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Ropeman observation...YIKES!

Allegheny Tom said:
So I traveled around the tree a few minutes ago to change comfort positions and I noticed that the ropeman lever was up against the tree. Im not sure if it could have released with just a little more pressure or if the bark structure was slightly different, but when I laid eyes on it, I definitely had a pucker moment.
Might need to make some sort of keeper that prevents an accidental, full release.
Be careful!
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First, glad that you are uninjured.

Second, thanks for sharing with the community. We only grow stronger with collectively learning from each other’s experiences.

Third, I hope this is a good point for everyone’s further evaluation of their setups, regardless of what they choose.


For me, have switched from ropemans to distel and tender. I see a potential weakness in my choice if I start to fall and grab above the distel. It may tend out. What I do to address that is, I have a RCH backup and tie an alpine butterfly to a biner to my belay loop. Depending on the ratings of my tether rope, friction hitch rope and biner, it may be more robust to directly figure 8 to my belay loop. But I accept my choice. One day I may take the extra time to figure 8 to belay loop.

IMO, With the ropeman, it is more resilient against a human hand grabbing at the rope during an oh crap moment than using a friction hitch. But the end of a rm1 catching on thee tree or the metal loop catching on something and giving a quick ride down would not occur with friction hitch.

For me, I see that redundancies are good, regardless of which method one chooses, we should all strive to have redundancies in our systems.

Again, thanks for sharing and glad that you are safe.
 
I noticed the same thing when I was checking out shot angles. I offset my tether to the right side of the tree so that it can not touch the tree on the lever side.
 
If you still want to rely on the ropeman for your attachment to your tether, you can just add a shorter prussik below it that you don't keep taught. It's a backup in case the ropeman gives.

When I learned how to rappel off a cliff, i was taught that you use either your belay device or descender as your main attachment point which comes off the belay loop (with a sling) on your rock climbing harness. Then I was taught to attach a prussik to the leg loop of my harness, and then to the rope. The prusik was a backup in case you let go of the rope and therefor weren't applying enough friction to your belay device/descender to stop you or just maintain control. Only issue with relying on the prussik to save you in your instance is you are going to fall a little bit on a static line befroe the prusik grabs. This is good and bad in that the give from the prussik while grabbing will cushion your fall a little, but you are adding distance of fall on a static system at the same time, which increases exponentially the felt impact on you when it catches. On a dynamic rope this is actually a good thing, as the rope will elongate. On a static, that doesn't happen.
Personally I had the same thoughts as you are now having, and just went with a prussik and put the ropeman on my lineman belt.
My own personal conclusion was that I have a main prussik that's weighted, and a backup prussik that I kept loose. Much less of a chance that I would have an accident that dropped me onto the second prussik.
 
I run a prusik with my ropeman and a stopper knot. I may be wrong but I don't think the ropeman is meant for actual fall protection (I know it is very tough to fall far enough to matter in practice). It's piece of mind for me and can prevent pucker moments like that.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I don't want any surprises when I'm in a tree.
And if it released and I fell in just the wrong direction, it might be possible the lever may not free itself and not grab.
Btw, I dont put my stopper knot at the end of my tether.
I tie a new slip knot for each hang at the closest possible point under the ropeman. So, I may not fall to the ground but I could get injured on a broadhead, edge of the platform, step, etc.
And any of that COULD happen when positioning for a shot.
Just thought I would share the experience.

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I took a working at heights course. I don’t remember the exact physics but there is a big difference in force applied to you and associated injury when you fall a couple of feet vs a couple of inches.

Tying a knot just below your tether is a fantastic idea!!!


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robanna said:
And that's why you should have redundancy in all of your systems. Minimum is a stopper knot.

I also think you can put the wire on the biner and that will stop it from opening (at least make it very difficult to open accidentally).
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I use a rock climbing harness and a home made ass sling. I connect my sling bridge to a prusik and keep my harness connected to a ropeman.

This gives me redundancy.


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Allegheny Tom said:
So I traveled around the tree a few minutes ago to change comfort positions and I noticed that the ropeman lever was up against the tree. Im not sure if it could have released with just a little more pressure or if the bark structure was slightly different, but when I laid eyes on it, I definitely had a pucker moment.
Might need to make some sort of keeper that prevents an accidental, full release.
Be careful!
b6a834900f915b2d7725dbdbc6ba3f52.jpg


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Click to expand...
What if you shorten the bridge so that the carabiners will not be so close to the tre trunk?
 
Since the Ropeman is connected to the carabiner, hooked to your bridge, the ropeman would move if you moved, not the rope. So in reality, once you slipped a little the Ropeman would move off the tree and re-lock. Am I seeing this correct. Granted, even that would suck and I would have to clean up the britches.
 
I won’t use a Ropeman on my tether. For the small amount of adjustments I make it’s just not worth it. I totally trust a rope prussic but a mechanical device to hold my full body weight for an entire day not so much.
 
predatorhunter said:
Since the Ropeman is connected to the carabiner, hooked to your bridge, the ropeman would move if you moved, not the rope. So in reality, once you slipped a little the Ropeman would move off the tree and re-lock. Am I seeing this correct. Granted, even that would suck and I would have to clean up the britches.
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Probably in 99% of the falls the ropeman would lose tree contact and grab. But the particular position I was in, had the ropeman released, would have had me falling around the BACK side of the tree. There may have been enough tension on the tether to hold the ropeman against the tree and maybe prevent the lever from engaging.
Like I said earlier, you had to be there to see the situation in its entirety.
Was there ever any real danger? Maybe not, but it sure was unnerving. I think its just something that we should pay attention to, if for no other reason, it doesn't startle the crap out of us.
We hunt in some trees with crazy bark (shag nut huckory) or knots, or bumps, or stuff we've pruned. I feel certain there can be times when that lever could get pried the wrong way and release.
Be aware, be careful, be safe.

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Wow! That’s scary. I’ve never really needed that much adjustment on my tether that I couldn’t do with just a prussic knot. I only use a rope man on my lineman belt.
 
I’ve had a case with a similar ascender where I slipped down to my stopper knot because (dundun dun!) these are not fall arrest devices! They’re not guaranteed to catch you if you fall. Not saying someone shouldn’t use them on their tether, but know the device’s limitations

edited for grammar
 
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Dewey said:
I won’t use a Ropeman on my tether. For the small amount of adjustments I make it’s just not worth it. I totally trust a rope prussic but a mechanical device to hold my full body weight for an entire day not so much.
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I agree. In fact the ropeman is dangerous for this purpose because, unlike a prusik, you have to completely disengage it to lower yourself and if you take your weight off, pop the ropeman, then, don’t close it before you put your weight back on it you could fall until you let go of it.

Someone did a video about this issue and it was eye opening.


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I went away from a Ropeman on my tether a while ago because I took note of this during the summer. Love the Ropeman on my linesman, not so much on my tether.
 
Allegheny Tom said:
If I did that then I wouldn't need the ropeman. Ropeman is a requirement IMO on the linemans belt for one handed operation, but for the tether, a prussik is probably sufficient. I may rethink that part of my rig.

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I’ve been contemplating the same sir
 
Thanks for sharing
I’ve never used a ropeman on my tether I use a pursik set and forget it! I run two separate dual purpose linesman belt/bridges that can be used for either. One of the two has a ropeman 1 the other a pursik, when I attach to my tether I use the one with the ropeman and all of my adjustment is done on my bridge I absolutely love fusion carabiners I have one on every end point and my tether with the rope man is double carabinerd? In case the ropeman fails anyone else do something similar to this?
 
People need to keep in mind in nearly every case saddle hunters are using climbing, arborist and SAR gear in ways they were not designed to be used. There are a lot of similarities but we're generally re-purposing this stuff. So we need have both eyes wide open our application.

I came at all this a few years ago by researching what the arborist industry and community was doing. If I couldn't find a use case in the arborist community I didn't do it. Since arborists' "work" in tree's is doing really dangerous stuff they are a good baseline reference for saddle hunters with our relatively minimal needs in safety and climbing gear.

Arborist typically use rope locking devices like the CT Roll-n-lock in conjuction with a rigging plate or ring, which are more robust life support systems vs a single and unbacked RM1 and with a stopper knot on the tag. They also tend to use 7/16" rope and larger too, which are more forgiving and generally stronger than the thinner ropes we tend to use. There's lots of stuff out there on youtube to watch and learn from. Anything from Richard Mumford when he discusses gear we would use is worth watching many times...

1:37 as sling aduster:

Notice how the sling is secured to the bridge and the rollnlock is only used to change the length of the sling under tension relative to the climber. If rollnlock fails sling or tether is still secure. Doesn't necessarily eliminate the shock in a rollnlock failure, but you're not going all the way to the ground. I our case with tether you can either tie off the tether to the bridge or use an alpine butterfly and a carabiner, with a sane amount of slack and use the RM1 to make adjustments within that range. Accidently pulling the release cord results in only taking up the amount slack you allowed via your bridge connection. Still might hurt, but you're not going to the ground or worrying about the RM1 shredding the rope cover etc.

MUST WATCH: (this directly applies to issue OP mentioned due to unplanned release line getting opened, very important differences between Kong Duck (or RM!) and CT rollnlock. Notice too at end of video how he uses the rigging plate for his adjustable bridge)


Anyway, moral to the story, don't jump to conclusions blaming equipment until you fully understand the implications of how you're using it. :)
 
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