Madrock safe guard

[weekender21]

That’s one of the things I’m looking forward to when mine shows up. I’d rather not transition from an SRT to a rappel device at the end of the night. Less gear to carry too.

I don’t transitioning from SRT to an ATC. I transition from SRT to my usual tether, the same one I use regardless of climbing method. After the hunt I drop the rope, connect to my ATC, disconnect my tether and down I go. Sure it’s an extra few ounces but I’ve been rappelling for 30 years and just prefer actual rappelling equipment.


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[robstewart]

I don’t transitioning from SRT to an ATC. I transition from SRT to my usual tether, the same one I use regardless of climbing method. After the hunt I drop the rope, connect to my ATC, disconnect my tether and down I go. Sure it’s an extra few ounces but I’ve been rappelling for 30 years and just prefer actual rappelling equipment.


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IAn ATC is a belay device not actual rappel equipment just the same as the safeguard. I understand your personal preference though.

If I was doing a long rappel down a cliff I’d want to use a figure 8 and an autoblock but for a 20-30’ straight down that includes stopping to remove my stick, I prefer to keep it simple and having one piece of kit that lets me SRT up and down easily is a bonus.


Same reason I prefer to have 1 piece of rope as my tether/rappel line.


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[weekender21]

You’re right, words matter. Technically an ATC is a rappel device. Realistically it just reroutes a rope with a little added friction. I know guys use mechanical belay devices for rappelling (I have as well) but I prefer the ATC.

I agree, a figure 8 is overkill but would also work just fine.


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[robstewart]

You’re right, words matter. Technically an ATC is a rappel device. Realistically it just reroutes a rope with a little added friction. I know guys use mechanical belay devices for rappelling (I have as well) but I prefer the ATC.

I agree, a figure 8 is overkill but would also work just fine.


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Sorry... I wasn't trying to be a d i c k! I picked up a figure 8 to get down from my tree because it's a piece of equipment I've used in the past. Hell, you can rappel with just a caribiner too in a pinch.

For me it's all about keeping it as simple as possible and I'm hoping when my Safeguard shows up that it turns out to be the holy grail. I have a guide ATC that I have yet to really put to the test and since my Safeguard hasn't shipped yet I figure I'll try out the guide ATC this weekend.

Who knows, maybe at the end of the day I'll end up switching back to prusiks! lol

 

[weekender21]

Sorry... I wasn't trying to be a d i c k! I picked up a figure 8 to get down from my tree because it's a piece of equipment I've used in the past. Hell, you can rappel with just a caribiner too in a pinch.

For me it's all about keeping it as simple as possible and I'm hoping when my Safeguard shows up that it turns out to be the holy grail. I have a guide ATC that I have yet to really put to the test and since my Safeguard hasn't shipped yet I figure I'll try out the guide ATC this weekend.

Who knows, maybe at the end of the day I'll end up switching back to prusiks! lol

No worries. I just wanted to make sure a newby didn't view this thread and think using a Madrock Safeguard for rappelling is a manufacturer recommend practice, more specifically hanging from a Safeguard hands free. I know you could say that about several popular saddle items (RM1 is a perfect example) but when recommended there should be a disclaimer.

 

[Aeds151]

Do you run the rappel line under your butt to help control the descent?

No


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[tider]

I finally received all my equipment needed and I’m switching over to the oplux. I have 35 feet that I plan to use as a tether/Rappel line. I am going to use the safeguard to rappel down with a 35cm Beal jammy as a backup. I will be using the distel hitch as my connection to my bridge while I’m hunting. Do I connect the safeguard and remove the distel when I’m ready to come down or what would be the best method to transition over from hunting to the rappel?

Thanks


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[bj139]

I didn't know a figure 8 is the only approved rappel device. I can see the progression over time where the ATC is now the standard rappel device. In a few years the GriGri or Safeguard will probably be the standard rappel device. Times change and technology with it.

 

[bj139]

I finally received all my equipment needed and I’m switching over to the oplux. I have 35 feet that I plan to use as a tether/Rappel line. I am going to use the safeguard to rappel down with a 35cm Beal jammy as a backup. I will be using the distel hitch as my connection to my bridge while I’m hunting. Do I connect the safeguard and remove the distel when I’m ready to come down or what would be the best method to transition over from hunting to the rappel?

Thanks


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I would add the Safeguard as early as possible. You have to carry it anyway. It is only enhancing your safety when it is connected to you and the rope. Depending on your climbing method I would add either before ascent (RADS) or when I get to the top (stick or steps). To descend, you would probably have to remove the distel since the Safeguard requires one hand for the lever and the other for the tag end of the rope. Unless you have another hand to release the distel you couldn't descend.

 

[bj139]

No worries. I just wanted to make sure a newby didn't view this thread and think using a Madrock Safeguard for rappelling is a manufacturer recommend practice, more specifically hanging from a Safeguard hands free. I know you could say that about several popular saddle items (RM1 is a perfect example) but when recommended there should be a disclaimer.

I know I posted this before on another thread, from the Madrock website. Rescue work requires hanging, locked on the rope. They say, "will not creep or slide".

Copied from Madrock website.

"Springless Lifeguard
By constructing the Lifeguard without the internal spring, the Safeguard is a great tool for rescue and rigging work. It will lock onto the rope with very little force giving you the confidence that once the position of the rope is set the device will not creep or slide.

For rescue / rigging use: 8.1mm to 11mm rope diameter

For climbing use: 8.9mm to 11mm rope diameter

Hot Forged Aluminum and Stainless Steel construction

Individually tested

Weight: 154g
"

 

[weekender21]

Yeah, I've read it many times and have been using the device for a year. I'll dig up my "manual" when I get back to Hawaii. I tried to find something on the Madrock web page but could not. They don't go as far as telling you what to do and not to do on the limited web page description.

 

[bj139]

The Safeguard would not be good belay device because you would have to keep your thumb on it to be able to feed rope. The spring on the Lifeguard or other belay device keeps it open so you can feed rope without having it lock down prematurely on the rope. In fact. from the description Madrock does not even say it is a belay device.

 

[bj139]

Description of Lifeguard from Madrock website. Much different than Safeguard.

"The Lifeguard belay device with assisted braking is compact, light and durable. Our new device has been constructed using hot forged aircraft grade aluminum and stainless steel for increased durability. The Lifeguard can be used with classic belay techniques with single ropes ranging from 8.9mm to 11mm for lead and top-rope climbing.

Weight: 154g
Rope Compatibility: 8.9 to 11mm
Certification: CE EN 15151-1
"

 

[robstewart]

I contacted Mad Rock and got the manual for the Safeguard: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzs5neb5sa3qxla/SAFEGUARD_instructions.pdf?dl=0

It barely refers to rappelling and the "ALWAYS KEEP YOUR BRAKE HAND ON THE ROPE" verbiage does sound like boiler-plate lawyer-speak.

From everything I've read and seen it's designed for the purpose of rappelling and hanging from to work but as with absolutely every single other device on the market, they tell you to maintain control on the brake line for liability reasons etc.

I personally am going to try mine when it comes for both ascending and descending and for hanging to remove my sticks. I will do a leg-wrap while removing sticks and at hunting height I plan on tying a knot below it and hooking the knot into my harness anyway.

Safety first!

 

[robstewart]

The Safeguard would not be good belay device because you would have to keep your thumb on it to be able to feed rope. The spring on the Lifeguard or other belay device keeps it open so you can feed rope without having it lock down prematurely on the rope. In fact. from the description Madrock does not even say it is a belay device.

In the manual it is referred to as a belay device.

 

[robstewart]

I didn't know a figure 8 is the only approved rappel device. I can see the progression over time where the ATC is now the standard rappel device. In a few years the GriGri or Safeguard will probably be the standard rappel device. Times change and technology with it.

Technically using an ATC or things like that is not the designed use. It works but it's not really truly what they were originally designed for. Of course everyone uses an ATC or Reverso or a Jul or some other device to rappel. For a long rap though I'd still prefer a figure 8 or rescue 8.

 

[weekender21]

I contacted Mad Rock and got the manual for the Safeguard: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzs5neb5sa3qxla/SAFEGUARD_instructions.pdf?dl=0

It barely refers to rappelling and the "ALWAYS KEEP YOUR BRAKE HAND ON THE ROPE" verbiage does sound like boiler-plate lawyer-speak.

From everything I've read and seen it's designed for the purpose of rappelling and hanging from to work but as with absolutely every single other device on the market, they tell you to maintain control on the brake line for liability reasons etc.

I personally am going to try mine when it comes for both ascending and descending and for hanging to remove my sticks. I will do a leg-wrap while removing sticks and at hunting height I plan on tying a knot below it and hooking the knot into my harness anyway.

Safety first!

That's the verbiage I recall. I think they assume that all the people using the Safeguard for rescue work are properly trained and would be tying off their brake side regardless. This should happen if you're using a rescue 8, safeguard or anything else. That's why the verbiage states it as such.

Tying off at hunting height is just smart business and you're smart to do so.

With the flood of hunters to saddle hunting, it's scary to think about guys coming to this site for climbing advice and relying on what they read as fact.

 

[tider]

I would add the Safeguard as early as possible. You have to carry it anyway. It is only enhancing your safety when it is connected to you and the rope. Depending on your climbing method I would add either before ascent (RADS) or when I get to the top (stick or steps). To descend, you would probably have to remove the distel since the Safeguard requires one hand for the lever and the other for the tag end of the rope. Unless you have another hand to release the distel you couldn't descend.

Ha Ha.

I’m one sticking for my climbing method.
I’m going to use a 35cm Beal jammy as a backup when I rappel. So, I was thinking I probably would have to disconnect the distel when I rappel.

Thanks.


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[weekender21]

I finally received all my equipment needed and I’m switching over to the oplux. I have 35 feet that I plan to use as a tether/Rappel line. I am going to use the safeguard to rappel down with a 35cm Beal jammy as a backup. I will be using the distel hitch as my connection to my bridge while I’m hunting. Do I connect the safeguard and remove the distel when I’m ready to come down or what would be the best method to transition over from hunting to the rappel?

Thanks


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I’m using a tether separate from my rappelling rope as well. When it’s time to come down I do the following:

-set my rope

-attach my paracord behind figure eight with a small wire gate carabiner (gate facing away from tree)

-attach my pack to the tag of my rope with a bowline and lower it down.

-lower my bow

-while still connected to tether I add my short bridge (24” Sterling sling)

-put ATC on rappel line and connect to short bridge with a locking carabiner
(If using a Safeuard instead of ATC, this is the step I’d attach it).

-connect autoblock (French Prusik) below my ATC and to my right lineman’s loop. I use a Sterling Hollowblock but and Prusik cord will typically work assuming it’s sized appropriately. With a Safeguard I wouldn’t use an autoblock personally, just keep a hand on your brake at all times.

-take slack out of system with weight on my autoblock or as close as possible.

-disconnect and stow tether

-begin descent squeezing autoblock to move down, releasing to stop

-I remove my platform hanging hands free by my autoblock and ATC but you could tie off here as well.

-connect platform to the left side of my saddle and continue down.

***If you’re only rappelling (not ascending) I highly recommend not spending money on a Safeguard. An ATC is lighter, quieter, much less expensive and offers a smoother rappel.


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[tider]

I’m using a tether separate from my rappelling rope as well. When it’s time to come down I do the following:

-set my rope

-attach my paracord behind figure eight with a small wire gate carabiner (gate facing away from tree)

-attach my pack to the tag of my rope with a bowline and lower it down.

-lower my bow

-while still connected to tether I add my short bridge (24” Sterling sling)

-put ATC on rappel line and connect to short bridge with a locking carabiner
(If using a Safeuard instead of ATC, this is the step I’d attach it).

-connect autoblock (French Prusik) below my ATC and to my right lineman’s loop. I use a Sterling Hollowblock but and Prusik cord will typically work assuming it’s sized appropriately. With a Safeguard I wouldn’t use an autoblock personally, just keep a hand on your brake at all times.

-take slack out of system with weight on my autoblock or as close as possible.

-disconnect and stow tether

-begin descent squeezing autoblock to move down, releasing to stop

-I remove my platform hanging hands free by my autoblock and ATC but you could tie off here as well.

-connect platform to the left side of my saddle and continue down.

***If you’re only rappelling (not ascending) I highly recommend not spending money on a Safeguard. An ATC is lighter, quieter, much less expensive and offers a smoother rappel.


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Thanks, That’s helpful. Good to see what someone else’s method is compared to mine.

Do you prefer using a separate short tether rather rather than the 35’ or so of rappel as a tether/rappel line. ?


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