Tethrd One Climbing Sticks

[Navigator]

What other company has done as much for saddle hunting as Tethrd? How many have teach and trains like Tethrd? There not all bad, it’s time some of you grow up a little so we can have honest, open conversations about products.

Not a company, but two people come to mind. First, I would say John Eberhart. He has written books, magazine articles, interviews, bootcamps, DVDs, etc. highlighting his DIY sling. His bootcamp could be considered a Teach and Train at the highest level. Second, Red Squirrel who founded this very website where numerous saddle/sling enthusiasts gathered to share ideas, products, methods and safety. Red Squirrel's contribution to saddle hunting cannot be underestimated. In fact, it is what brought together the founders of Tethrd. And some would argue, the concepts/ideas/prototypes of some of Tethrd's products came from members on this forum (the ONE stick, in particular).

The Teach and Trains by Tethrd are primarily self-promotion. I don't consider that as doing much for saddle hunting as it is in promoting Tethrd's products. Do they have saddles from other companies there? All of the videos I have seen on YT just show Tethrd products. Are there other products in the marketplace that are just as good or even better than Tethrd's products? Some would say yes, including platforms, saddles and slings, but are those highlighted in the Teach and Trains?

Yes they are not all bad, but it is clearly self-promotion.

 

[d_rek]

Yes they are not all bad, but it is clearly self-promotion.

Now we're condemning a companies ability to self-promote? How rich!!

Man this thread is the pits. I'm just gonna peace out of this one. I should have never commented in the first place.

 

[Plebe]

Now we're condemning a companies ability to self-promote? How rich!!

Man this thread is the pits. I'm just gonna peace out of this one. I should have never commented in the first place.

Not condemning, giving context to.

Also, they do it because they are passionate about saddle hunting.

It's both.

 

[DeerLaughAtMe]

Who farted?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ImThere]

Not a company, but two people come to mind. First, I would say John Eberhart. He has written books, magazine articles, interviews, bootcamps, DVDs, etc. highlighting his DIY sling. His bootcamp could be considered a Teach and Train at the highest level. Second, Red Squirrel who founded this very website where numerous saddle/sling enthusiasts gathered to share ideas, products, methods and safety. Red Squirrel's contribution to saddle hunting cannot be underestimated. In fact, it is what brought together the founders of Tethrd. And some would argue, the concepts/ideas/prototypes of some of Tethrd's products came from members on this forum (the ONE stick, in particular).

The Teach and Trains by Tethrd are primarily self-promotion. I don't consider that as doing much for saddle hunting as it is in promoting Tethrd's products. Do they have saddles from other companies there? All of the videos I have seen on YT just show Tethrd products. Are there other products in the marketplace that are just as good or even better than Tethrd's products? Some would say yes, including platforms, saddles and slings, but are those highlighted in the Teach and Trains?

Yes they are not all bad, but it is clearly self-promotion.

That’s just pathetic.
On John Eberhart everything you mentioned was self promoting but you don’t condemn him and he’s with Tethrd. Lol.
Your 100% correct about Redsquirrel In fact he was part of founding Tethrd

Anyways I ain’t got no dog in this race peace out


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[Plebe]

That’s just pathetic.
On John Eberhart everything you mentioned was self promoting but you don’t condemn him and he’s with Tethrd. Lol.
Your 100% correct about Redsquirrel In fact he was part of founding Tethrd

Anyways I ain’t got no dog in this race peace out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably who has done the most for saddlehunting would make a great topic for a separate thread.

 

[Navigator]

Now we're condemning a companies ability to self-promote? How rich!!

Man this thread is the pits. I'm just gonna peace out of this one. I should have never commented in the first place.

That’s just pathetic.
On John Eberhart everything you mentioned was self promoting but you don’t condemn him and he’s with Tethrd. Lol.
Your 100% correct about Redsquirrel In fact he was part of founding Tethrd

Anyways I ain’t got no dog in this race peace out

Who's condemning? I was pointing out that doing the Teach and Trains was self-promotion and not necessarily as doing more for the saddle community in contrast to Eberhart or RedSquirrel. It's not like they are a non-profit organization out to teach and train saddle hunters. The expenses that Tethrd incurs to put on the Teach and Trains are certainly taken as tax deductions. They would be foolish if they didn't.

As for John Eberhart, I was referring to all of his activities prior to him becoming involved with Tethrd. The books, DVDs, interviews, bootcamps, etc. were done well before he became involved with Tethrd, nor was he promoting the sling that he uses in those books, DVDs, etc.. And as far as I can tell, John is not living the life of luxury. And he certainly isn't endorsing all of Tethrd's products. He has a Mantis, but still used his own DIY saddle. He uses a ROS and not a platform. He doesn't use sticks, according to his YT videos.

Imthere and d-rek are providing a strawman argument. No one was condemning anyone. ImThere asked who has done more for the saddle community than Tethrd. As far as I can see, nobody answered including D-rek. If you don't like my choices/opinion, that's fine. Provide your own selections or default to Tethrd being the end-all be-all of saddle hunting. I concur with Plebe that it would be a great discussion. The Mount Rushmore of saddle hunting, who are your four picks?

Is RedSquirrel with Tethrd? Is he listed on Tethrd's website as a founding father. https://tethrdnation.com/tethrd-team/

 

[Plebe]

Anderson, Eberhart, Green, Kuhnert, D'Acquisto, Guido, New Tribe, RedSquirrel, Tethrd, etc. I don't know we get here without them all. Its an evolution and a buildout.

As for the ONE sticks, probably Sandor27 was inspirational too.

 

[Plebe]

Looking at the sticks, if one was to replace the pins with bolts, the mating surfaces are dissimilar (flat on front, curved on back). I've seen curved head bolt (screws) but don't know if rated. I've also seen curved (saddle) washers. Both are made for specific tube radii.

What's the thought on what to use if one decided to make the switch to bolted hardware?

Also, is the cleat relying primarily on the glue for supporting weight, hence the rivet connection? If so, has anyone managed a solution given the questions surrounding the glue?

 

[Islandshooter]

Looking at the sticks, if one was to replace the pins with bolts, the mating surfaces are dissimilar (flat on front, curved on back). I've seen curved head bolt (screws) but don't know if rated. I've also seen curved washers. Both are made for specific tube radii.

What's the thought on what to use if one decided to make the switch to bolted hardware?

Also, is the cleat relying primarily on the glue for supporting weight, hence the rivet connection? If so, has anyone managed a solution given the questions surrounding the glue?

Got it on pretty good authority. That a class 10.9 and 12.9 metric bolt should be pretty good. The pins are 5mm but the hole might be slightly undersized. The roll pins are metric, about 95% of grade 8.

 

[redsquirrel]

Is RedSquirrel with Tethrd? Is he listed on Tethrd's website as a founding father. https://tethrdnation.com/tethrd-team/

I have no affiliation with Tethrd or any other saddle hunting company. I did briefly at the beginning but we went our separate ways and I wanted to keep this a vendor neutral site as the community grew.

 

[Vtbow]

It’s definitely the same song and dance on here. For three years we’ve been hearing how Tethrd is putting out unsafe products. First it was the mantis was unsafe because it has an amsteel bridge (rope untested for this application). It’s been three plus years when considering people using diy saddles with amsteel and as far as I know there hasn’t been any injuries due to using amsteel as a bridge. People are still expressing this concern today. I guess one will have to dry rot or someone will have to leave it outside for squirrels to eat it so the “I told you so” crowd can feel righteous. Next was the gen 1 predator. Again, it’s been 3 years, no catastrophic failures and no injuries reported that I’ve heard of. The only thing people have been able to come up with are some theoretical accidents that could happen. So far it’s been nothing more than an aggravation about spending good money on something that broke. If you’re worried about it you can break it ground level and they’ll send you a new gen 2 model. I’m sure there’s a pile of gen 1 platforms still working like a charm, including mine. Now it’s the one sticks. I’m pretty sure I’ve watched Garrett Prahl’s wife use them in his you tube videos. I don’t know Garrett, but he doesn’t seem like the type to let his wife use a death trap to make a few bucks off you guys. If you’re that concerned about safety then send them back. If you’re pissed about how much money you spent only for the glue to come off, then send them back. The most that needs to be said is “Hey guys just want to let everyone know the glue came off my sticks and I’m scared about the safety aspects so I’m sending mine back”. As others have said before, the rest is just noise.

I see and understand your point, but I believe I also understand why there is more frustration involved than just "aggravation about spending good money on something that broke.".

It appears that some of the main concerns are about information revolving around the products and that information changing. Some of the communication of that information has impacted product use, and in turn impacted trust in the company and the products-- which is a lot of what is driving the conversation in this thread.

A couple mainstream examples:
-"Toe hook the Predator to lock it in" ... "No don't toe hook it, that's what's causing failures"
-The change from the predator from a "Positioning Aid" to a "treestand platform" which is designed to "support a hunter"


Ok, so lets focus on the current product discussion on the ONE stick and the glue Vs. Roll pin. It was originally stated the glue was the 100% load bearing connection between the step and the post--it appears it has since be redacted to the exact opposite.

I hope you can empathize with those expressing their frustration and concern due to the distrust in the information they are getting from a company they have bought products from that support their life and/or could easily injure them in a failure(doesn't have to be catastrophic)

I'm going to reframe some of this a little. The predator is patented as a platform "designed to support a hunter". Obviously it is no longer referred to as a "Positioning Aid" and it is expected to support the hunter 100%. This puts it in a totally different category. Lets look at another industry that deals with parallel products. The climbing and mountaineering industry and other equipment designed to support the user. Do climbing ropes fail in the field, even non-catastrophic due to the manufacturing? No. Cams, stoppers, belay devices, even carabiners(though there have been biner issues there have been immediate recalls) same thing, No. A cam device or any other piece of protection with even a little bit of slop or slightest defect wouldn't ever hit the market because the one in a million(or more) chance it would fail in the field.

My point is this is a young, fast growing "race" of an industry at this point in time and it seems that some due diligence is being skipped in certain areas. I think this leads to how I interpret the point @kyler1945 is trying to make. What exactly are the climbing stick standards and are they actually representative of how failures may happen in actual use, or just a stamp of approval so products can be pushed to market and manufacturers can say "We did our best". What are the hard numbers on materials being used, and what kind of longevity do they have?

What will it take for people to trust Tethrd and their products again? I don't know....But I do know it will likely require a change in their marketing strategy, R&D and new product release timelines.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

If anyone is interested in some exploration the relevant TMA standards are listed here. You can find .pdf's of the individual TMA documents if you Google them. The actual test standards are the ASTM documents which would need to be purchased separately. FWIW, I have access to the ASTM documents through work and in a brief scan through they seemed to be the same in content. The ASTM documents are a bit more formal but the substance is effectively the same.

Current Standards - TMAStands

Treestand safety is the number one priority for the Treestand Manufacturer's Association (TMA). Learn about how you can be a safer hunter.

www.tmastands.com

 

[Plebe]

If anyone is interested in some exploration the relevant TMA standards are listed here. You can find .pdf's of the individual TMA documents if you Google them. The actual test standards are the ASTM documents which would need to be purchased separately. FWIW, I have access to the ASTM documents through work and in a brief scan through they seemed to be the same in content. The ASTM documents are a bit more formal but the substance is effectively the same.

Current Standards - TMAStands

Treestand safety is the number one priority for the Treestand Manufacturer's Association (TMA). Learn about how you can be a safer hunter.

www.tmastands.com

Recalls - TMAStands

www.tmastands.com

They also have a recalls list. You may have or know someone who has something listed.

 

[Navigator]

From the ASTM F3249 -20 Standard Specification for Treestands, Climbing Sticks, Tripod or Tower Stands https://www.astm.org/Standards/F3249.htm

1.4 This standard does not purport to address all of the safety concerns, if any, associated with its use. It is the responsibility of the user of this standard to establish appropriate safety, health, and environmental practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.

Based on the above, it is still a manufacturer's responsibility to address safety concerns not covered by the ASTM Standard.

 

[kyler1945]

I see and understand your point, but I believe I also understand why there is more frustration involved than just "aggravation about spending good money on something that broke.".

It appears that some of the main concerns are about information revolving around the products and that information changing. Some of the communication of that information has impacted product use, and in turn impacted trust in the company and the products-- which is a lot of what is driving the conversation in this thread.

A couple mainstream examples:
-"Toe hook the Predator to lock it in" ... "No don't toe hook it, that's what's causing failures"
-The change from the predator from a "Positioning Aid" to a "treestand platform" which is designed to "support a hunter"
View attachment 46173

Ok, so lets focus on the current product discussion on the ONE stick and the glue Vs. Roll pin. It was originally stated the glue was the 100% load bearing connection between the step and the post--it appears it has since be redacted to the exact opposite.

I hope you can empathize with those expressing their frustration and concern due to the distrust in the information they are getting from a company they have bought products from that support their life and/or could easily injure them in a failure(doesn't have to be catastrophic)

I'm going to reframe some of this a little. The predator is patented as a platform "designed to support a hunter". Obviously it is no longer referred to as a "Positioning Aid" and it is expected to support the hunter 100%. This puts it in a totally different category. Lets look at another industry that deals with parallel products. The climbing and mountaineering industry and other equipment designed to support the user. Do climbing ropes fail in the field, even non-catastrophic due to the manufacturing? No. Cams, stoppers, belay devices, even carabiners(though there have been biner issues there have been immediate recalls) same thing, No. A cam device or any other piece of protection with even a little bit of slop or slightest defect wouldn't ever hit the market because the one in a million(or more) chance it would fail in the field.

My point is this is a young, fast growing "race" of an industry at this point in time and it seems that some due diligence is being skipped in certain areas. I think this leads to how I interpret the point @kyler1945 is trying to make. What exactly are the climbing stick standards and are they actually representative of how failures may happen in actual use, or just a stamp of approval so products can be pushed to market and manufacturers can say "We did our best". What are the hard numbers on materials being used, and what kind of longevity do they have?

What will it take for people to trust Tethrd and their products again? I don't know....But I do know it will likely require a change in their marketing strategy, R&D and new product release timelines.

I have been vocal about some initial concerns I had with some of Tethrd's business decisions. Those concerns were both personal and technical in nature. They've since made a pile of money on a successful business model. I don't view things black and white. The sum of what they're doing is positive.

I have since attempted to steer these types of conversations in a constructive direction. I want them to succeed in getting these products designed, built and in the hands of people like me. I want the fringe benefits that come along with new stuff succeeding.

I know for a fact that the more grade school valley girl nonsense (no offense to any of our female members) attached to the technical conversations, the less inclined anyone with skin in the game will be to make progress.

I might be in the minority, but I see a golden marketing opportunity with recording some actual testing, beyond minimum requirements. Especially with regard to completely novel designs. That's probably the part that bothers me the most - there's a free, if not profitable chance to give people more information.

There's literally zero downside to testing this stuff to failure in ways that reflect it's actual usage. And there's tremendous upside. Maybe this type of work is happening behind the scenes, but two things lead me to believe it's not: Product issues after release, and the fact we're not seeing it. They're too good at marketing to let that stuff sit on a server somewhere.

 

[Plebe]

I have been vocal about some initial concerns I had with some of Tethrd's business decisions. Those concerns were both personal and technical in nature. They've since made a pile of money on a successful business model. I don't view things black and white. The sum of what they're doing is positive.

I have since attempted to steer these types of conversations in a constructive direction. I want them to succeed in getting these products designed, built and in the hands of people like me. I want the fringe benefits that come along with new stuff succeeding.

I know for a fact that the more grade school valley girl nonsense (no offense to any of our female members) attached to the technical conversations, the less inclined anyone with skin in the game will be to make progress.

I might be in the minority, but I see a golden marketing opportunity with recording some actual testing, beyond minimum requirements. Especially with regard to completely novel designs. That's probably the part that bothers me the most - there's a free, if not profitable chance to give people more information.

There's literally zero downside to testing this stuff to failure in ways that reflect it's actual usage. And there's tremendous upside. Maybe this type of work is happening behind the scenes, but two things lead me to believe it's not: Product issues after release, and the fact we're not seeing it. They're too good at marketing to let that stuff sit on a server somewhere.

XOP drove a truck atop their platform.

 

[DanielB89]

The Teach and Trains by Tethrd are primarily self-promotion. I don't consider that as doing much for saddle hunting as it is in promoting Tethrd's products. Do they have saddles from other companies there? All of the videos I have seen on YT just show Tethrd products. Are there other products in the marketplace that are just as good or even better than Tethrd's products? Some would say yes, including platforms, saddles and slings, but are those highlighted in the Teach and Trains?

I am baffled by this portion... OF COURSE IT IS SELF PROMOTION.. Would you expect any company to take them time, efforts, and resources to travel around promoting the use of saddles while hunting to use someone else's products? lol.

I do want to publicly apologize to you for when I used to travel around to archery shoots as a vendor and promoted my own bowstring company. It would have been a better business model for me to use someone else's products when I used my time, money, and efforts to set up as a vendor..

 

[Navigator]

DanielB89,

Sorry you missed the context of ImThere's question. He implied that Tethrd (with the example of the the Teach and Trains) is doing more for the saddle hunting community than any one else. I gave several examples of others who I believe do more. If you don't like them, great. Provide your own selections.

I am baffled by this portion... OF COURSE IT IS SELF PROMOTION.. Would you expect any company to take them time, efforts, and resources to travel around promoting the use of saddles while hunting to use someone else's products? lol.

Yes I would IF they were doing it for the betterment of the saddle hunting community. They couldn't compare and contrast other products along with the Tethrd products at these events for the betterment of the saddle hunting community? Seems like a missed opportunity if you want to better the saddle hunting community. Why do you think the regional get togethers are so popular where you are able to try all sorts of products from different companies? Saddlepalooza is the most recognized one. It seems that the Teach and Trains had as its foundation the Saddlepalooza concept.

OF COURSE IT IS SELF PROMOTION. Don't confuse that with doing more for the saddle hunting community than anyone else.

No apologies needed, as I don't think you are claiming you are doing more for the archery community than anyone else.

 

[Plebe]

Of course the T&T sessions do more than just self-promotion, and I think a nice focal point of the offerings is probably their teaching safety which may significantly benefit novices taking up the sport.

But, there are saddle hunting meet ups happening across the country that are exploring gear and methodologies across brands and disciplines. Much of that is facilitated by the connectivity this sight has offered. While Tethrd has been a driving force in recently popularizing saddlehunting and modern design, saddlehunting likely advances far faster when diverse backgrounds are combined with diverse gear, no? Thats much of the context of the Navigator's aforementioned statement.

This has little to do with the ONE stick, unless they are teaching and training on it and offering open dialogue about it via Q&A. Would love to hear about that from attendees of this years circuit.