Cord question

[Dyehard]

If I wanted an eye to eye sling to tie a schwabisch hitch above my Madrock Safeguard while using 9mm canyon elite to rappel, what type, size, and length cord would you suggest?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

If I wanted an eye to eye sling to tie a schwabisch hitch above my Madrock Safeguard while using 9mm canyon elite to rappel, what type, size, and length cord would you suggest?

7mm for the eye to eye… length is personal preference really. I prefer something around 28 to 30” so it isn’t so close that it hinders the device, and has room to stretch and bite. but not be so far away that it’s hard to reach, tend, or break

 

[GeoFish]

I am using this on 10mm rope.
Says it's rated for 9mm. Plus made in the USA.

7mm VT Friction Hitch Cord (eye to eye)

The 7mm VT Prusik was designed for use on smaller diameter ropes. This specialty design features a tough, heat resistant Technora aramid sheath over durable nylon core strands. The core in this kernmantle design keeps the VT from flattening and binding up. A computerized large gauge sewing...

woodhuntingsaddles.com

 

[boyne bowhunter]

Sorry for the slight derail OP, this is more of a general question to you guys who back up your Safeguard (I've personally never really felt the need) with a hitch above the device.

How do you tend a schwabisch (or any other friction hitch) above the safeguard while on rappel? It seems to me that you don't have enough hands to pull the lever, tend the tag end and the friction hitch all simultaneously.

I understand the concept if the friction hitch is below the safeguard, the hitch just takes the place of your brake hand and as long as it never comes in contact with the safeguard it works as advertised. However, if the friction hitch is above the Safeguard how do you actually release both under control? That friction on the tag end of the rope just seems critical to me.

 

[Dyehard]

Thank you @Fl Canopy Stalker and @GeoFish ! @boyne bowhunter I plan to try @Fl Canopy Stalker 's method with a cheap small carabiner and paracord to tend the hitch.

 

[BTaylor]

Sorry for the slight derail OP, this is more of a general question to you guys who back up your Safeguard (I've personally never really felt the need) with a hitch above the device.

How do you tend a schwabisch (or any other friction hitch) above the safeguard while on rappel? It seems to me that you don't have enough hands to pull the lever, tend the tag end and the friction hitch all simultaneously.

I understand the concept if the friction hitch is below the safeguard, the hitch just takes the place of your brake hand and as long as it never comes in contact with the safeguard it works as advertised. However, if the friction hitch is above the Safeguard how do you actually release both under control? That friction on the tag end of the rope just seems critical to me.

I know this will go against conventional wisdom but do you need to tend the brake side if your hitch is above the device? If you were using a munter below a friction hitch, your brake line hand is functioning the same as the lever on the safeguard. Where is the difference? This is for you too @Fl Canopy Stalker

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Sorry for the slight derail OP, this is more of a general question to you guys who back up your Safeguard (I've personally never really felt the need) with a hitch above the device.

How do you tend a schwabisch (or any other friction hitch) above the safeguard while on rappel? It seems to me that you don't have enough hands to pull the lever, tend the tag end and the friction hitch all simultaneously.

I understand the concept if the friction hitch is below the safeguard, the hitch just takes the place of your brake hand and as long as it never comes in contact with the safeguard it works as advertised. However, if the friction hitch is above the Safeguard how do you actually release both under control? That friction on the tag end of the rope just seems critical to me.

At our meet up, a guy was showing some people how he one stick climbed. He wasn’t backed up at all, he reached downward to his weak side (the side opposite of the handle) to pull up his one stick. He rotated a little bit too much. Now he claimed something on his saddle hung up his release handle but I’ve heard of rappel devices releasing if over rotated because the rope comes through at too little of an angle to safely engage… anyway with no thought to it at all he rotated hands free and grabbed his one stick and no quicker than he did he tumbled down the tree. Ask @Weldabeast @MADhunts or @ScottL, @JAYBO or any one who may have seen it, he fell insanely fast. It was scary (luckily he was only one move off the ground) but regardless it wasn’t something I’d want to do. However I think it highlighted the need for mechanicals to be backed up. I’m not sure a autoblock on his linesman would have helped in that instance but I am positive a hitch above the device would have prevented it.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I know this will go against conventional wisdom but do you need to tend the brake side if your hitch is above the device? If you were using a munter below a friction hitch, your brake line hand is functioning the same as the lever on the safeguard. Where is the difference? This is for you too @Fl Canopy Stalker

Is it 100 percent necessary? Yes and no. No the hitch will stop you but yes because a) who wants to stop every couple of seconds and break a hitch free? Also because your descent speed is your brake line hands pressure. So for speed control it is necessary but as far as safety, it’s not completely necessary. I prefer to man my brake line and tend the hitch loosely as a just in case

 

[raisins]

I am using this on 10mm rope.
Says it's rated for 9mm. Plus made in the USA.

7mm VT Friction Hitch Cord (eye to eye)

The 7mm VT Prusik was designed for use on smaller diameter ropes. This specialty design features a tough, heat resistant Technora aramid sheath over durable nylon core strands. The core in this kernmantle design keeps the VT from flattening and binding up. A computerized large gauge sewing...

woodhuntingsaddles.com

I use the same on 2 different 9 mm ropes and it works well

 

[Weldabeast]

I know this will go against conventional wisdom but do you need to tend the brake side if your hitch is above the device? If you were using a munter below a friction hitch, your brake line hand is functioning the same as the lever on the safeguard. Where is the difference? This is for you too @Fl Canopy Stalker

Ur brake hand isn't the brake hand anymore....it's the speed control...u feed the MM rope at the speed u want to go and ur upper hand compresses the hitch u til u want to stop. Let go and the hitch grabs. The hitch is applying pressure to the MM so it stays tight. When u ready to go hold ur speed control hand and break the hitch free

 

[St.CroixArcher]

At our meet up, a guy was showing some people how he one stick climbed. He wasn’t backed up at all, he reached downward to his weak side (the side opposite of the handle) to pull up his one stick. He rotated a little bit too much. Now he claimed something on his saddle hung up his release handle but I’ve heard of rappel devices releasing if over rotated because the rope comes through at too little of an angle to safely engage… anyway with no thought to it at all he rotated hands free and grabbed his one stick and no quicker than he did he tumbled down the tree. Ask @Weldabeast @MADhunts or @ScottL, @JAYBO or any one who may have seen it, he fell insanely fast. It was scary (luckily he was only one move off the ground) but regardless it wasn’t something I’d want to do. However I think it highlighted the need for mechanicals to be backed up. I’m not sure a autoblock on his linesman would have helped in that instance but I am positive a hitch above the device would have prevented it.

Do you happen to know what kind of rope he was using?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Do you happen to know what kind of rope he was using?

9mm Bluewater protac in olive drab.

 

[drpike22]

The video is very good and I agree with the need for a back up system. In my opinion (this is just my experience) if you have an auto block attached below your Gri Gri or Madrock Safeguard and it is attached to your linemans loop and you keep your brake hand above the auto block and in contact with it, it will not engage until you move your hand up the rope. I have tried it and it seems to work fine. As with all friction hitches you should be sure it is attached correctly and test it to be sure it is functioning properly. Differing opinions always welcome and helpful.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

The video is very good and I agree with the need for a back up system. In my opinion (this is just my experience) if you have an auto block attached below your Gri Gri or Madrock Safeguard and it is attached to your linemans loop and you keep your brake hand above the auto block and in contact with it, it will not engage until you move your hand up the rope. I have tried it and it seems to work fine. As with all friction hitches you should be sure it is attached correctly and test it to be sure it is functioning properly. Differing opinions always welcome and helpful.

Lots of guys utilize an autoblock (prusik) on the brake line side and attach it to the lineman’s loop. It works very well as long as you never ever have a dynamic event. It’s been discussed at great great lengths on multiple threads on this forum going back at least 6 years maybe more. The warnings from the belay devices say no knots or hitches on the brake because it can (has) caused catastrophic failure in dynamic loading events.
This is the reason for the hitch back up above the device on the line side instead of below on the brake side. Do with that information what you will. I’d rather people feel comfortable and confident in their set ups, than doing nothing and ending up hurt. As long as you know it’s technically incorrect, and accept the risks.

 

[BTaylor]

Is it 100 percent necessary? Yes and no. No the hitch will stop you but yes because a) who wants to stop every couple of seconds and break a hitch free? Also because your descent speed is your brake line hands pressure. So for speed control it is necessary but as far as safety, it’s not completely necessary. I prefer to man my brake line and tend the hitch loosely as a just in case

So you cant control speed with the lever? That was the part I wasnt sure about, not having the device myself.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

So you cant control speed with the lever? That was the part I wasnt sure about, not having the device myself.

You have more control of speed with the lever from a gri gri plus than a safeguard but in general, the lever isn’t really a speed control measure, the pressure you put on the brake line is the speed control

 

[BTaylor]

You have more control of speed with the lever from a gri gri plus than a safeguard but in general, the lever isn’t really a speed control measure, the pressure you put on the brake line is the speed control

Hitch above a munter works really easy with 2 hands. Think I will just stick with that.

 

[Weldabeast]

Hitch above a munter works really easy with 2 hands. Think I will just stick with that.

Steal stalkers idea of the upper tender....it works real good. I have a knut and I can allow all the slack between the knut and Mm to shock load with my weight and I can easily break the knut free

Cheap Stuff that Gets the Job Done

dollar fifty gizmo and an old shoelace. Tie shoelace to gizmo. Cut shoelace accordingly. Attach to rappel line before descent and tend ur backup friction hitch as u rappel. Breaks the hitch much easier if it's being stubborn letting go. Acts kinda like the wire release on ropeman

saddlehunter.com

 

[BTaylor]

Steal stalkers idea of the upper tender....it works real good. I have a knut and I can allow all the slack between the knut and Mm to shock load with my weight and I can easily break the knut free

Cheap Stuff that Gets the Job Done

dollar fifty gizmo and an old shoelace. Tie shoelace to gizmo. Cut shoelace accordingly. Attach to rappel line before descent and tend ur backup friction hitch as u rappel. Breaks the hitch much easier if it's being stubborn letting go. Acts kinda like the wire release on ropeman

saddlehunter.com

Havent messed with the knut. Used a modified happy hands all this past season and didnt really have any issues with it. Didnt really shock load it though, just dropped down and stopped to remove platform and then went on to the ground. If I was going to use a mech. device I would for sure be stealing his tender idea.

 

[Weldabeast]

I'm not trying to imply 1 hitch is better than the other....I'm saying having a way to tend that upper hitch without having ur hand on it is nice...cut the string long enough and u can tend with ur hand on ur bridge loop...I cut my string to were I can lean back comfortably and work the speed hand and tend the backup without extending my arm up to reach for the hitch