Turnabout is fair play.

[Sparrowhawk]

So that's how it's gonna be...
censorship and stacking the deck.
Good thing this isn't the only game in town.
Or the town would be North Korea.

 

[ADP2413]

So that's how it's gonna be...
censorship and stacking the deck.
Good thing this isn't the only game in town.
Or the town would be North Korea.

Boswell is right .... his post was not derogatory in any way. It was bound to happen , money does these kind of things. IMO New Tribe has a much better product , you can tell just from the videos... just look at them side by side , you can see the higher quality of work in the Kestrel. Its a shame to see whats going on in the other thread that has been locked down. For my money I will only be using New Tribe products.


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[redsquirrel]

Despite what you guys think there was no intended censorship on the other thread. There were negative attacks directed at Bobby and the thread was quickly going downhill so I deleted everything but the original post. I have since revived the post but it is now locked down.

 

[redsquirrel]

So that's how it's gonna be...
censorship and stacking the deck.
Good thing this isn't the only game in town.
Or the town would be North Korea.

I just want to point out that you've put me in a no win situation. Ultimately this thread will turn south and I will have to delete it. I truly try to keep this a good natured and friendly site to visit.

 

[rambotogo]

I can see how Bobby must feel but if a product does not have a patient, the design can be copied. Not much you can do except keep making quality gear that is well made and will stand the rigors of outdoor use. I do own a Kestrel and I like it just as it is. Best of luck to all the saddle companies out there and please remember it takes only one accident from a saddle to put you out of business. ie [treesuit]

 

[jryser]

Red u do a fantastic job. When we put our hearts and souls into our passions, emotions will trump our thoughts and we react sometimes. Human nature. I’m learning a lot from the growing pains of the great products and great people who create and sell them on this list. Reminds me of Chevy or Ford, Benelli or Beretta, Hoyt or Mathews...

Ultimately our fierce loyalties define our own passion and I know this will all settle into something great because there are a lot - including myself - who have gotten so much from “both sides” - and I don’t personally choose either one!

I’m a better saddle hunter because people put up videos for us for no other reason than to be helpful. THAT is the spirit of this forum. It’s why I do mine and it’s why I do music for shows like The Hunting Public!! Passion and a joy of helping others.

I consider this list a brotherhood and brothers sometimes fight - even viscously -but become closer in the end.

I’m certain this will happen here, too.

Thank you Red for keeping that focus even when it hurts.


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[Ontariofarmer]

I can see how Bobby must feel but if a product does not have a patient, the design can be copied. Not much you can do except keep making quality gear that is well made and will stand the rigors of outdoor use. I do own a Kestrel and I like it just as it is. Best of luck to all the saddle companies out there and please remember it takes only one accident from a saddle to put you out of business. ie [treesuit]

I like my kestrel but l can’t wait to see the mantis

It is lighter and has a fabric that is likely better and likely more comfortable.
I will use both saddles and find out what is best for me

Bobby comments are fair. Sparrowhawk’s seem nasty most of the time




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[JBDaddy]

I think Boswell's got a right to feel salty. Don't pile on him.

That's a bit ironic of me to say, since he should be salty at me. I shared pictures and info of the knock-off kestrel I made (for my own use) after I both met him and got to handle one in person. He helped convince me that's the way I should be hunting, and I feel like a back stabber to have made my own, but it was a save-limited-money thing, and not for offer to others.

He contributed time and design ideas for a long time to come up with the first hunter saddle available in years. A company had to be convinced to try his ideas, and it was finally seeing wider adoption and fans. He has been a valuable contributor of ideas and discussion here and on YouTube, and AH contributed special products to this site's Saddlepalooza event.

People here took his ideas and created a similar product, undercutting the kestrels price, and this web site is now the de facto fan boy discussion group for the Mantis. I'd feel salty too. It bothered me seeing people deride him over expressing frustration, and he wasn't even un-civil about it.

I think the Mantis is different enough from what the kestrel was, at the time of the Mantis announcement, that it's not just "we make the same thing cheaper with our own name on it." If a mesh kestrel were public at that time I'd feel differently.

Unfortunately that's a small distinction, and that's life. See Tesla v Edison, any Auto maker v any other, or Lotus 123 v Microsoft Office. The ground breaking product always ends up fighting to stay in the market it created. This brings improvement for all. I've placed an order for a predator stand, and I think the molle mounting system on the Mantis is pretty dang smart and unique in this market space.

I think it would be good for there to be a separate Tethrd specific forum here or elsewhere, but that it's also too late to avoid the appearance of usurping the biggest resource for saddle info with only one commercial option, for a home grown, now commercial apparent inspired-by. I don't think that was a deliberate move, but I do think it could be mistaken that way.

Anyway. It's bothered me for a few days. I supported the old thread being removed because of the responses it was getting, but I didn't say anything. I had to say it when a new thread started.

Now if everybody (ok, one guy) could just not be a jerk about it and get this one locked too.

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[GCTerpfan]

There are only so many ways to put a butt in a tree and hang from a rope. It makes sense that new products are going to take the best parts of current products and improve on them instead of being completely different designs. Just like the Kestrel shared aspects of all the saddles that came before it, the Mantis shares some design features with the Kestrel.

I disagree with Bobby's post but understand were he's personally coming from, I think the play on the name was kind of petty but, we all have made that mistake before. I also disagree that Tethrd needs it's own forum. When the Kestrel came out everything on this site focused around that product. We can be a fickle bunch and like the newest, shiniest toy on the market. When the next saddle comes out that will be the hot topic on this forum as it should be.

I haven't bought a Mantis and I was planning on waiting for more details on the mesh Kestrel before I bought another saddle but, I have got to be honest, I dont know exactly how sparrowhawk is associated with New Tribe but I know there is a relationship there and everytime he posts something petty and negative it makes me less likely to buy a new tribe product. I am sure I am not the only one that feels that way. New Tribe and sparrowhawk can do what they want with that information.

 

[BassBoysLLP]

There are only so many ways to put a butt in a tree and hang from a rope. It makes sense that new products are going to take the best parts of current products and improve on them instead of being completely different designs. Just like the Kestrel shared aspects of all the saddles that came before it, the Mantis shares some design features with the Kestrel.

I disagree with Bobby's post but understand were he's personally coming from, I think the play on the name was kind of petty but, we all have made that mistake before. I also disagree that Tethrd needs it's own forum. When the Kestrel came out everything on this site focused around that product. We can be a fickle bunch and like the newest, shiniest toy on the market. When the next saddle comes out that will be the hot topic on this forum as it should be.

I haven't bought a Mantis and I was planning on waiting for more details on the mesh Kestrel before I bought another saddle but, I have got to be honest, I dont know exactly how sparrowhawk is associated with New Tribe but I know there is a relationship there and everytime he posts something petty and negative it makes me less likely to buy a new tribe product. I am sure I am not the only one that feels that way. New Tribe and sparrowhawk can do what they want with that information.

@bowhunter15 did an outstanding job. Well worth the watch.

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[GCTerpfan]

@bowhunter15 did an outstanding job. Well worth the watch.

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Thanks, I hadn't seen this.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

@bowhunter15 did an outstanding job. Well worth the watch.

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There are a lot of similarities to the mantis in this new mesh kestrel saddle that was tested last year by @bowhunter15
Interesting video - I did not know about the new kestrel prototype tested last year... It looks like a mantis


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[bigjoe]

Great review, it’s well worth the watch.

 

[denots]

I just want to point out that you've put me in a no win situation. Ultimately this thread will turn south and I will have to delete it. I truly try to keep this a good natured and friendly site to visit.

It doesn't have to turn south. We should be able too have a civil discussion. As I stated before I really enjoyed meeting Bobby and he was great with my daughter. I left saddlepalooza with the feeling that I had made a new friend. I also understand sometimes things stay pinned up until we explode. This usually does not result in positive discussion at first. I hope he and the other guys can address there issues with each other in private and work them out. There is enough room here for us all, and we can continue to help each other. As for as censorship it's your site to run how you see fit. It's your time and money invested in it, and it definitely has nothing to do with me except for the little bit of time I spend here and small contributions I try to make. I'm not trying to take sides, but I was raised in a family where if you were not with a certain person, you were against them. Guys I can tell you that is a dangerous way to be, and only serves to hurt and cause division.

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[denots]

Thanks, I hadn't seen this.

X2

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[Cory T]

I just want to point out that you've put me in a no win situation. Ultimately this thread will turn south and I will have to delete it. I truly try to keep this a good natured and friendly site to visit.

I would personally like to say thank you @redsquirrel for keeping it a friendly place. I look forward to seeing all the new ideas and friendly comradery on this site. Just in the few months I've been a member here it literally has changed the way I hunt as well as drained my wallet lol. Thanks to all on the site for all your help and input. No matter what method you use to hunt the passion for hunting doesn't change. Thanks again

 

[ImThere]

So that's how it's gonna be...
censorship and stacking the deck.
Good thing this isn't the only game in town.
Or the town would be North Korea.

Sparrowhawk,
I’m not sure why you seem to be so angry and filled with resentment or what ever it is. Not sure what else to do but pray for you to find peace in your heart,
Sincerely,
Ricky


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[d_rek]

Both products look great and it’s exciting time for me to be a saddle hunter. I think most saddle hunters who are not pro staff, do not get paid to endorse a product, or work directly for a saddle manufacturer feel the same way.

I like the idea of manufacturer sub forums here. It keeps fanboyism siloed. Maybe it’s something to consider.

And, just a business tip for any saddle manfucturer who’s isn’t doing so already:

Document your ideas so you have IP you can copyright.

Make patent drawings and submit them to USPTO.

Get your employees to sign a confidentiality agreement.

Good luck.






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[IkemanTX]

So that's how it's gonna be...
censorship and stacking the deck.
Good thing this isn't the only game in town.
Or the town would be North Korea.

Accusatory, and confrontational posts have never been allowed on this site. I know you may not be aware of that, with your limited time on here. This is not Archery talk, or TnDeer, or any of those other forums where personal insults and attacks are tolerated... and that’s exactly why most of us find ourselves on THIS site more than those.

Bobby has a lot of guys on here who greatly respect him, but the entire nature and tone of what that thread turned into (understandably that wasn’t his intention) was something Red has done a wonderful job of avoiding with saddlehunter.

I do have to say that I am less than impressed with your tone and attitude in the short time you have been on the site. I hope you don’t actually represent New Tribe or AeroHunter, because if you do it makes me think less of them as a company.

I hope to own both brands as soon as I can, and think the Kestrel and Mantis will both greatly improve the available gear to guys getting into the sport. But, if the tone of your posts, @Sparrowhawk , turn out to be the official tone of AeroHunter’s response to a single competitor in the marketplace, I will not be spending my dollars with them as I had planned.


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[Ontariofarmer]

Both products look great and it’s exciting time for me to be a saddle hunter. I think most saddle hunters who are not pro staff, do not get paid to endorse a product, or work directly for a saddle manufacturer feel the same way.

I like the idea of manufacturer sub forums here. It keeps fanboyism siloed. Maybe it’s something to consider.

And, just a business tip for any saddle manfucturer who’s isn’t doing so already:

Document your ideas so you have IP you can copyright.

Make patent drawings and submit them to USPTO.

Get your employees to sign a confidentiality agreement.

Good luck.






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After watching bowhunter 15s video Bobby has a legitimate complaint IMO. But as you mentioned no patents
It is obvious from the video many of the ideas were being tested by New Tribes last year

The market place will decide what saddle is best in the end.
That means marketing quality price and service will come in to play.
Hopefully saddle hunting will grow and there will be room for both companies.
Now that new platform is an original idea for sure
I like how light that mantis is too


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