for thought, do what’s comfortable, repeatable, and as my auntie would say, “un-frigg-up-able”.

 

[Horn]

408 is probably close. I was shooting 300 spine easton 6.5 with 75gr brass insert and a 125 head last year and right around 500 gr TAW. Also I think a blazer is more like 6 grains each but I didn't weigh one or look it up

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

Also I think a blazer is more like 6 grains each but I didn't weigh one or look it up

Just did. You’re right.

 

[Horn]

Just did. You’re right.

It's a sickness. I've got all sorts of random tid bits like that floating around in my melon. Can't tell you why I went to the grocery store though

 

[thedutchtouch]

Seems like maybe a move to a different forum section is in order, eh mods?

Strong work sticking with it, glad you found her.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

View attachment 98126
these are the arrows I have and use. Easton 6.5mm carbons. 300spine, 9.5GPI @ ~30" from nock to collar, collar is 23grains. w/ `100gr Magnus or Mega meats = ~408gr TAW? Sound about right?

I am using the Easton 6.5 340 spine cut 28.25" carbon to carbon. Stock insert and a 155 Grizzly single bevel on a 100 grain steel adapter (260 grain head). It is a very simple setup and has been working great for me. They fly like darts out of both my 60# and 44# Mathews Heli M bows.

 

[krub6b]

Congrats on finding her even with all the ground shrinkage lol. My first thought on your arrows performance is to strip the vanes off one shaft and do some bareshaft tuning. If the shop who set you up didn't go through this process with you then you may have some tuning issues affecting your performance, and if they did go through this step when you picked up the bow and started your archery journey, then you may have "settled" into your form and need to tweak your tune for how you are anchoring and gripping the bow now. Once you know your tune is good, then tinkering with point weight and inserts and even different arrows become viable options depending on your goals.

 

[7mmremmag]

i am really thankful to have you guys. thanks to each of you for your thoughtful replies. as i've said in other threads, I didn't grow up hunting, nor bowhunting or even doing archery, so this is all unchartered territory for me. and I don't have a local mentor that I've gone bowhunting/shopping/shooting with who is also a hunter. so i am appreciative of the help and feedback you guys provide. my goal is to become a responsible and skilled bowhunter, so i am eager to learn from my mistakes as best as I can.

Glad you found her! Good ending to a situation that is certainly a learning experience. You have the right mindset man. If you weren't so far away, I'd invite you to tag along for some scouting trips.

For learning more about blood trailing, watch the guys that have dog tracking youtube channels. They tend to talk about the decisions they make with the dogs and what they find. Blood trailing is their hobby and there tends to be some good tidbits of info in real time with the situation as it unfolds in the video.

 

[casts_by_fly]

congrats on finding her! Now you've got some experience under your belt.

I shoot a similar setup to you- 100 gr magnus (ser razors, 4 blade) and around 415 grains or so. I'm shooting 60# and I'm getting about 265 fps (27" draw). I bet you're pushing 280 or maybe more with that long draw length. That's plenty of energy for pass throughs for most shots. The two does I shot last year and the first buck this year didn't pass through, but in all three cases I buried the broadhead in either the far shoulder or in the brisket. In all three cases the deer was dead in < 10 seconds. Two does this year and a buck last year all zipped straight through. A heavier arrow would penetrate better, but these fly so well I'm not going to mess with them.

That's the first thing I would do in your case- paper tune, bare shaft tune, and walkback tune. There's no reason you can't get perfect bullets out of it so if you're not shooting them now you need to get there first. Second, the guys are right above about magnus being sharp but not scary sharp out of the pack. I sharpened last years broadheads before the season. I lost one and chipped one on my 7 pt this year so I ordered another pack. I thought the new ones were plenty sharp until I felt the ones I had touched up. I don't quite go to mirror finish but I do go to 1000 grit paper. I'm absolutely confident it makes a difference.

As for placement, I wouldn't do much differently than you did. Its tougher to tell from a picture and from a deer laying on the ground exactly what happened and what you hit. I always inspect the organs when I take them out to see just what was cut. Based on where that hole is, if the deer was perfectly broadside to you then that's a double lung pass through every day. I'd maybe prefer 2" lower, maybe an inch forward, but we're splitting hairs here. Given the lack of pass through, I suspect that there is a combination of poor arrow flight and/or the deer partially quartering away. You're high enough that quartering away would hit the scapula on the way out and could stop the arrow. if the deer is more broadside but the arrow hit at an angle it would push up into the scapula area too. Its still a lung/double lung but high and forward on the lungs has less blood vessels. You might have only caught a single lung also and the lack of tracking blood would have helped you in that case- you gave up which gave the deer time to go lay down and die instead of running forever. We'll never know for sure, but I wouldn't worry about where you stuck the arrow in her.