Tree Stand Harness

[tailgunner]

And off my jobsight..Ha ha ha haaahhh ..I love it..i reserve the right to risk my life for fun...no breathalisers either please...Oh here come the panic policemy little sister looks at me like im the bigest VJJ. When i tell her she should wear a harness in her ladder stand ..shes like you dont even wear one on the roof.im like i dont want to trip over the rope..but hey..merca!

 

[tailgunner]

I dont think that om aloud to use the word outlaw on this forum...or i would chant it like Tupac

 

[Dope on a Rope]

I dont think that om aloud to use the word outlaw on this forum...or i would chant it like Tupac

trading stick stories

 

[tailgunner]

We outlaws on the rize.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Keep OSHA out of saddle hunting!

Noted… would you prefer ANSi ot TMA??? The point is there are organizations that have already done the testing and data to determine which harness is correct for different situations…

 

[elk yinzer]

TMA sucks! Cartel wannabes.

And Z133 is for tree work, which we are asbolutely not doing in spite of a couple parallels.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

TMA sucks! Cartel wannabes.

And Z133 is for tree work, which we are asbolutely not doing in spite of a couple parallels.

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but…. That “wannabe cartel” will be involved in the adaptation of hunting saddle standards and one of the proposed standard (static loading) has already been voted on and adopted…

Standards for Safer Hunting | ASTM Standardization News

Treestands have been used by hunters for decades. These elevated platforms are secured to trees to elevate the hunter above the forest floor, generally out of view of their prey, to provide them with a better vantage point.

sn.astm.org

And ANSI usually adopts their recommendations

ASTM F3544-21 - Standard Test Method for Hunting Saddle Static Load Capacity

astmf354421-Standard Test Method for Hunting Saddle Static Load Capacity- 1.1This test method covers the determination of the static load capacity of hunting sa

webstore.ansi.org

 

[elk yinzer]

I know. Jokers! Money and lawyers ruin all that is good.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I know. Jokers! Money and lawyers ruin all that is good.

I don’t disagree. It is a game of money. But sometimes regulation can be a good thing especially when Joe schmoe (who knows nothing about actual work positioning harnesses) is selling his at home “saddles” on Facebook to guys that don’t know any better… Again I am simply offering information for guys so everyone has a chance to make educated decisions on which harness/saddle they use, when and why….
As far as your dislike for lawyers and money being the driving factor, well we both share that disgust

 

[tailgunner]

Oh..Ok cool ...i just give out my diy death traps

 

[BTaylor]

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but…. That “wannabe cartel” will be involved in the adaptation of hunting saddle standards and one of the proposed standard (static loading) has already been voted on and adopted…

Standards for Safer Hunting | ASTM Standardization News

Treestands have been used by hunters for decades. These elevated platforms are secured to trees to elevate the hunter above the forest floor, generally out of view of their prey, to provide them with a better vantage point.

sn.astm.org

And ANSI usually adopts their recommendations

ASTM F3544-21 - Standard Test Method for Hunting Saddle Static Load Capacity

astmf354421-Standard Test Method for Hunting Saddle Static Load Capacity- 1.1This test method covers the determination of the static load capacity of hunting sa

webstore.ansi.org

“I would say one of the biggest issues the industry faces is that the do-it-yourself idea is out of control. Literally, you have hunters out there who are taking full-body harnesses, cutting the shoulder straps and leg straps out of them, strapping up a rope to it, and calling it good.” From that first link. Someone should tell that jackwagon if it weren't for DIY folks, he wouldnt have the job he has. Does he think treestands just magically appeared from a rainbow clouded unicorn fart?

 

[BTaylor]

"Whereas static load measures standstill weight, dynamic load is reflected in a saddle’s capacity when in motion. Experienced hunters will admit that the sport typically involves hours of sitting punctuated by fleeting seconds of vigorous activity. The hunter needs to know that their hunting saddle will support its rated capacity in these moments."

Another real gem from the article. The industry folks involved with these standards should have helped homeboy with his article.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

“I would say one of the biggest issues the industry faces is that the do-it-yourself idea is out of control. Literally, you have hunters out there who are taking full-body harnesses, cutting the shoulder straps and leg straps out of them, strapping up a rope to it, and calling it good.” From that first link. Someone should tell that jackwagon if it weren't for DIY folks, he wouldnt have the job he has. Does he think treestands just magically appeared from a rainbow clouded unicorn fart?

The first commercial tree stand actually came from a guy who returned from WW2 where he noticed Japanese snipers tying wooden planks In the trees to use as an elevated shooting post. Obviously some native tribes hunted by climbing into trees but as far as anyone can tell, the “Andy Stand” was the first ever commercial tree stand. What’s cool is he’s from Jacksonville Florida (I know I know, another dang Florida man)

A Brief History on Treestands: How Japanese Snipers Helped Invent the Modern Deer Stand

In 1947, Andy Anders was standing precariously in a giant live oak tree on Blackbeard Island, Georgia. It was the first public bowhunt for whitetail deer on that famous barrier island surrounded by saltwater, just north of the town of Brunswick. Anders was one of only nine bowhunters...

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

"Whereas static load measures standstill weight, dynamic load is reflected in a saddle’s capacity when in motion. Experienced hunters will admit that the sport typically involves hours of sitting punctuated by fleeting seconds of vigorous activity. The hunter needs to know that their hunting saddle will support its rated capacity in these moments."

Another real gem from the article. The industry folks involved with these standards should have helped homeboy with his article.

Yea I noticed another article where they called a hunting saddle nylon webbing with a mesh seat and I thought that’s weird considering the first commercial mesh saddle wasn’t available until like 2018 but saddles have been around since the 1960’s…. I can’t imagine what person or company gave him the info he is using but I can attest that sometimes media people misquote when trying to paraphrase or shorten their articles.

The guy in the Florida Sportsman “quoted” me as saying “2 panel saddles are more comfortable” which I never said, especially given the fact that I am a single panel guy.
What I actually told him is that saddle comfort is very specific to each person’s preferences and body types. A lot of guys love 2 panels and swear they are more comfortable. Some guys really love minimalistic single panel saddles and then the kind of best of both world’s saddle is a pleated single panel which allows the panel to be widened similarly to a 2 panel, but while maintaining the simplistic nature and easier use of a single panel”…. He basically said yea let’s shorten that and make it say 2 panels are generally more comfortable….

 

[BTaylor]

The first commercial tree stand actually came from a guy who returned from WW2 where he noticed Japanese snipers tying wooden planks In the trees to use as an elevated shooting post. Obviously some native tribes hunted by climbing into trees but as far as anyone can tell, the “Andy Stand” was the first ever commercial tree stand. What’s cool is he’s from Jacksonville Florida (I know I know, another dang Florida man)

A Brief History on Treestands: How Japanese Snipers Helped Invent the Modern Deer Stand

In 1947, Andy Anders was standing precariously in a giant live oak tree on Blackbeard Island, Georgia. It was the first public bowhunt for whitetail deer on that famous barrier island surrounded by saltwater, just north of the town of Brunswick. Anders was one of only nine bowhunters...

www.outdoorlife.com

Yep. He saw it somewhere else, diy'd it, then some folks wanted one and an industry was born. Same for climber's and lock-on's.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Yep. He saw it somewhere else, diy'd it, then some folks wanted one and an industry was born. Same for climber's and lock-on's.

Correct. But imitation is not always the sincerest form of flattery. If you don’t understand why something has a certain shape, what material is best in what application, or why it is reinforced in certain areas, then you create a thing that looks similar to something else, but doesn’t perform similarly. In that instance DIY is creating an unsafe situation. While you don’t want to fall ever, lineman loops can and have become a portion of fall arrest while climbing. Because of this, the loops need to be attached to the life safety portions of the saddle. In my opinion, It’s extremely important to understand these things with life safety. A guy on Facebook is selling “saddles” he makes for $150 or less. His lineman loops are webbing sewn directly to cordura or whatever fabric he is using. The loops have no attachment to the main chassis of the saddle, nor the waist belt. Cordura rips around 350 to 500 lbs depending on the type and denier. I assume his machine isn’t capable of going through the multiplie layers of webbing or perhaps he just doesn’t understand what he’s making. If I am not mistaken, A certain company was doing the same when they started out back in 2018. After they did some real testing, they completely changed how the lineman loops were on the saddle… do you think that was coincidental or do you think they discovered that the lineman loops strength, wasn’t sufficient without attaching them either to the safety belt or to the chassis? I am willing to bet it’s the latter. So while I myself am a DIY guy and love seeing guys make their own stuff (yes even ol @tailgunner lol) I also want to see people get home safely because whether we like it or not, potential for shock loading or dynamic events will always be a part of our sport. We can minimize opportunities and maximize our safe practices but we can never fully remove the danger. For that reason, it’s important to have well built and safe gear.

 

[Dope on a Rope]

The good and bad news here is that when these standards are created, the big boys will swarm in (that’s the air cover they need from lawsuits) with cheap Chinese products, prices will drop 80%… and all the guys that helped build saddle hunting will wonder what happened to their businesses.

 

[GeoFish]

The good and bad news here is that when these standards are created, the big boys will swarm in (that’s the air cover they need from lawsuits) with cheap Chinese products, prices will drop 80%… and all the guys that helped build saddle hunting will wonder what happened to their businesses.

Cheep China saddles? That could never happen.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

The good and bad news here is that when these standards are created, the big boys will swarm in (that’s the air cover they need from lawsuits) with cheap Chinese products, prices will drop 80%… and all the guys that helped build saddle hunting will wonder what happened to their businesses.

It’s already happening to an extent. There are cheap knock offs on Amazon, new Chinese lines from more established saddle companies, Hawk and XOP are now making saddles that cost significantly less. And we’ve lost a couple of the quality companies already and only one of the “big 5 companies” that I know of, got one of the saddle designers that I respect.
I can tell you this, if it weren’t for AJ and I speaking at length and also for his work with Jerry (another guy I respect immensely) I do not think my saddle would ever be available again. I would be much happier just designing stuff for some other company to offer. They carry the costs and time associated with testing, and materials, labor and insurance. I get to use stuff that I believe in and have my time back for family, fishing and hunting… it’s a win win for me

 

[Dope on a Rope]

Cheep China saddles? That could never happen.

View attachment 100495

Exactly. Harnesses already have safety standards defined so the manufacturers feel safe from litigation. Those orgs exist to protect manufacturers not end users, and I’m sure Muddy et al are looking at saddle prices and wanting a piece of the action.

Quality won’t get better, but the floor/“minimum viable” standard will be set and that’s where everybody will be going.