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2019-The year of safety

Homebrew454

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Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
1,431
Location
Wisconsin
I think everyone should be constantly evaluating their safety. Whether it is while climbing, transitioning to platform, or getting set up in the dark.

I am done with the days of hanging treestands. I almost fell 2 times doing that and I will always be secured to the tree from now on.

I had 2 goals this year. Test out and try a modified 2 WE step climb with aider. It would require both tether and lineman's belts. If I feel comfortable with this method, I would perfect it. If it doesn't work, then I would go back to the knaider/Swaider with use of a tether.

The second goal was to look at possibly using a platform like the predator or diy version.

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bigjoe

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Jan 10, 2015
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2,618
Location
VA
@redsquirrel thank you for bringing up this subject again. Safety is near and dear to my heart.

I fell a number of years ago setting a tree stand. My error, from not making sure my linesman lanyard was connected properly.

I was a lucky one. I got broken up, but in the scheme of things very fortunate. I never want anyone else to go through it.

By the way it took a lot of reaching on my part, and encouragement from Saddle Hunter members to get my nerve up to get back in a tree.

I encourage everyone to always double check their gear and their set up. If something doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t. If your tired hunt from the ground or take a nap.

No deer is worth your life or being crippled.
 
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BFI

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Dec 13, 2017
Messages
62
ROPEMAN is not life support. that is the biggest mistake I see here.
 

weekender21

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Aug 19, 2018
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Hawaii and North Carolina
ROPEMAN is not life support. that is the biggest mistake I see here.
Nope, but it’s super easy to backup. A prusik attached to a lineman’s loop backs up the ropeman and bridge. With this setup it’s not possible to “fall” requiring a fall rated device. I personally would not use a ropeman on a tether if a fall was possible. Better off with a prusik in that scenario.




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Islandshooter

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Nov 19, 2018
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1,098
Location
Flagler Beach, FL
I would keep a lineman's belt as you will want that to attach to tree while you move tether over limbs, etc.... just a thought.
Oh yeah, always! I just meant coming down I can use the tension of my tether and the three points of contact to hold me to The tree, rather than the linesman's belt (which is girth hitched on)
 

Kurt

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Nov 1, 2018
Messages
2,329
Location
Massachusetts
Great post and reminder. I need to take safety to the next level next year. I felt safe mostly but using spurs had it's learning curve. I never had both gaff out but I did have one go a couple of time. I'm sure my lineman's harness would have caught me if both went but smacking into the tree wouldn't have been good. I also need to research on here the best way to deal with branches in trees. I used my tether most of the time in those scenarios. I'm wondering if a second lineman's belt might be the way to go?

Anyways, I'd encourage all the new guys to practice a bunch in the off season. And don't just practice on easy trees. Practice on crooked trees or trees with multiple limbs. I can tell you from experience, learning this mid season was not easy. I'm excited for the warmer weather to come so I can get better and better at my setups.
I've found that a 2 in 1 linesman is a good method for bypassing limbs. If your only passing limbs occasionally the tether might be the best way since you are already carrying it. However, if you find yourself needing to pass limbs a lot maybe the 2 in 1 would work better.
 

Islandshooter

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Joined
Nov 19, 2018
Messages
1,098
Location
Flagler Beach, FL
Saddle guys,
Since this is a safety thread, and we've got so many new users (myself included), how bout some technical guidelines listed here? And if this subject is in an older post, can we link it here?I know all this is out there in various threads, but can we collect it for ease of use?
Examples:
1. arborists and rock climbers recommend a 22 kilo newton minimum rating for fall arrest.
2. A fall is usually defined as...what we would possibly encounter is generally ???
3. Samson predator is rated at?
4. Rope man 1 or 2 (ascenders) are rated at?? KN? and should always be backed up with????
5,. 1/4" Amsteel has a rating of?
Or an acceptable bridge material would be? Would NOT be?
I have learned an enormous amount to make my hunting safer in the last few months on this site. Have watched Garrett, Greg, and Bobbys videos time and time again, and have justified every upgrade in my equipment to my wife because of y'all. I realize there are subtle differences in opinions concerning equipment, but there should be some hard and fast DO'S and DON'TS. Or at least some guiding principals. What say you?
 

Patriot38

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Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Messages
528
Location
Victoria MN
Nope, but it’s super easy to backup. A prusik attached to a lineman’s loop backs up the ropeman and bridge. With this setup it’s not possible to “fall” requiring a fall rated device. I personally would not use a ropeman on a tether if a fall was possible. Better off with a prusik in that scenario.




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This looks like a great setup. However there may be 1 thing wrong here. If the ropeman were to fail by by loosing grip and sliding to your prusik it would actually push the prusik down and off the end of your tether. Your stopping knot should prevent it from sliding off the end. A better idea would be to have your prusik ABOVE your ropeman. That way if your ropeman slides down or slices your rope you still have the prusik as a back up.

Can anyone else confirm that the best prusik back up is ABOVE the ropeman?
 
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Islandshooter

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Nov 19, 2018
Messages
1,098
Location
Flagler Beach, FL
This looks like a great setup. However there may be 1 thing wrong here. If the ropeman were to fail by by loosing grip and sliding to your prusik it would actually push the prusik down and off the end of your tether. Your stopping knot should prevent it from sliding off the end. A better idea would be to have your prusik ABOVE your ropeman. That way if your ropeman slides down or slices your rope you still have the prusik as a back up.

Can anyone else confirm that the best prusik back up is ABOVE the ropeman?
Pretty sure I've seen that here before, and it really only makes sense to do it that way. Think that's why my tether will have a friction hitch rather than a ropeman
 

Vtbow

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Mar 21, 2018
Messages
5,476
This looks like a great setup. However there may be 1 thing wrong here. If the ropeman were to fail by by loosing grip and sliding to your prusik it would actually push the prusik down and off the end of your tether. Your stopping knot should prevent it from sliding off the end. A better idea would be to have your prusik ABOVE your ropeman. That way if your ropeman slides down or slices your rope you still have the prusik as a back up.

Can anyone else confirm that the best prusik back up is ABOVE the ropeman?
Actually, a classic prusik is not releasable under tension, so it would not release it. Some friction hitches are. So it depends on what you are using. As far as a ropeman failing, I'd personally be more worried about it shredding the sheath of the rope than failing to grab...in which case a stopper or prusik below is useless...

Not to be facetous, but the ropeman debate has been beat to death pretty good here. Lots of threads to search and research to read. I've posted the testing/failure reports a couple if times I think
 
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weekender21

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Aug 19, 2018
Messages
1,493
Location
Hawaii and North Carolina
This looks like a great setup. However there may be 1 thing wrong here. If the ropeman were to fail by by loosing grip and sliding to your prusik it would actually push the prusik down and off the end of your tether. Your stopping knot should prevent it from sliding off the end. A better idea would be to have your prusik ABOVE your ropeman. That way if your ropeman slides down or slices your rope you still have the prusik as a back up.

Can anyone else confirm that the best prusik back up is ABOVE the ropeman?
I've run it both ways. The prusik above the ropeman only backs up the ropeman while the prusik below attached to the carabiner on a linemans loop backs up the ropeman and the bridge, that's the way I personally prefer to use it now.

Obviously you could do both but that's not necessary in my opinion. I've also seen some asking about using two tethers. I guess you can't be too safe but I have a lot of faith in my equipment, if a tether gets worn it gets replaced. I spent years using tree stand tethers that don't compare to the quality of the climbing gear that most saddle hunters use.
 
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Kurt

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Nov 1, 2018
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Massachusetts
Nope, but it’s super easy to backup. A prusik attached to a lineman’s loop backs up the ropeman and bridge. With this setup it’s not possible to “fall” requiring a fall rated device. I personally would not use a ropeman on a tether if a fall was possible. Better off with a prusik in that scenario.




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Looks like if the bridge, or the carabiner , or the ropeman let loose you'd be in for a fall to your right hip. You won't hit the ground but your going to roll to hard left. If your going to run a carabiner off the right hip you might as well use your linesman. Attach the prussic above the ropeman, run your linesman through it and attach to your left hip. If any thing fails your linesman and prussic will keep you upright. You carry the linesman anyway.
 

weekender21

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Hawaii and North Carolina
Looks like if the bridge, or the carabiner , or the ropeman let loose you'd be in for a fall to your right hip. You won't hit the ground but your going to roll to hard left. If your going to run a carabiner off the right hip you might as well use your linesman. Attach the prussic above the ropeman, run your linesman through it and attach to your left hip. If any thing fails your linesman and prussic will keep you upright. You carry the linesman anyway.
I’m not going to argue your point, rolling to one side is exactly what would happen. It prevents a fall which is my goal. Putting a prusik above your ropeman could put you in a scenario where you can’t free yourself. I've tried both but prefer the way I'm doing it now, to each his own.

I’m backing up a system I already believe isn’t going to fail and in a way that doesn’t hinder my hunt at all and only cost a few ounces.


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CarolinaDog

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Dec 3, 2018
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SC
IMG_4255.jpgATTACH]

So this is gonna be my first year in the saddle and I’m trying to get it all worked out. And be as safe as possible. I am very comfortable in the saddle and totally trust the equipment. But I did this at first to keep from having to store the LB. I wrapped the tag end of my tether around my lineman’s belt and left it connected. It holds the LB from sliding down the tree and it rotated through the knot as swung around the tree. Never coming tight. I’m really just asking if this is a safe practice? Would it be considered an adequate back up to the tether? When I take the knot from around the LB and let myself down to where I would catch, it’s not exactly a comfortable position but at least I’m still attached the tree. And if there is anything wrong with anything in the pic please let me know. Thanks in advance


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Attachments

Kurt

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Nov 1, 2018
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Location
Massachusetts
View attachment 9792ATTACH]

So this is gonna be my first year in the saddle and I’m trying to get it all worked out. And be as safe as possible. I am very comfortable in the saddle and totally trust the equipment. But I did this at first to keep from having to store the LB. I wrapped the tag end of my tether around my lineman’s belt and left it connected. It holds the LB from sliding down the tree and it rotated through the knot as swung around the tree. Never coming tight. I’m really just asking if this is a safe practice? Would it be considered an adequate back up to the tether? When I take the knot from around the LB and let myself down to where I would catch, it’s not exactly a comfortable position but at least I’m still attached the tree. And if there is anything wrong with anything in the pic please let me know. Thanks in advance


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Prussic off the tether, teather tail acting like a squeeze to the linesman. Looks good to me, for what it's worth. Always know where your going to end up, and how your going to get there when your main fails and your backup catches you. The point I'm trying to make is, when your linesman catches you, you'll swing in to the tree, upside right, but lower. Make sure your not going to reach your platform with your face. If you are or if it's close , capture your linesman at a higher angle off the trunk. Remember, you also have to be able to maneuver to shoot.
 

CarolinaDog

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Prussic off the tether, teather tail acting like a squeeze to the linesman. Looks good to me, for what it's worth. Always know where your going to end up, and how your going to get there when your main fails and your backup catches you. The point I'm trying to make is, when your linesman catches you, you'll swing in to the tree, upside right, but lower. Make sure your not going to reach your platform with your face. If you are or if it's close , capture your linesman at a higher angle off the trunk. Remember, you also have to be able to maneuver to shoot.

Thank you for mentioning being aware of hitting the platform. In a "perfect" situation you would just fall back into the LB and your feet wouldn't slip from the platform. Again "perfect situation". Seemed like about 1 foot of slack from the tether to the LB catching. When I lifted the LB to higher angle it didn't seem to pass through the loop as I rotated around the tree. I was able to maneuver into shooting position without the LB hanging up or pulling back pretty well. I just don't want end up upside or something crazy. Would be my luck...
 

weekender21

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Aug 19, 2018
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Hawaii and North Carolina
Great point about hitting your platform. For stick users this should also be a consideration. A linemans belt is designed to assist your climb and help prevent you from falling. When you do fall with a linemans belt on it can be a long ride down. Steps on climbing sticks can do serious damage.
 

Sodbuster3

New Member
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Jan 2, 2019
Messages
20
I am new as well to the saddle hunting part and had my first oh crap moment last hunt when I went to adjust ropeman height. Idiot me grabbed carabiner instead of rope and let tension of ropeman causing me to slide down tether. Fortunately when I let go of ropeman it caught me and I still had linesman belt on as well. One thing I started doing which I see some people not doing is tying a figure 8 at the end of tether. It acts as a stopper knot as well as allows you to clip in to it in case of a fall. Since I run a pretty short tether I would not fall very far before it caught me. Still trying to find a good secondary backup or a way to use linesman belt as a backup without it getting in way. Stay safe everyone!
 

Squirrels

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Oct 29, 2017
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My 2 cents on the subject: Don't be lazy in being safe and don't be lazy in doing research to find out what things are rated for and what they are not. I will also add that everyone should make safety priority one. With that said I wonder how some people ever decide to leave their house on a daily basis considering the coversations and arguments I see about certain "safety" related topics. I'm not sure how some enjoy hunting with the concerns they have over certain things. Just my 2 cents...carry on fellas.
 

g2outdoors

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Oct 3, 2014
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Savannah, GA
Great topic @redsquirrel

To me, the most important safety advice has nothing to do with gear at all. SLOW DOWN. Be deliberate in your movements. Remember it's not a race. Take your time and double check everything before you climb. Spending an extra 60 seconds on the ground going through your PCCs - Pre-Combat Checks if you're in the Army, Pre-Climb Checks if you're a saddle hunter - and your PCIs - Pre-Combat Inspections if you're in the Army, Pre-Climb Inspections if you're a saddle hunter. Taking 10 minutes to climb slowly and deliberately instead of 7 minutes in a rush will make a world of difference.

I'm one of the guys that likes to push the envelope of lightweight and low bulk. However, everything I do is tested extensively at ground level. I only leave terra firma once I'm confident. When I was learning to climb with spurs, I practiced at 2-5 feet for several weeks before I climbed higher.
 
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