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Madrock Safeguard makes me uneasy

greg728

greg728

Active Member
SH Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
197
Location
Pennsylvania
Ive been practicing with my madrock trying to decide if I want to stick with the one sticking thing. The issue I’m having is my madrock is very all or nothing feeling and it’s tough to find that sweet spot when I’m rappelling down. I either don’t open it enough and don’t go anywhere or I open it too much and I rappel very fast. I’m not sure if it’s my device or the amount of tension I’m keeping with my brake hand on the tag end of the rope. Has anyone had similar concerns and is there another belay device that’s a little more forgiving and less sensitive? I’m open to feedback I just want to get more comfortable with my equipment.
 
greg728 said:
I think I may be holding my rappel rope too tight with my brake hand.
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This.
It takes time to get a feel. I find it is more about how firmly you are wrapping it behind your lower back then how hard you are gripping it. Something I think I remember from my limited rappelling training decades ago. Not an expert by any means.

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Everyone has already mentioned it but most use the Madrock incorrectly. Your brake hand (the hand holding the rope while driving the rope into your hip) controls your descent. The hand operating the the lever is merely operating the safety.

Get 5 feet off the ground, drive the rope into your hip with the brake hand and fully open the safety with your other hand. You shouldn’t move an inch and by releasing the tension on your brake (hip) hand, you’ll slowly and deliberately descend.


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I played with my buddies madrock and hated it. There’s nothing better than the simple figure 8 in my opinion. I will never use mechanical devices that have my life dangling from them no matter the ease of use they can add. But I’m a mechanic and i make my living repairing failed mechanical devices lol
 
If you give it a good go, employ the advice given here about descent control with your brake hand (as opposed to your Safeguard latch hand), and still can't get the hang of the Safeguard or still feel uneasy about it... I'd like to offer the super-munter as a viable option. I poopooed ol @Weldabeast for quite a long time because he didn't use a whiz-bang Safeguard. Eventually I ended up using the super because I got out of rappelling for a bit and sold off my Safeguard. Honestly, I'm real sorry for discounting it for so long as I'm a firm proponent of the thing now.
 
MNFarmHunter said:
Everyone has already mentioned it but most use the Madrock incorrectly. Your brake hand (the hand holding the rope while driving the rope into your hip) controls your descent. The hand operating the the lever is merely operating the safety.

Get 5 feet off the ground, drive the rope into your hip with the brake hand and fully open the safety with your other hand. You shouldn’t move an inch and by releasing the tension on your brake (hip) hand, you’ll slowly and deliberately descend.


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I think I've just been afraid to open to brake fully I was always under the impression that it was a combination of two hands and finding a sweet spot with the madrock brake.
 
Tim0712 said:
I played with my buddies madrock and hated it. There’s nothing better than the simple figure 8 in my opinion. I will never use mechanical devices that have my life dangling from them no matter the ease of use they can add. But I’m a mechanic and i make my living repairing failed mechanical devices lol
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I recently watched a video where an ex military and rock climbing guy showed how to back up the madrock with a knot because of how easily that handle can be bumped and send someone to the ground. After watching that I always back mine up with a knot now. It takes two seconds to tie and can save your life if there's a mechanical failure. Probably not 100% fool proof but a lot safer than not having it.
 
greg728 said:
I think I've just been afraid to open to brake fully I was always under the impression that it was a combination of two hands and finding a sweet spot with the madrock brake.
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I’m not saying to fully open the safety, only open it enough to move. What I am saying is the safety doesn’t control your descent, your brake hand at your hip does.

Sorry for the confusion.


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I would use an auto-block on the tag end which when tied correctly will hold your position even with madrock lever wide open. Then lightly break the auto block to descend. Very easy to do, harder to explain...
 
deerfly said:
I would use an auto-block on the tag end which when tied correctly will hold your position even with madrock lever wide open. Then lightly break the auto block to descend. Very easy to do, harder to explain...
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i was doing this last year, felt safe, however was educated that in a dynamic fall using an auto-block below the device has a possibility of sliding high enough to bind inside the safeguard and cause it to fail in an open state. while this possibility is pretty low, it made me stop backing up the device and just using a good brake hand to control my descent (and this is why madrock actually warns against dong this in their literature). working on complete confidence with knots to ditch the mechanicals, but it is nice hitting the easy button. or in this case lever.
 
yes of course, you need to have enough separation between madrock on your bridge and autoblock on your linemans loop or secondary bridge to avoid that condition. I can't imagine madrock being against using an autoblock, more likely they're against using it wrong.

But again tying autoblock (correctly) is very easy to do and safe. I don't use mechanical belay devices for rappel any more, I use figure 8 or munter instead. When I'm descending with the intention of resetting or removing my platform I use the autoblock on my linesman loop so I can work hands free. Otherwise I tend the tag end by hand.
 
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