Scouting Hill Terrain

[woodsdog2]

I got out yesterday and scouted a section of public that I've always wanted to check out but never have. I think it was productive. I found a lot of deer sign in the form of beaten down trails and a decent sized rub facing the ridge so I'm assuming the buck made the rub in the evening as it was heading out from the ridge but who knows.

These logging roads are on the south side of the slope and there are some nice benches below the ridge top. Pressure is on the top during the season, and I've been hunting side hills a lot more over the last few years but Its always hard trying to figure out where exactly and how exactly to hunt this kind of sign.

All of the old logging roads had beaten down deer trails on them and all of them came up to the ridgeline along the continuity of its length with the main ridge running east-west. So why do they use all of the roads seemingly equally and how do you determine which ones to hunt on any given day? Without a shotgun of trail cams on each old logging road (which I may still do), The only thing I can think of is that a buck is going to use the most downwind trail or location on any given day depending on the wind direction for that day so he can scent check as much of the area he's going to eventually go through or skirt as much as possible. Like I explained earlier, all of these old logging roads and benches are on the south facing slopes of a generally east to west running ridgeline.

So my logic is if the wind is going to be from the extreme west, that buck will probably use the east most trail as its traveling northward toward daylight activity so it can smell a majority of the area as it travels toward evening feeding. Likewise, on its return trip to the south facing slopes to bed for the day, It will also use the east most trail to enter the sidehill area to bed, then hooking around so the wind is over its back from the west. As the wind changes angle to this ridge, they will change which roads they use to try and always be able to scent check a majority of the cover they will be heading through.

If my assumptions are correct, then all of the continuous activity on all of these trails seems to make sense. Wondering what your thoughts are about this and how you would choose actual hunting locations in this kind of terrain?

 

[woodsdog2]

Also found this winter kill doe. My dog enjoyed chewing on the leg bones for awhile!!! This was in a different location though and on public next the private farm I hunt.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I linked this video by Dan Infalt because this scenario reminds me a lot of what he talked about on this hunt and how he set up and why. Some of the places I hunt are like this. Hill country can be really tough. Ideally, I try to look for spots along those trails where the terrain forces deer movement through the most constricted spot possible. I also want to be fairly close to what I think is bedding. From the pictures it seems you have a good number of deer using that area. That is a very good sign.

(221) HB TV Episode #5 - Hill Country Rut Buck - YouTube

 

[slonstdy]

Keep in mind what the thermals are doing. The mountain hillside behind my house looks very similar to the terrain you are scouting. There is a main east-west route the deer take between bedding areas where the wind direction is 90% of the time from a westerly direction. I hunt in a pinch point of sorts, where the trail which is on flatter ground runs between a steep incline and a sharp drop off. Morning thermals carry my milkweed straight up that steep incline regardless of the wind direction. Yes my scent does follow the wind direction to some degree but the thermal has a much stronger influence. The reverse happens when the temps start to drop, my scent follows the drop off and cascades down the hillside.

Now I say all of that at as prelude to what I'm about to say. I have seen bucks and does run up and down that hillside as if it didn't exist so don't limit your thinking to they'll mainly follow the trails. I've got trailcam pics of deer coming straight down the hillside perpendicular to the main trail. A buck will probably situate himself above the trail where thermals converge and scent check the area below him for does moving along the trail or have a vantage point where he can visually monitor what goes on below him.

Hillsides are tricky hunting for sure. Keep watch on what the thermals are doing and find a pinch point or funnel to set up in.

 

[woodsdog2]

Keep in mind what the thermals are doing. The mountain hillside behind my house looks very similar to the terrain you are scouting. There is a main east-west route the deer take between bedding areas where the wind direction is 90% of the time from a westerly direction. I hunt in a pinch point of sorts, where the trail which is on flatter ground runs between a steep incline and a sharp drop off. Morning thermals carry my milkweed straight up that steep incline regardless of the wind direction. Yes my scent does follow the wind direction to some degree but the thermal has a much stronger influence. The reverse happens when the temps start to drop, my scent follows the drop off and cascades down the hillside.

Now I say all of that at as prelude to what I'm about to say. I have seen bucks and does run up and down that hillside as if it didn't exist so don't limit your thinking to they'll mainly follow the trails. I've got trailcam pics of deer coming straight down the hillside perpendicular to the main trail. A buck will probably situate himself above the trail where thermals converge and scent check the area below him for does moving along the trail or have a vantage point where he can visually monitor what goes on below him.

Hillsides are tricky hunting for sure. Keep watch on what the thermals are doing and find a pinch point or funnel to set up in.

Are you hunting just over the ridge on the top 1/3 of the ridgeline and if so, how are you hunting it? Mornings or evenings or both. I can see advantages and disadvantages to both. Are you accessing from below and going up or from the top and coming down or are you sidehilling it somehow?

 

[Jimdude]

I’ve been hunting terrain like this the last 2 years. Very little luck but I’m still a novice. I saw the same 8pt buck 3 times and he never used the main trails. Right threw all the knee high brush. Usually cross wind direction. Another spot, huge deer (couldn’t see the rack but enormous body) came straight up a cliff cross wind and not on a trail but crossed the trail/shelf I was on. Winded me. 3rd event the buck came right up the trail to me. He came from a 2 acre point on a river bend walking with the wind. I suspect he got out of bed at 3:45 and got shot at 3:55. I bet he couldn’t wait to get off the logging road but never made it. HOWEVER, when they are in velvet in August I always get them on camera on the main trails. I am assuming that when bucks are hard horned that they use open trails more at night, but I’m still learning.

 

[woodsdog2]

I’ve been hunting terrain like this the last 2 years. Very little luck but I’m still a novice. I saw the same 8pt buck 3 times and he never used the main trails. Right threw all the knee high brush. Usually cross wind direction. Another spot, huge deer (couldn’t see the rack but enormous body) came straight up a cliff cross wind and not on a trail but crossed the trail/shelf I was on. Winded me. 3rd event the buck came right up the trail to me. He came from a 2 acre point on a river bend walking with the wind. I suspect he got out of bed at 3:45 and got shot at 3:55. I bet he couldn’t wait to get off the logging road but never made it. HOWEVER, when they are in velvet in August I always get them on camera on the main trails. I am assuming that when bucks are hard horned that they use open trails more at night, but I’m still learning.

So how were you setting up on this in relation to the ridgeline? Sounds like you were on a bench/shelf were you overlooking scrapes or just the trail... .what about that spot on the shelf drew you to that location?

 

[Jimdude]

1 of the 3 spots were a bench. It had scrapes and rubs. I set up on a 3 way intersection with the wind in my favor. The buck came up the ridge about 70 yards from the trail that came up it, which was 50 yards behind me. He had his head down and he was moving fast straight to where my truck was which was about 150 yards away. There was a nice scrap with a rub next to it about 20 yards from my truck which I think was his destination. Funny thing is I was going to set up on it but I didn’t want to be close to the road, so I was trying to intercept him on those trails. If I just listened to the THP guys and “hunt the sign” I may have got him. As for choosing that spot, I only went there because my dad used to take me there 30 years ago and I went there in memory of him to sit in his favorite spot.

 

[Jimdude]

By the way, that buck never came back again. Hunted there the next 3 weeks and only saw 1 doe. She never passed through. I saw her the next week when I looked over the edge of the shelf to see where that buck came up it. She was bedded 1/3 from the top. Below her was a nice wide ridge and below that a steep drop to the Delaware river.

 

[slonstdy]

Are you hunting just over the ridge on the top 1/3 of the ridgeline and if so, how are you hunting it? Mornings or evenings or both. I can see advantages and disadvantages to both. Are you accessing from below and going up or from the top and coming down or are you sidehilling it somehow?

Bottom 1/3 of ridgeline, starting from the elevation of my house to the top of the mountain.
I hunt there mornings and evenings but I access it the same way, from below. In the mornings I don't have to worry about the thermals because I'm in there before the sun crests and warms my side of the hill.
There are a few reasons why I access it the same way in the afternoons. This spot is close enough to a few houses that human scent in the area is somewhat normal and shouldn't alarm deer. The wind is usually on my side, in my face and quartering slightly uphill and behind me in the direction I came from. The trail I take from my house gives me good visibility of the area before I get to the hill behind the tree I hunt from and I can also get in there quietly.

 

[woodsdog2]

Bottom 1/3 of ridgeline, starting from the elevation of my house to the top of the mountain.
I hunt there mornings and evenings but I access it the same way, from below. In the mornings I don't have to worry about the thermals because I'm in there before the sun crests and warms my side of the hill.
There are a few reasons why I access it the same way in the afternoons. This spot is close enough to a few houses that human scent in the area is somewhat normal and shouldn't alarm deer. The wind is usually on my side, in my face and quartering slightly uphill and behind me in the direction I came from. The trail I take from my house gives me good visibility of the area before I get to the hill behind the tree I hunt from and I can also get in there quietly.

And so what in that bottom 1/3 drew you to that location in terms of sign or terrain features? I can completely understand you hunting it in the am, and with your explanation I am getting what you are doing in the afternoons but where are you expecting most movement in the afternoons? Above you on the hill behind your tree or are they down in further and you're waiting to intercept them as they go back up to feed at night?

 

[slonstdy]

Years of observing how the deer travel along the hillside really, I'll do my best to describe it so you can get a mental picture of why I hunt it the way I do.

The hillside runs east to west with the mountain top to the north. It is a steep hillside broken up by a few flatter sections, picture looking at a flight of stairs from the side. These "steps" or levels, which are just less inclined sections of the hillside really, vary in depth from 50 yards to 15 feet wide. To the east the deer bed along the hillside on my neighbors property. They traverse one of these lower steps westward following the trail as it gradully rises into the next higher level that is a much wider and more open step. This section has another trail, also from the west which drops down into it. From this larger area the deer continue west dropping slightly downhill onto a narrow section of the trail along this step that is only 18 yards wide for 60 - 80 yards long. This section is between a really steep part of the hillside, the type that would require us to use hands and feet to climb up, and a decent dropoff to the lower step 50 yards downhill. There is a small 30 yard piece on this part of the trail that has a bunch of closely grown saplings up to 4" in diameter that bucks have rubbed over the years. The entire hillside is mostly mature hardwoods, red and white oaks, maples, hickories, some black birches and a few beech trees so food is plentiful which makes hunting over a food source futile. Deer will casually feed as they walk along the trail, randomly stopping in an area and then continue on. Once past this choke point the hillside becomes less steep and opens up into a big wide bowl which is unfortunately all private land. I lost my bearings and "accidentally" scouted there years ago and found a ton of sign in there - bedding, rubs, droppings, really thick brush, etc... you know all the good stuff you'd expect to find on land you can't hunt.

I finally realized that the piece of hillside that I can Iegally hunt is a travel corridor between these two pieces of private land where deer find cover and safety. Years of trial and error along with trailcam data drilled this info into my head but I was always limited in where to hunt because I was using a trees***d at the time. The saddle allowed me to hunt on the end of that narrow section. Call it a choke point or a funnel it's all the same to me, this is where no matter what route the deer take walking along the hillside, they always travel through this part. In the mornings the deer come from the east, 9 out of 10 times, somewhere between sunrise and 9am. For the afternoon to darkness hunts the reverse is true, they will start to come out in the early evening mostly from the west and head east. The thermals always carry my scent over the trail and up the steep hillside in the mornings once the sun comes over the mountain. The tree I hunt from is at the edge of the dropoff on the south side of the trail. It's about 18 yards across before the hill rises steeply. So, I face north nestled in a fork in the tree, the dropoff is at my back, the trail runs east to west at a slight downward slope and the steep hillside is in front of me to the north. Because I am literally hunting on the trail which brings the deer right beneath me, the thermals prevent my scent from dropping down to them. During the late afternoon and evening hunts when the sun gets low in the sky and the cooler air moves in the thermals carry my scent down the dropoff behind me and away from the trail.

 

[woodsdog2]

That's perfect @slonstdy exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time to write that all out. Love it!! Definitely helps me understand the logic you used to arrive at your location and your reasoning behind it. I didn't actually realize a majority of the movement you are watching is east-west movement parallel to the main ridge. I was thinking you were intercepting more up down movement and feed and fields were up on top or in the valley below.

 

[tailgunner]

This thread has jumped off to a good start.thermsls are why hard horned mature blacktails use fainter upertrails in the brush above the main trail in the mornings ,and a lower sparce trail in the creek brush in the evenings.while does and little bucks just walk right across the bench every day on the main trail about 1/3of the time when not grazing.mature bucks typicaly ony do use the main trails in the dark or rairly in the daylight .trophys always seam just out of reach when archery hunting hills.especialy when the wind is swirling.but I will put it together eventually.

 

[tailgunner]

Good info guys.

 

[tailgunner]

The wind out here swirls so much im just now realizing you are better off playing the thermals.ive been busted by thermals repeatedly when working even a nice prevailing wind.and they say you can't learn any thing about hunting blacktails from a whitetail hunter.but realizing this will help me waist less time doing stupid my dudes ,thanks

 

[tailgunner]

I was sitting in a buck bed a week ago scoutingaround noon.i took my hat off and said to my friend take your hat off. do you feel that he said yes the the thermals are falling strait down on my head like a cool breeze when there was none

 

[slonstdy]

That's perfect @slonstdy exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time to write that all out. Love it!! Definitely helps me understand the logic you used to arrive at your location and your reasoning behind it. I didn't actually realize a majority of the movement you are watching is east-west movement parallel to the main ridge. I was thinking you were intercepting more up down movement and feed and fields were up on top or in the valley below.

I really hope it helps you figure out a strategy for your area. Like I said, it took me years to solve how to hunt it effectively. When hunting hillsides you really need to think about wind direction and how thermals carry your scent. But what's also important and I forgot to mention it previously, is visibility and sight lines. Not how far you can see but how deer set up and use the landscape to their advantage. I'll give you an example of this.

I told you that after the section of trail I hunt the hill flattens out into a bowl. Well the trail forks about 60 yards past me with one leg continuing on a gentle downward slope which levels out to a wider area that has more ground brush and cover, while the other leg of the trail cuts into the hillside and rises sharply and then levels and continues across the hill face. Well on this upper trail I've found a couple of beds right on the edge overlooking the lower brushy area. From there a buck has a great view of not only what's going on under him but also the section of trail just past where I hunt! In the early season I don't have to worry because all of the vegetation and tree canopy keep me hidden from view but once the leaves are down and the trees are bare I may be visible from his vantage point 120 yards away. When I enter there in the afternoons in the late season I come up the hill from behind the tree and keep my movements very slow in case he is up there and looking my way. I'm not 100% certain he can see me but I'm also 100% sure I'm not going to assume he can't.

 

[Horn]

Great information here, thanks for sharing. It should help me immensely with a location I want to hunt this season

 

[slonstdy]

The wind out here swirls so much im just now realizing you are better off playing the thermals.ive been busted by thermals repeatedly when working even a nice prevailing wind.and they say you can't learn any thing about hunting blacktails from a whitetail hunter.but realizing this will help me waist less time doing stupid my dudes ,thanks

Last season I had a spike under me for almost 20 minutes. He came from the east in the late afternoon feeding randomly and I watched him make a fresh rub for almost 5 minutes. It was awesome to watch him do his thing just 10 yards from my tree. Well he causually turned and slowly made his way off the trail and went up that steep hillside, calmly eating nuts along the way. He was 35 yards away and ten or so feet higher in elevation than I was in the tree when his body language changed all of a sudden. He immediately stopped moving and put his nose in the air for a few moments before scanning the area beneath him from where he came. It was only for a few seconds before he decided to bolt across the side of the hill to the east and out of sight. He absolutely got to a point where the thermal carrying my scent was making landfall on that hillside.