Who’s running 1/8 in amsteel tether?

[iamcorey]

This is what I don't get, are several of us using Amsteel for our saddle bridges????

I don’t, but rumor is there are a few people hanging from it.

 

[raisins]

I'll bite on the amsteel bridge.

I was dead set against it and removed the one that came on my Cruzr XC and replaced with oplux and trc.

However, my new main saddle (woods deluxe from @Fl Canopy Stalker ) came with one, and I kept it on. Here's why:

1. it is all 1/4" amsteel with full bury....which is massively strong but not the best in a dynamic situation
2. however, i am running a dynamic rope tether this year, plus the saddle material and my body all compress somewhat which helps a lot with the loading on that bridge
3. the hitch side is 1/4" full bury Blake's hitch....this grabs well and gives me a lot more confidence than the twisted up smaller diameter amsteel hitches used on other saddles (like Cruzr)
4. Woods saddles has 3rd party drop test videos using that bridge and they are extreme enough that i'll never do anything close to it

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I'll bite on the amsteel bridge.

I was dead set against it and removed the one that came on my Cruzr XC and replaced with oplux and trc.

However, my new main saddle came (woods deluxe from @Fl Canopy Stalker ) came with one, and I kept it on. Here's why:

1. it is all 1/4" amsteel with full bury....which is massively strong but not the best in a dynamic situation
2. however, i am running a dynamic rope tether this year, plus the saddle material and my body all compress somewhat which helps a lot with the loading on that bridge
3. the hitch side is 1/4" full bury Blake's hitch....this grabs well and gives me a lot more confidence than the twisted up smaller diameter amsteel hitches used on other saddles (like Cruzr)
4. Woods saddles has 3rd party drop test videos using that bridge and they are extreme enough that i'll never do anything close to it

I have come to the conclusion that only insane people show their drop tests on line because if people saw it, it might scare them away from wanting to saddle hunt lol
Must be why @always89y and myself are some of the only ones crazy enough to film it

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I'm just curious about why this is such a bad idea though? I mean many of us have saddle systems with straight Amsteel bridges? Arguably, the most important point of attachment? I don't claim to be an expert in any of the rope or amsteel stuff and am not trying to be a contrarian but I'm honestly curious about why this is thought any more unsafe than an amsteel bridge? Are you concerned with the diminutive diameter of it? So a 3/16" Amsteel tether would be acceptable? I do understand bends in amsteel cause weakness but I know from personal experience, the Amsteel plow rope on my ATV snow plow takes a heck of a beating every winter and when I'm getting stuck hauling a load of wood out and it takes a lot of harsh abuse.

How to Break Nylon & Dyneema® Slings | DMM Wales

dmmwales.com

Just in a nut shell, your bridge is a double rope set up (ie basket configuration) similar to Ddrt climbs or 2 leg hitch cord. This spreads the load to two points of contact in turn lessening the force. Amsteel while much stronger than nylon or polyester, stretches way less and therefore weakens greatly in a dynamic load. Since the bridge is basket configuration, it shouldn’t ever see a force anywhere near its breaking load dynamically. But a tether is a single rope point of contact. Throw in that friction hitches are usually smaller than the main rope size and subject to more force and friction because it’s a single rope and you now have a recipe for disaster. Amsteel is dyneema. I attached an article and video from DMM (manufacturer of many safety items for rock climbing and fall arrest. Look how much better nylon slings do in shock loads than dyneema

 

[BTaylor]

How to Break Nylon & Dyneema® Slings | DMM Wales

dmmwales.com

Just in a nut shell, your bridge is a double rope set up (ie basket configuration) similar to Ddrt climbs or 2 leg hitch cord. This spreads the load to two points of contact in turn lessening the force. Amsteel while much stronger than nylon or polyester, stretches way less and therefore weakens greatly in a dynamic load. Since the bridge is basket configuration, it shouldn’t ever see a force anywhere near its breaking load dynamically. But a tether is a single rope point of contact. Throw in that friction hitches are usually smaller than the main rope size and subject to more force and friction because it’s a single rope and you now have a recipe for disaster. Amsteel is dyneema. I attached an article and video from DMM (manufacturer of many safety items for rock climbing and fall arrest. Look how much better nylon slings do in shock loads than dyneema

Dude in the video has to be a one sticker.

Interesting video, really highlights the amount of force that can be generated by a very short fall.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Dude in the video has to be a one sticker.

Interesting video, really highlights the amount of force that can be generated by a very short fall.

Yea 60cm is only 23” drop.and the dummy they used was 80kg which is 176lbs for us Americans. Just for reference

 

[Red Beard]

How to Break Nylon & Dyneema® Slings | DMM Wales

dmmwales.com

Just in a nut shell, your bridge is a double rope set up (ie basket configuration) similar to Ddrt climbs or 2 leg hitch cord. This spreads the load to two points of contact in turn lessening the force. Amsteel while much stronger than nylon or polyester, stretches way less and therefore weakens greatly in a dynamic load. Since the bridge is basket configuration, it shouldn’t ever see a force anywhere near its breaking load dynamically. But a tether is a single rope point of contact. Throw in that friction hitches are usually smaller than the main rope size and subject to more force and friction because it’s a single rope and you now have a recipe for disaster. Amsteel is dyneema. I attached an article and video from DMM (manufacturer of many safety items for rock climbing and fall arrest. Look how much better nylon slings do in shock loads than dyneema

So a full bury tether (say ¼ or so) would be ok because it's in a basket config?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

So a full bury tether (say ¼ or so) would be ok because it's in a basket config?

A tether is not in basket configuration. A linesman rope would be but a tether is single lined

 

[Red Beard]

A tether is not in basket configuration. A linesman rope would be but a tether is single lined

Roger. I totally misread your post. I was thinking you were making the point that a full bury Amsteel bridge would double the strength of the bridge because it is two strands vs the normal one.

 

[TNSTAAFL]

A tether is not in basket configuration. A linesman rope would be but a tether is single lined

Just keeping the thought train going:

How about a tether deployed in a basket configuration? Never seen one but I'm picturing a normal girth hitch and then re-attach the tag end up near the original girth, with a quick link or something? Then hook your bridge into the loop created by the two connections?

I'm not encouraging this or angling to do such. This is purely intellectual curiosity to learn more about all these interesting rope techniques & theories.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Red Beard]

Just keeping the thought train going:

How about a tether deployed in a basket configuration? Never seen one but I'm picturing a normal girth hitch and then re-attach the tag end up near the original girth, with a quick link or something? Then hook your bridge into the loop created by the two connections?

I'm not encouraging this or angling to do such. This is purely intellectual curiosity to learn more about all these interesting rope techniques & theories.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Totally derailing this thread for a minute... what about this? Very tree squeeze-like. @Fl Canopy Stalker, would both the blue and pink be considered a basket configuration?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Totally derailing this thread for a minute... what about this? Very tree squeeze-like. @Fl Canopy Stalker, would both the blue and pink be considered a basket configuration?
View attachment 72075

Yes both would be basket configuration. But you don’t want the blue end to be that close together. You want them closer to the sides of the tree

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Roger. I totally misread your post. I was thinking you were making the point that a full bury Amsteel bridge would double the strength of the bridge because it is two strands vs the normal one.

No Brocky said that but I don’t necessarily agree. When you bury you’re creating a splice, the weak spot will still be the entry of the splice, if it breaks the remaining bury does nothing fro strength since the cover that traps the bury would be broken.

 

[Brocky]

Just keeping the thought train going:

How about a tether deployed in a basket configuration? Never seen one but I'm picturing a normal girth hitch and then re-attach the tag end up near the original girth, with a quick link or something? Then hook your bridge into the loop created by the two connections?

I'm not encouraging this or angling to do such. This is purely intellectual curiosity to learn more about all these interesting rope techniques & theories.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Similar idea to arborist’s who ascend on a single rope and have a pulley on a friction hitch to use a Moving Rope/ DRT system, when they get to the top, called the Secret Weapon when it first appeared. Low friction rings would keep it quite.

 

[Brocky]

No Brocky said that but I don’t necessarily agree. When you bury you’re creating a splice, the weak spot will still be the entry of the splice, if it breaks the remaining bury does nothing fro strength since the cover that traps the bury would be broken.

Agree, it can only be as strong as a spiced single strand, straight bury looses 5%, or less.
However, the splice will be in a basket configuration when used as a tether, seeing half the weight.

 

[GeoFish]

Yes both would be basket configuration. But you don’t want the blue end to be that close together. You want them closer to the sides of the tree

Is their a easy DIY tree squeeze for saddle hunters? Would you recommend one?

 

[mikeout10]

This is why I think we need to have a Saddle Manufacturer's Association (SMA) safety certification association that independently rates saddles and saddle systems from the tether to the leg loops. Similar to the TMA, which I know many current saddlemakers are subjecting their great saddles to. I just think it needs to drill down further so a Best Saddle Materials and Practices can be developed for everyone getting into it. I'm sure this has been discussed before so my apologies to all who have thought about these things before.

. Ah yes, some more regulations and three letter acronyms is just what we need.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Is their a easy DIY tree squeeze for saddle hunters? Would you recommend one?

Yes a tree squeeze can be made just like a lineman’s rope, only with a carabiner on the eye end and a carabiner on the end with the prusik. Wrap it similar to Redbeard’s drawing, and then add your bridge or lineman’s rope inside of it. That’s a very simple make of a squeeze. If you have a saddle with a lot of hip pinch or squeeze along the hip flexors, the squeeze attached to your bridge will actually keep your bridge loops more opened helping reduce the pinch from a leaning position. (Unless your bridge is extremely long though, it’s too close to the tree for sitting).

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

. Ah yes, some more regulations and three letter acronyms is just what we need.

More regulations? There are exactly zero approved and enforced saddle regulations as we speak. We need some form of regulations. With all these new hunters taking to the saddle craze and people popping up left and right making and selling saddles and sticks, there has never been a better time than now for some rules and regulations for the greater good of everyone using this stuff

 

[Rjschatts]

If it’s a nonprofit organization it could be useful but if it’s a government organization we will get screwed over like the AFT, making unnecessary rules. But a set a set of standards might not be a bad thing to prevent the Tethrd types of decisions to rush things out.


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