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How to rappel with MadRock Safeguard without dying?

AustinL911

AustinL911

New Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2019
Messages
35
Ok, so since I've tried about every other method of climbing, I figured I'd give SRT a go. I watched JCline's videos (thank you, btw) and I'm still left with some questions. I'm a complete climbing-world novice, so I've got all these shiny climbing gadgets lying around that look like they fell off the ass end of a rice burning Decepticon; all of which I really am not 100% sure how they are supposed to operate. Some have cute little pictures engraved in them, but it might as well be in a foreign language. I would like to be 100% sure how to work these things before I get my fat ass 30 ft in the air. I tried this whole rappelling thing at like 4ft off the ground, and I apparently pulled one lever a little too hard because I saw my life flash before my eyes when the bottom dropped out of the saddle. I'd rather not do that any further up.

Here's my current setup (can add more if needed):
-Kestrel Flex with stock rope bridge (will eventually make an Amsteel one when I find a length I like)
-Tethrd Linesmans rope and tether, both with RM1's
-Several carabiners
-Kong LH ascender w/ adjustable foot loop
-MadRock Safeguard
-75ft 9mm Sterling HTP
-Throw weights/lines/paracord/etc.
-The will to live................and walk.


Any videos or How-To's out there that I can look at or read? I've search high and low but can't seem to come up with any good instructional vids that break this whole thing down for dummies like me. MadRock really doesn't do much in the way of explaining how their devices work.
 
X2 i want to repel but don’t have the b*llz. I also have all the gear & practiced at low heights. I want it bad. Just need to practice more, or more like me...Get up a tree with no other way down...lol. Live by the sword.
The guys at Masssaddlepaluzza were a huge help.


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I started using the madrock safeguard this season. The first few rappels were jerky but now its butter smooth only after a few goes and I have no experience. I put the rappel rope around the tree that has a fig 8 on a bite and connect the other end to my kong triangle that is through the loop of the fig8b. When looking at the safeguard, the lever is on the left and the tag end is is farthest away from you coming up out of the safeguard. You control the descend by pulling lever up and giving a little slack in tag end with other hand. I recommend gloves.


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I use WE steps and or LW sticks to climb but rappel down. You definitely want to practice at 4-5 ft at first and most definitely want to make sure you’re all set correctly at 20+ feet but I like it. Hell, the one time descending my wife kept blowing up my phone thinking I was dead because it was just dark outside and I was 18 feet up dangling with this set up and talking on the phone. But definitely as I said I double and triple check that I’m all set right before I disconnect from my tether.

Black Diamond ATC-XP Belay Device... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019NUN0SQ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
 
He already has a madrock safeguard. He doesnt need all the atc stuff


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Oh. I missed that. Almost same concept. I thought the mad rock being controlled with the lever would be easier to manage the descend.
 
I think in the original post he must be just opening the lever of the safeguard and lettiner rip. You have to control the descent by controlling the tag end with other had. I got the hang of it after maybe 2-3 rappels with zero prior experience. There are guys twice my age doing it and have made excellent videos.


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Ya that piece of paper went in trash and i just tried it standing on the ground a few times. Play with it low to ground. Also, learn how to connect it by memory because once you attach your rappel rope retrieval line and rappel back to the ground, you will want to remove the safeguard by just sliding it off the rope (assuming your rope is long enough to have some flakes on the ground and not say 20’ rope up 30’ to where you rappel off the end of the rope and fall). Once its off the rope you can pull rope tag through loop or triangle. Then reattach it to rope.


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Belay devices like the Lifeguard and Gri-Gri were not made to be used the way we use them here. Basically for the reason you just learned. So you need to look at backing up the rappel with an autoblock. The lifeguard becomes your rappel device clipped on your bridge, which replaces the more typical ATC or figure eight device, etc you'll see in most videos on rappelling. The autoblock is a low friction prusik on the tag end of the rope where you would hold it with your strong hand. You clip the autoblock lower than the rappel device, usually 18" - 20" or so below the rappel device. I clip it in at my linesmans loop, some will clip it to a leg strap.

Once the autoblock is properly tensioned you can flip the lever on the lifegard to release the cam off the rope and the autoblock will keep you in place. If you apply light pressure at the top of the autoblock prusik with your other hand while holding the lifeguard lever open it will slip and you will descend. Take the pressure off the prusik and you stop,

Once you get the feel of that at at low height you'll understand what is going on there and you can just hold the lifeguard lever wide open and manage the descent by applying and releasing pressure on the autoblock. It will take some practice, but once you get it its a safer and more manageable way to decend without burning up the rope or your hand.

Meant to add too that you can hold the lifeguard lever at different pressures so the autoblock doesn't have to work so hard too. Its something you have to do yourself, but its easy.
 
Aeds151 said:
There is a difference between Lifeguard and Safeguard.
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Click to expand...

yeah that's true but they're still belay devices intended to be used by someone on the ground managing a climber. The panic features are to keep the belay person from killing the climber on the rope..
 
deerfly said:
Belay devices like the Lifeguard and Gri-Gri were not made to be used the way we use them here. Basically for the reason you just learned. So you need to look at backing up the rappel with an autoblock. The lifeguard becomes your rappel device clipped on your bridge, which replaces the more typical ATC or figure eight device, etc you'll see in most videos on rappelling. The autoblock is a low friction prusik on the tag end of the rope where you would hold it with your strong hand. You clip the autoblock lower than the rappel device, usually 18" - 20" or so below the rappel device. I clip it in at my linesmans loop, some will clip it to a leg strap.

Once the autoblock is properly tensioned you can flip the lever on the lifegard to release the cam off the rope and the autoblock will keep you in place. If you apply light pressure at the top of the autoblock prusik with your other hand while holding the lifeguard lever open it will slip and you will descend. Take the pressure off the prusik and you stop,

Once you get the feel of that at at low height you'll understand what is going on there and you can just hold the lifeguard lever wide open and manage the descent by applying and releasing pressure on the autoblock. It will take some practice, but once you get it its a safer and more manageable way to decend without burning up the rope or your hand.

Meant to add too that you can hold the lifeguard lever at different pressures so the autoblock doesn't have to work so hard too. Its something you have to do yourself, but its easy.
Click to expand...
This is how I do it. Much easier lowering yourself with the strong hand autoblock than manipulating the safeguard handle. Plus you are backed up. Thank you for the well written explanation.

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AustinL911 said:
Ok, so since I've tried about every other method of climbing, I figured I'd give SRT a go. I watched JCline's videos (thank you, btw) and I'm still left with some questions. I'm a complete climbing-world novice, so I've got all these shiny climbing gadgets lying around that look like they fell off the ass end of a rice burning Decepticon; all of which I really am not 100% sure how they are supposed to operate. Some have cute little pictures engraved in them, but it might as well be in a foreign language. I would like to be 100% sure how to work these things before I get my fat ass 30 ft in the air. I tried this whole rappelling thing at like 4ft off the ground, and I apparently pulled one lever a little too hard because I saw my life flash before my eyes when the bottom dropped out of the saddle. I'd rather not do that any further up.

Here's my current setup (can add more if needed):
-Kestrel Flex with stock rope bridge (will eventually make an Amsteel one when I find a length I like)
-Tethrd Linesmans rope and tether, both with RM1's
-Several carabiners
-Kong LH ascender w/ adjustable foot loop
-MadRock Safeguard
-75ft 9mm Sterling HTP
-Throw weights/lines/paracord/etc.
-The will to live................and walk.


Any videos or How-To's out there that I can look at or read? I've search high and low but can't seem to come up with any good instructional vids that break this whole thing down for dummies like me. MadRock really doesn't do much in the way of explaining how their devices work.
Click to expand...
I suggest you check out REI near you for any basic climbing class (or any other outdoor store near you). Investing in a class like that or paying a seasoned climber for a private lesson is the best investment in your situation. Life is worth it, it’s also much less than any medical bill.
 
I am sure there are other posts on this but came to this on a search. If folks using the safeguard just let it stay open and run the speed of descent with the autoblock is there a real advantage over a regular, simple ATC device?
 
arm breaker said:
I am sure there are other posts on this but came to this on a search. If folks using the safeguard just let it stay open and run the speed of descent with the autoblock is there a real advantage over a regular, simple ATC device?
Click to expand...

No doing it that way is an expensive ATC. I have a safegaurd that I use if I’m SRTing and will use it to rappel in that set up. If I’m using 1-stick or WE steps and rappelling down I use a Grivel 2x8 to an ATC.
 
Cool, thanks for that info. So part of it is also a safety for going up In DRT and allowing for a break as needed?
 
arm breaker said:
Cool, thanks for that info. So part of it is also a safety for going up In DRT and allowing for a break as needed?
Click to expand...

For SRT, yes. I haven’t done DRT, so I’m not sure.

I will add that using the Safeguard with autoblock still gives you the option to have two means of stopping if you need to while rappelling. ATC plus autoblock is relying on just the autoblock to stop. We use the phrase is surgery all the time-‘two is one and one is none’. I’ll take the extra weight and cost of the Safeguard vs ATC for the benefit of the backup brake (even though the ATC has the advantage of nothing mechanical and no moving parts).
 
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