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Saddle Expiration Date

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2021
Messages
469
Actually read through the lengthy safety warnings sheet included with my new Cruzer XC, and was surprised to see a 5 year expiration date for the saddle noted in the warning. I get why they have it, but still a bit surprised. And 5 years seems a bit short to me. Curious if any other saddle maker is assigning such an expiration date.


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most manufacturers have those on their saddles of differing lengths, its a liability thing for insurance purposes. its better to claim it expires well before it does, which both shortens any liability but still gives some time for the item to see some wear. they do similar things with a lot of foods, the "best by" date on them is usually well before they actually go bad
 
So they're saying that there's no difference whether a saddle was used just once a year, or hunted hard every day of the season or if it was stored unused that after 5 years it has to be replaced??? Pure nonsense right there.
 
5-6 years is pretty standard for safety harness used in construction.....some say they have to be replace ever year.......safety harness I used last time I was hanging some steel was probably 15 years old.....supposed to swap out toothbrush every 3-4 months according to CDC...... living dangerous
 
I like when these types of questions start getting asked!

The logic behind testing and safety certifications, warnings, expiration dates, etc. starts to get put out in the open.

For the people in the back row: a corporation’s incentive structure does not align with yours. No matter how nice the founders or owners seem to be. Any testing, certification, insurance, hold harmless clause - everything done on this front, is done with a sole intent: minimize exposure to risk, and minimize liability for damages.

You should place ZERO value on test results, expiration dates, certifications, when considering how dangerous the use of a climbing/saddle product is. Those pieces of information do not hold any tangible value in your real world risk assessment. They do not reflect the risks to YOU. They reflect risk to the COMPANY.


Real world:

Does this mean you can safely use a saddle before it’s expiration date? Maybe.

Does this mean you can safely use a saddle after its expiration date? Maybe.

“Well that’s dumb Kyle. What’s the point of the expiration date if it doesn’t inform my decision making process?” - yeh. I know. Now you are starting to understand….
 
The first thing I thought of was one of the interviews with Eberhart where he said he had been using the same saddle for 35 years...or some crazy number, can't remember exactly what he had said. And then here is my new saddle saying she's quitting after 5 :laughing:

I'll have to check my Phantom to see if it has a similar expiration date. I don't recall having seen one when I purchased it.
 
The first thing I thought of was one of the interviews with Eberhart where he said he had been using the same saddle for 35 years...or some crazy number, can't remember exactly what he had said. And then here is my new saddle saying she's quitting after 5 :laughing:

I'll have to check my Phantom to see if it has a similar expiration date. I don't recall having seen one when I purchased it.

They say retire all safety equipment after 5 years regardless of condition

 
The first thing I thought of was one of the interviews with Eberhart where he said he had been using the same saddle for 35 years...or some crazy number, can't remember exactly what he had said. And then here is my new saddle saying she's quitting after 5 :laughing:

I'll have to check my Phantom to see if it has a similar expiration date. I don't recall having seen one when I purchased it.
hard to find any name brand climbing or safety gear without a exp date. Would be suicide for the company.
I would be concerned if it didnt have a date. More likely some Made in PRC junk. although most of those brands still have exp dates and warnings (like hawk and tethrd...woops)
 
I like when these types of questions start getting asked!

The logic behind testing and safety certifications, warnings, expiration dates, etc. starts to get put out in the open.

For the people in the back row: a corporation’s incentive structure does not align with yours. No matter how nice the founders or owners seem to be. Any testing, certification, insurance, hold harmless clause - everything done on this front, is done with a sole intent: minimize exposure to risk, and minimize liability for damages.

You should place ZERO value on test results, expiration dates, certifications, when considering how dangerous the use of a climbing/saddle product is. Those pieces of information do not hold any tangible value in your real world risk assessment. They do not reflect the risks to YOU. They reflect risk to the COMPANY.


Real world:

Does this mean you can safely use a saddle before it’s expiration date? Maybe.

Does this mean you can safely use a saddle after its expiration date? Maybe.

“Well that’s dumb Kyle. What’s the point of the expiration date if it doesn’t inform my decision making process?” - yeh. I know. Now you are starting to understand….

So rope and biner ratings are of no value?
 
A
Actually read through the lengthy safety warnings sheet included with my new Cruzer XC, and was surprised to see a 5 year expiration date for the saddle noted in the warning. I get why they have it, but still a bit surprised. And 5 years seems a bit short to me. Curious if any other saddle maker is assigning such an expiration date.


View attachment 65657
All saddle manufacturers will have a date of 5 years or less because of material degradation. It is an ANSI requirement For all forms of life safety harnesses.
 
Yep. Your saddle is no good after 5 years. I suggest you ship it to me at that point. I will dispose of them.... J.k.

Fyi, I remember talking to a distributor a while ago about exp. Dates on safety harness. They also noted most do not have a set expired date. They encourage daily inspection. This is off MSA. They make harnesses.
Screenshot_20220518-120634~2.png
 
A

All saddle manufacturers will have a date of 5 years or less because of material degradation. It is an ANSI requirement For all forms of life safety harnesses.
Have you read that any where? I was looking at Buckingham's web site for a piece or literature that says how long it's good for.
I think the catch becomes if it fails before that time. They can still be liable.
 
Yep. Your saddle is no good after 5 years. I suggest you ship it to me at that point. I will dispose of them.... J.k.

Fyi, I remember talking to a distributor a while ago about exp. Dates on safety harness. They also noted most do not have a set expired date. They encourage daily inspection. This is off MSA. They make harnesses.
View attachment 65674


The next paragraph down was/is the most important one involving this issue!
 
I am unsure how the new standard reads but the old ANSI standard stated that unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer, all harnesses should be retired upon completion of 5 years of service. The standard was A10 that dealt with construction and demolition of a fall arrest harness. I’ve heard newer additions have been updated to say harnesses can be used as long as they are inspected by a qualified person and deemed fit for use. As recreational use harnesses manufacturers will not be able to make you take it to a certified harness and sling inspection company so regardless as recreational use goes, all manufacturers will say 5 years or less. It doesn’t mean you have to get rid of it at the 5 year mark. It means if you use it beyond that point and something happens, the liability is off of the manufacturer. Insurance companies will require it. TMA requires it and I have a feeling it will be included in the finished version of saddle standards that is coming out very soon.
 
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So rope and biner ratings are of no value?

Replace expiration date with any other certification, test result, or rating.

I’m not saying they aren’t useful for performing calculations(as in math). I’m saying they’re useless, and downright dangerous when included in risk assessment as a mental exercise. They are arbitrary values, generated from related, but not exact processes to what you may encounter personally.

Humans suck at big numbers, probabilities, and statistics. Reliably. The only way to make them worse at it, is to give them actual numbers to play with in their back of envelope thinking.

What I’m saying is Unless you’re really good at the math involved in calculating risk, which likely involves significant training, “doing what everyone else is doing” is no more risky than you guessing, based on some numbers on the side of a carabiner, what to do. In fact, you’re probably at less risk of a significant failure or injury by doing what most other people are doing, rather than thinking you guess your way through it because of a stamped date or value.


My point all along with this concept has not been “do what everyone else is doing.” Or “ignore warnings, ratings, and guidelines.” I’m saying doing that is less dangerous than pretending you’re good at math.

The best thing to do is to recognize that the risk of leaving the ground, compared to not leaving the ground, is so much higher, that any precautions you take in doing so are statistically irrelevant. Once you accept that, it grounds your expectations properly, and you can work through the math with the proper framework.
 
5-6 years is pretty standard for safety harness used in construction.....some say they have to be replace ever year.......safety harness I used last time I was hanging some steel was probably 15 years old.....supposed to swap out toothbrush every 3-4 months according to CDC...... living dangerous
Wearing these on Florida public land is living dangerously lol
B594B43C-A22E-4069-B05C-C6FAB0FF0774.jpeg
 
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