Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

[Weldabeast]

I paid him install a new string/tune when I had my first set of built by me higher foc arrows. His "shop" is one of those sheds u buy from home Depot in his yard....It's a nice setup with a roll of paper that drops down outta the rafters and a bag target for paper tune. He asked me to shoot an arrow thru paper and I did. Bow fires with a dull thump inside that little building....he walked over and pulled the arrow and started saying it was too heavy blah blah blah....hands me one of his go fast arrows and i shoot that 1 and the bow cracks like a .22.

Him: Did u hear the difference? That's speed and power.

Me: sure sounded much louder to me....wouldn't it be better to be quiet when we're hunting?

Him: ......blank stare......I can build u a set of these arrows for X amount of dollars

Me: I'm good. Thanks for the string and "tune"

Last time dealing with a shop/bow tech

 

[waltholmes5]

Ashby mostly uses fluid dynamics to bolster his arguments and sprinkles in friction where it's easiest.

They act quite differently.

Not throwing it all out the window, but what's going on seems to me quite a bit more nuanced than the science demonstrated.

Ashby did most of his testing refinement on freshly killed Asiatic Buffalo in Australia. He said his penetration results were even better on Live targets because there was blood pressure so everything was tight and more blood to lubricate the arrow.

 

[Horn]

Any of you guys do an arrow build with Sirius orions?

 

[Hank175]

Any of you guys do an arrow build with Sirius orions?

If it wasn't for the price that diameter and gpi might convince me to leave Black Eagle Carnivores

 

[Plebe]

Ashby did most of his testing refinement on freshly killed Asiatic Buffalo in Australia. He said his penetration results were even better on Live targets because there was blood pressure so everything was tight and more blood to lubricate the arrow.

Better than what? His mathamatics? How was this determined? And what is the conclusion?

 

[Horn]

If it wasn't for the price that diameter and gpi might convince me to leave Black Eagle Carnivores

They are awful spendy. I'd be bumming if I lost or broke them. I was just shooting black eagle rampage and I was liking them. Shooting 250 spine just for fun, but geez at 10.7 gpi I'll be at the Holy 650 TAW to have any FOC lol.

I'll admit I want to be a lot closer to 475 TAW with 15-16% foc

 

[Horn]

How many of you Ashby guys run multi-pin sights? I was shooting mostly at 35-40 and geez is there a difference with that rampage ( 505 total I think, probably puts fps @ 216 or so) I know that's really pushing the yardage for whitetail and I have no plans to shoot past 30 at deer but it does reinforce my concerns about trajectory/speed

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Better than what? His mathamatics? How was this determined? And what is the conclusion?

His conclusions were based on conditions that were as close as possible to real world situations.
Better than shooting gel or other artificial medium.
They wouldn't even obtain data after rigormortis set in because the results were less accurate.
The earlier tests were done in Africa and they were instructed by the game dept to shoot live animals at ALL angles whether good or bad in order to study broadhead performance. Non lethal hits were followed up with a firearm backup kill so the animal could be quickly autopsied.
I've heard Ashby say how many data points were collected on each shot but I can't remember how many other than it was substantual...several dozen on each and every hit if I recall.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

How many of you Ashby guys run multi-pin sights? I was shooting mostly at 35-40 and geez is there a difference with that rampage ( 505 total I think, probably puts fps @ 216 or so) I know that's really pushing the yardage for whitetail and I have no plans to shoot past 30 at deer but it does reinforce my concerns about trajectory/speed

Ashby ALWAYS qualifies the heavy arrow recommendation to say to shoot as heavy an arrow in which you can live with the trajectory. There's no "rule" that it needs to be a certain weight or certain foc.
I'm doing it with a recurve that most likely shoots heavy arrows in the range of 170 fps, and no sights.
You compound guys shooting 100 fps more should easily be able to shoot out to 40 yards. It's bow hunting. Get close.

 

[Plebe]

His conclusions were based on conditions that were as close as possible to real world situations.
Better than shooting gel or other artificial medium.
They wouldn't even obtain data after rigormortis set in because the results were less accurate.
The earlier tests were done in Africa and they were instructed by the game dept to shoot live animals at ALL angles whether good or bad in order to study broadhead performance. Non lethal hits were followed up with a firearm backup kill so the animal could be quickly autopsied.
I've heard Ashby say how many data points were collected on each shot but I can't remember how many other than it was substantual...several dozen on each and every hit if I recall.

@waltholmes5 is saying there was reportedly more penetration on live animals due to fluid lubrication (interstitial fluid, intravascular body fluid, and transcellular body fluid) reducing frictional effects than on cadavers.

I find it interesting.

I'm just wondering how this was measured, what the controls were, what degree of increase was observed, etc. If there were any more specific conclusions or just a broad stroke.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

@waltholmes5 is saying there was reportedly more penetration on live animals due to fluid lubrication (interstitial fluid, intravascular body fluid, and transcellular body fluid) reducing frictional effects than on cadavers.

I find it interesting.

I'm just wondering how this was measured, what the controls were, what degree of increase was observed, etc. If there were any more specific conclusions or just a broad stroke.

I'd refer your questions to the Ashby Bowhunting Foundation. You can email them. They certainly can give you better details than I can.

 

[Weldabeast]

@waltholmes5 is saying there was reportedly more penetration on live animals due to fluid lubrication (interstitial fluid, intravascular body fluid, and transcellular body fluid) reducing frictional effects than on cadavers.

I find it interesting.

I'm just wondering how this was measured, what the controls were, what degree of increase was observed, etc. If there were any more specific conclusions or just a broad stroke.

Here is all the data ..... https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/ashby-reports

 

[HuumanCreed]

How many of you Ashby guys run multi-pin sights? I was shooting mostly at 35-40 and geez is there a difference with that rampage ( 505 total I think, probably puts fps @ 216 or so) I know that's really pushing the yardage for whitetail and I have no plans to shoot past 30 at deer but it does reinforce my concerns about trajectory/speed

The trajectory/speed is a real concern. Its less so for guys shooting 70lbs compound but my 40lbs longbow with 225 (200tip+25insert) up front drop like a brick. Granted l dont plan to shoot at anything alive beyond 20 yards with a longbow, l had to make lighter arrows designed for practice and 3D because the trajectory was so bad. Yes yes, some of you are going to tell me that l shouldn't have 'practice' arrows. But 95% of the people l asked at a traditional shootout were using 100gr on the 3d courses, so its all about 'FOC' until you ran out of arrows before finishing a course!

I'm still on board the dust train. But l do get off at a stops to enjoy myself when needed.

I run multiple pins last year and yeah some of the gaps are discouraging. Next year I'm going to try single. With different sight tapes for different arrows.

 

[SD Guy]

Not sure If I found Ranch Fairy first or the Ashby reports. As things worked out I found both & for the most part Troy's videos are primarily based on his accurate takeaway's from the Ashby reports. So, while the the tongue in cheek question could have been presented differently, my takeaway of the question is, have we tried the Ashby principals that Troy is attempting to promote?

If that is the question, then yes I have. Though most of my archery whitetail deer hunting has been done with a 450 grain to 500 grain total arrow weight and I had acceptable results with the mid weight arrow tipped with both fixed blades & expandable broad-heads over the last 35 years. More often than not the broad-heads were 125 grains.
Last fall, most likely due to troys YT videos I opted to try a heavier arrow & one of those little 1 1/8" cut diameter single-bevel Broad-heads & try a tapered arrow for the sake of experimentation. That sample of one did not disappoint. Only took one archery deer last fall with the 650 grain arrow. Truth be told my old set up would have most likely worked as well as the plan B arrow.

What was different with last years deer was the deer was only lightly startled at the shot. Shot ended up being a bit high and back. Deer bound off for 15 yards walked another 20 yards & tipped over. Distance traveled after the shot was defiantly less than average. In that case the 1.125" diameter cut single bevel worked flawlessly. I look forward to experimenting more with this setup. I hope to take two deer next fall with the same or a similar set up.

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

Has anyone tried the EZV sight as opposed to pins? I’m wondering if that’s the cure for this pin gap confusion. Who cares about pin gaps when you can just pull up the sight, put the vitals in the sight window and let loose! Definitely an out of the box way of figuring out range. Depending on how my trajectory ends up being, I may switch. If I’m good within 25, I’ll probably stick with what I got honestly. I’m usually rocking my top pin anyways for 99.9% of my shots.

 

[michigandrake]

Has anyone tried the EZV sight as opposed to pins? I’m wondering if that’s the cure for this pin gap confusion. Who cares about pin gaps when you can just pull up the sight, put the vitals in the sight window and let loose! Definitely an out of the box way of figuring out range. Depending on how my trajectory ends up being, I may switch. If I’m good within 25, I’ll probably stick with what I got honestly. I’m usually rocking my top pin anyways for 99.9% of my shots.

I looked at them but more because I could not see my pins that great through my peep. At my speed of 225 fps the V got narrow really fast. It was like 15-20 yards and then it was a guessing game. The higher speed V's looked much more gradual and I would guess work better at hunting distance. I eventually opted for a geezer peep and stuck with multipin sights.

 

[kyler1945]

I looked at them but more because I could not see my pins that great through my peep. At my speed of 225 fps the V got narrow really fast. It was like 15-20 yards and then it was a guessing game. The higher speed V's looked much more gradual and I would guess work better at hunting distance. I eventually opted for a geezer peep and stuck with multipin sights.

The V is pretty much the same for 300fps.

It’s not a precise piece of kit for ranging.

It does benefit folks who have trouble with a pin post being over their target.

 

[SaddleUpPartner!]

I looked at them but more because I could not see my pins that great through my peep. At my speed of 225 fps the V got narrow really fast. It was like 15-20 yards and then it was a guessing game. The higher speed V's looked much more gradual and I would guess work better at hunting distance. I eventually opted for a geezer peep and stuck with multipin sights.

That’s good to know because my set up I think I’d be right around what you’re shooting as far as speed goes. My bow is gonna be lucky to break 200 fps with a 642 grain set up. I might have to go a little lighter.

 

[SD Guy]

Troy's compliment with the brain of Rocket man.

 

[krub6b]

How many of you Ashby guys run multi-pin sights? I was shooting mostly at 35-40 and geez is there a difference with that rampage ( 505 total I think, probably puts fps @ 216 or so) I know that's really pushing the yardage for whitetail and I have no plans to shoot past 30 at deer but it does reinforce my concerns about trajectory/speed

I run a 3 pin sight, 3rd pin is a floater so I can practice at elk range for the day I finally get it together and head west in September. I keep them set at 20, 30, 40 for most of the season with the gaps being very consistent between them. 70# bow, 29.5" draw, 310 IBO with a 650 TAW, not sure what actual speed is

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