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Shot placement article

MattMan81

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So my only complaint about collecting data and say your using data, is that you can't 100% confirm shot location if you don't recover the deer. Also no mention which way the deer was facing, and if they got a pass thru or not. But I do wonder on some of those why they had to call a tracker. Notice he didn't track any shot in the heart.

 
Several of those green “deer alive” dots were absurd lol. They were literally right in the vitals. I believe the author said “if you shoot farther back you’ll at least get one lung” not good advice in my opinion. I’m not saying try to shoot them through the shoulder blade either. If your arrow can’t get through just the meat of the shoulder your doing bow hunting wrong. As you say if the deer wasn’t recovered how does he even know where it was hit.
 
I simply don't believe or understand some of those supposed dead deer hits, especially the ones low in the brisket, etc. And the non lethal shots in the vitals. If they didn't recover the deer it should not be in the data set.
I will believe what I've seen myself and that is a heavier arrow will perform better once it gets TO the deer than a lighter one. I shoot for the "v" right next to the shoulder. I will not purposely shoot further back to get a pass through.
 
To save time here's the image map84739c0f-b51b-4a2f-bc6d-1ec0ea1e0b1b.jpg


Someone should track the tracker guy down and see how he got his green pin info
 
I normally respect Scott Bestul’s articles but this one felt…incomplete? Inaccurate? It seemed like “I have an opinion that I found some graphics and made some calls to support. I’ll now explain in a few words with little substance, how the graphics and calls support my opinion, at the expense of being pretty vague.”
Way more questions were brought up in my mind than answers, and those questions were not so much about the data but how that data was obtained, as many of you have stated.
The green pins have been beaten like a dead horse and I agree, how the hell could they have known? Video? Ok no problem, you’ll be pretty accurate but not accurate enough for “pinpointing” to that level of precision. Visual followed by testimony? Still ok, but getting greasier to handle by the second. What about the white pins, why do we even care? It seems that by the criteria laid out, white pins should have been green or blue, because the deer would have either been “too alive” requiring a follow-up shot, or potentially dying but unclear, necessitating a follow-up shot to guarantee lethality. How about this business of “at least you’ll get one lung”? That has NEVER been a good policy. I have shot two deer in one lung, and let me just tell you I’d MUCH rather miss outright or hit the guts than just one lung. And on that note, aiming for organ failure by targeting just “organs” is a sure fire recipe for either a single lung or gut shot, both of which suck, but only one results in a dead deer almost every time.
And let’s say you do hit further back, kinda in that last rib area as suggested, pop lung and/or liver, but don’t get a pass through? You’re probably now trailing a gut-shot deer anyway and/or a light-bleeder with lots of internal hemorrhaging and nowhere for that hot bacterial blood to go, as that broadhead will be fishing it’s way through “organs” but you’re creating a highly problematic situation of sepsis within your meat, which is a large reason why you shot the deer in the first place, and this is NOT a good way to educate hunters on using the harvest and “ethical” (whatever that means to you and for lack of a better term) shot selection IMO. Something similar happened to me recently (catch up with it in 2022 LFTS thread): made a pretty great shot on a 250+ pound buck, right behind the shoulder, both lungs and nicked heart, but my arrow didn’t pass through and broke off inside the deer. So while it was dying we jumped it, it bounded another 150 yards then piled up and drowned from his own internal bleeding, BUT when he got jumped the arrow must have reoriented because the broadhead had fished its way through the liver and stomach, then the deer sat overnight until we recovered him and he was completely spoiled. Thing is, according to video and autopsy, as well as blood trail, the shot was really good and there was zero stomach matter or liver blood on the ground, all frothy and bubbly but dripping instead of gushing. So we had no idea until we gutted him that the arrow had redirected post-breakage. We found a wound in the far rib/diaphragm from the broadhead but it was shallow enough to dislodge during movement. Long point made briefly, the “advice” given is ill-advised to my understanding of shot lethality (which of course can always be improved).
 
I will say this. My personal aimpoint matches up with his. I shoot big expandable heads. My thought process when I shoot a deer with any weapon is, "What aim point kills the deer and gives me the biggest margin for error?"

Like Tocqueville says, right but for the wrong reasons.
 
Based on the logic: these are all the shot placements that resulted in a tracker getting called, wouldn’t it make sense to aim at that quadrant over the heart where there are no thumbtacks?

I’m having a hard time taking this article seriously, it seems too anecdotal.
 
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Based on the logic: these are all the shot placements that resulted in a tracker getting called, wouldn’t it make sense to aim at that quadrant over the heart where there are no thumbtacks?
Dude, you win so far. That’s exactly the spot I’d be aiming for on a broadside deer, plus or minus a couple of inches north/south. That doesn’t mean I’m a genius Robin Hood, but I feel like you’re asking a very obviously great question that kinda nullifies the debate to some level. Like, that’s THE spot, right? Why were no deer shot there, but there appear to be loads of butt and gut shots? I understand “when a tracker had to be called” but doesn’t that in-and-of-itself taint the data? Maybe, or maybe that is simply the answer: shoot them there and no tracker will likely be called? I dunno I’m rambling a bit.
 
There's definitely lots of variables that can't be expressed on that 2d grid (actual hit location, shot angle, penetration, etc.) that would affect the outcome of a recovery.

BUT, poll 100 seasoned dog trackers on what hits they recover and which ones they don't and the answer would largely mirror the info conveyed in the grid. Deer hit back are usually found and deer hit forward or high usually aren't. That's an oversimplification but it's true.
 

@Nutterbuster

Shot angles and penetration are important.
Suspect If every one of those archery hunters involved in that study Chose an well tuned arrow with proper spine, with a heavy 150 grain plus, quality sharp COC single bevel head results would have varied greatly. And with that proper arrow setup, need for a tracking dog would be considerably less.
 
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