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Friction Hitches

steveharvey said:
For the most part, I saw a video on here and a few people successfully tied it with sewn loop so that's why it's there. but for the purposes of this it may be best to stick to the most conventional/easiest methods.
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You’re right I was thinking conventional
 
gcr0003 said:
You’re right I was thinking conventional
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It and the Sticht can be tied with a loop if a rope end is available.

There are also split tail, or single eye hitches, some which can also be used with the end of the rope. Many hitches could fit in more than one type, like the Knut H.

Much of friction hitch use is personal preference, an accurate, or mutually agreed on flow chart, would be challenging.
 
steveharvey said:
This thread has been extremely informative and thought-provoking. As a semi-newb fascinated by the different hitches but somewhat overwhelmed, I have been thinking about a decision tree flow chart, based on what you have available, and what features you are looking for. It may prove useless or confusing but I wanted to give it a go. I need some help from @Brocky or someone with the experience and a little time if we want to really make it accurate and useful, but here goes! Obviously it's not an exhaustive list but I would argue we should only know a few very well, determine our preference, and get back to hunting. Anyone want to help?
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I applaud the scientific approach but agree with Brockys last comment. The dimensions of the solution space are too large to fit on a flowchart. Here are some thoughts as I have thought about it before. It's a 3 dimensional space at minimum:

Dimension 1 is a practical set of hitches.

Dimension 2. FEATURES you might need in a hitch, and how well each hitch performs in that area. Some features to consider are:
Complexity
Hold / strength
Jam resistance
Breakable under normal load
Reliability
Stability
Unidirectional or Bidirectional
Self tending
Geometry/size

Dimension 3: The Application and the features needed. It will vary per climber. Some are willing to accept greater complexity for better performance... butnot everyone.

Select by :
1. Prioritize the requirements for the application
2. identify the hitches with those features.
3. Make a decision, testing as appropriate.

Example 1, My Bridge loop holds my bridge via a Compact JRB Ascender. I needed something one hand operational both ways, and ultra compact.

Example 2. My SRT rope has a Longhorn Agile. Because i wanted something easier to tie since I often remove it. But still great performance, breakable under load, etc. Compact isn't important here.

Example 3. Bubba Joe can't tie his shoes and has no interest in learning how to tie anything complex. But his very popular rappel device frequently slips and I want him to have a backup that's easier than tying his shoes: Hedden. But don't try to climb on it! It's here cuz its simple, stong and reliable.



JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
thedutchtouch said:
This is an impressive thread but admittedly I get a bit lost in the detail. I keep trying to use hitches, but keep going back to mechanicals because they are easier for my lazy brain to remember how to use, or I psych myself out with "what if you don't remember and tie it wrong in the dark", and then the mechanicals undoubtedly make some noise or give me some minor issue and I think "I should go back to less metal". Icing on the cake is one of my CT rollnlocks is getting a bit sticky for lack of better description, harder to get it to open/release the rope when not loaded at all.

So, I'm guessing it's answered more than one in the last 27 pages but also asking here- is there a somewhat general consensus for the "easiest hitch" for general tether use? Let's say one that holds well but could break under load if needed, but no need for remote release. Even the breaking under load isn't completely necessary, primary use is just mechanical ascender replacement, with emphasis being on ease of tying/simplicity? Good old standard prussik? I currently have 8mm ropes but not opposed to switching it up for my (2tc) tethers. Also not opposed to getting new hitch cord, be it a loop or length with sewn eyes.

Recommitting to metal free this off season. I think.
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Yep, ditto….. me too!
 
John RB said:
I applaud the scientific approach but agree with Brockys last comment. The dimensions of the solution space are too large to fit on a flowchart. Here are some thoughts as I have thought about it before. It's a 3 dimensional space at minimum:

Dimension 1 is a practical set of hitches.

Dimension 2. FEATURES you might need in a hitch, and how well each hitch performs in that area. Some features to consider are:
Complexity
Hold / strength
Jam resistance
Breakable under normal load
Reliability
Stability
Unidirectional or Bidirectional
Self tending
Geometry/size

Dimension 3: The Application and the features needed. It will vary per climber. Some are willing to accept greater complexity for better performance... butnot everyone.

Select by :
1. Prioritize the requirements for the application
2. identify the hitches with those features.
3. Make a decision, testing as appropriate.

Example 1, My Bridge loop holds my bridge via a Compact JRB Ascender. I needed something one hand operational both ways, and ultra compact.

Example 2. My SRT rope has a Longhorn Agile. Because i wanted something easier to tie since I often remove it. But still great performance, breakable under load, etc. Compact isn't important here.

Example 3. Bubba Joe can't tie his shoes and has no interest in learning how to tie anything complex. But his very popular rappel device frequently slips and I want him to have a backup that's easier than tying his shoes: Hedden. But don't try to climb on it! It's here cuz its simple, stong and reliable.



JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
Click to expand...
Hey now…. I can tie my shoes!! :)
 
Compact JRB Ascender on my bridge and my linesman. I also have a JRB ascender (the one that can switch between one long loop on the end or two short loops) that is pretied on my climbing rope - that I use as my tether at height. I can use the JRB ascender with the longer loop while climbing to get me more height per move. Once at height I normally shorten (double up) the loop my carabiner is attached to since it is more compact and helps with comfort.

I have also used the longhorn agile when needing to tie at the tree. The longhorn was pretied. I have yet to try the sticht that was spoken about recently, but the JRB ascender has worked really well for climbing , rappelling, and my tether. When rappelling, the hitch is used as my back-up to a figure 8.

These have worked well with one hand tending, locking down, and easily releasing. In fact, I had two instances over the past two years where I had to rely on only the hitch to rappel on - and they worked a treat.
 
Maybe the starting point of the chart should be what it is used for, tether, hanging, or climbing, linesmen’s, adjustable bridge, rope climbing, rappelling. Which boils down to is the system a Moving Rope System, also called DRT, or a fixed, SRT system. Next the hitches that fit those last two catagories.
 
gcr0003 said:
Neat concept, I love flow charts. Sitcht and knut H need to be moved to length of chord or eye to eye. It’s not standard for them to be tied with a sewn loop. The Longhorn or the longhorn agile may be able replace as it can be tied with a single sewn loop @John RB ?
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I tie my Sticht with a sewn loop... LOL. But then I do admit I'm different!
 
bowhunthard88 said:
I tie my Sticht with a sewn loop... LOL. But then I do admit I'm different!
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I thought it would be possible, finally got around to trying to tie a Soft Sticht with a loop.
IMG_6586.jpeg
Back to the flow chart, an excellent idea, but maybe not the way to go. I agree it gets confusing, maybe another thread that shows friction hitches, how to tie them, and a brief comment, something like the 2TC video thread?
 
Brocky said:
I thought it would be possible, finally got around to trying to tie a Soft Sticht with a loop.
View attachment 98410
Back to the flow chart, an excellent idea, but maybe not the way to go. I agree it gets confusing, maybe another thread that shows friction hitches, how to tie them, and a brief comment, something like the 2TC video thread?
Click to expand...
@Brocky, a few weeks ago I was doing some side by side tying and testing of different friction hitches and increasing load above my body weight. Have you ever had the rope pop through the ring in the Sticht? Basically the cordage pulls it through and it kinda capsizes. I was using a small ring and 6mm cord on 8mm RescTech. By the way, I am not 100% sure which post above has your preferred ring Sticht version. Please advise or repost the photo or drawing. Thx.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
bowhunthard88 said:
Right eye dominant?!?
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Yes sir! I shoot and throw and pretty much do everything right handed but I write left handed and eat left handed. I used to frustrate my grade school teachers as they always wanted to give me lefty scissors and I can’t cut a thing left handed. I can switch hit pretty good, I hammer with both hands no problem but I am definitely right eye dominant!
 
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