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A fawn that stayed where it’s mama died

I live way out, in the middle of nothing, on 18 acres surrounded by crops and woods. It is common to have fawns born in July. Then our bow season starts early September. I just dont have it in me anymore to shoot does that early. OK I am getting soft, LOL.
I try to use our second muzzle loading season for doe harvest. Dident say it always worked that way.
 
I’ve noticed it when the fawn was unusually small. Does with oddly small or late born fawns seem to be alone and not part of a larger group. Don’t know if the doe was bred late because it didn’t hang with the herd or if it avoided the herd to protect their fawn from the larger fawns playing. Usually fawns that are part of a larger group stay with the group after being orphaned. Don’t feel guilty about shooting a doe. They all either have a fawn with them or in them.
 
Some of what you all are talking about is discussed on today's podcast from "Deer University". Episode 062 - Harvesting Does.

pca.st

Episode 062 – Harvesting Does - Deer University

This episode is devoted to doe harvest. Steve and Bronson spend a lot of time talking about which bucks to harvest, but in this episode, they discuss the need for doe harvest, when to harvest, and what does to select. ! For more information,...
pca.st pca.st
 
hokiehunter373 said:
Some of what you all are talking about is discussed on today's podcast from "Deer University". Episode 062 - Harvesting Does.

pca.st

Episode 062 – Harvesting Does - Deer University

This episode is devoted to doe harvest. Steve and Bronson spend a lot of time talking about which bucks to harvest, but in this episode, they discuss the need for doe harvest, when to harvest, and what does to select. ! For more information,...
pca.st pca.st
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Awesome, thanks!
 
Thanks for the info.
Not sure I buy all of the data on Episode 062. They are saying late born fawns are born late because of genetics. I am not buying that 100%. Low buck to doe ratio can also be a big factor.
 
What you're describing is exactly how it is meant to be and why we have seasons when we do. You shot the mom, but the fawn was old enough to survive on its own. Check. The fawn/yearling then continues to maintain that same area as its home range. Check.

There's nothing abnormal or sad about the situation. It follows the playbook to a T.
 
It's normal deer behavior, for the fawns to stay close to where the mother died. Feeling bad about it, is only labeling some sort of unnecessary guilt trip on yourself. :rolleyes: A mature doe is going to push her fawns away to get bred, during the rut. A breeding buck will kill any fawns that interfere with his breeding of the mature doe. Therefore, the reason why she pushes them away. It's nature's way. :cool:

The reason I say this is:
2 years ago, on opening day of our Archery Deer Season, I was walking on a 2 track path when I noticed a white belly ahead of me. As I checked her out, it was a mature doe with its' hips crushed/injured from a vehicle accident. This was approximately 175 yards from a State Route. I intended to remove her later, cause she died about 25 yards from my treestand. :( I went ahead and climbed my tree and waited for first light. Shortly after first light, her 2 fawns showed up and circled the area, bedded down and hung out for the next 3 1/2 hours. :rolleyes: As soon as they left, I got down, went to get my deer cart, came back and loaded her up. I hauled her about 200 yards to the north and dumped her in a creek. This kept varmints from the area and didn't interfere with deer travels from the rotting carcass. :)
I continued to see the fawns throughout the remaining months of the season.
 
On the cast they said after 3 months a fawn should be OK and find food. But does it learn every thing it could?? I dont know. But does the fawn know there are acorns in those hills come November or does it stay in its home range???
Screenshot_20220720-174837_Gallery.jpg
 
I think it’s fair to say you should take that fawn that’s lingering to one of those safe places for lost kids like a fire station or at least see if a local therapist or social worker is willing to go talk to it.
 
GeoFish said:
Thanks for the info.
Not sure I buy all of the data on Episode 062. They are saying late born fawns are born late because of genetics. I am not buying that 100%. Low buck to doe ratio can also be a big factor.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should listen again but I feel like they were saying there's a variety of reasons why fawns are born late. Regardless of the reason, being born late isn't helpful for the herd or the fawns chance at survival. That's how I took it at least.
 
Two things can be simultaneously true (1) it’s beneficial to take animals off of the landscape, and (2) it’s sad and fawns do feel some form of grief.

Was hunting the burbs fiveish years ago and there were two does with two sets of twins, in front of my stand. I took one of each of the sets of twins… no mom lost both fawns, no fawns lost their mom, I filled my doe requirement, two animals off the habitat, and then later filled the freezer with a buck. That day I just couldn’t bring myself to take one of the does.
 
neonomad said:
Two things can be simultaneously true (1) it’s beneficial to take animals off of the landscape, and (2) it’s sad and fawns do feel some form of grief.

Was hunting the burbs fiveish years ago and there were two does with two sets of twins, in front of my stand. I took one of each of the sets of twins… no mom lost both fawns, no fawns lost their mom, I filled my doe requirement, two animals off the habitat, and then later filled the freezer with a buck. That day I just couldn’t bring myself to take one of the does.
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nature is completely emotionless in regards to life and death. Predators kill whatever they can to survive. Predators are only interested in it’s prey’s biology insomuch as it relates to it being able to eat.
Humans however, like myself, are not. I do not kill without regard. I am also interested in the animal for the sake of being interested in it. Half of the reason I hunt is for food. The other half is because I love to learn about the forest and about deer.
This particular case was interesting to me because I was both sympathetic and curious as to why it was behaving as it was. But the other half of me will gladly eat her once she is old enough to have bred fawns herself. Whether or not I should or should not feel bad doesn’t make me any less interested in the “why” of her behavior.
 
jonkytron said:
nature is completely emotionless in regards to life and death. Predators kill whatever they can to survive. Predators are only interested in it’s prey’s biology insomuch as it relates to it being able to eat.
Humans however, like myself, are not. I do not kill without regard. I am also interested in the animal for the sake of being interested in it. Half of the reason I hunt is for food. The other half is because I love to learn about the forest and about deer.
This particular case was interesting to me because I was both sympathetic and curious as to why it was behaving as it was. But the other half of me will gladly eat her once she is old enough to have bred fawns herself. Whether or not I should or should not feel bad doesn’t make me any less interested in the “why” of her behavior.
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Perfectly put
 
hokiehunter373 said:
Maybe I should listen again but I feel like they were saying there's a variety of reasons why fawns are born late. Regardless of the reason, being born late isn't helpful for the herd or the fawns chance at survival. That's how I took it at least.
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In a previous pod cast from the same MSU they said in a typical rut cycle a buck can service 2 to 3 does. Factoring in the length of the rut, time finding a doe, in my unprofessional opinion I would say 2 does is average. So you would need 5 bucks for 10 does to have all does serviced during the first rut. I am all for balancing the herd and reducing deer numbers in a overpopulated herd. Just not sure the best way to do it? Have a special doe season in the spring???
 
GeoFish said:
In a previous pod cast from the same MSU they said in a typical rut cycle a buck can service 2 to 3 does. Factoring in the length of the rut, time finding a doe, in my unprofessional opinion I would say 2 does is average. So you would need 5 bucks for 10 does to have all does serviced during the first rut. I am all for balancing the herd and reducing deer numbers in a overpopulated herd. Just not sure the best way to do it? Have a special doe season in the spring???
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Derailing this thread but why do you need a special doe season to accomplish whatever numbers you think your property needs?
 
hokiehunter373 said:
Derailing this thread but why do you need a special doe season to accomplish whatever numbers you think your property needs?
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I should have said special gun season in January. I do not have a large track of private that I can manage a deer heard. Plus that's a rich guys game now. Talking about public and private. Our second muzzle loader season in December in Ky was designed to reduce doe numbers in select county's. Not a lot of people hunt it. So I dont think it is working. But a January doe gun season may get them off the couch?
 
GeoFish said:
I should have said special gun season in January. I do not have a large track of private that I can manage a deer heard. Plus that's a rich guys game now. Talking about public and private. Our second muzzle loader season in December in Ky was designed to reduce doe numbers in select county's. Not a lot of people hunt it. So I dont think it is working. But a January doe gun season may get them off the couch?
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In Mississippi, where the MSU deer lab is, it is basically open high powered rifle season from the second week in November until dark on January 31st so we have a "special" season, lol, and crossbows are legal from day one, so if guys can't shoot them with a rifle, they can snipe at them with a crossbow out to 100 yards. Our "primitive" season is a joke. You can use a centerfire rifle with a scope. It just has to be single shot and have a hammer. On private that only counts for the first 2-week season, then it is dealers' choice from then on out.
 
My hippie friend won't shoot does any more because of this.had a fawn naying behind him wile he was gutting its mom.my unit i live in is buck only.and they doe what they know,and she new her mom liked that spot for a reason.i feel bad harvesting any thing.but greatfull.
 
GeoFish said:
I should have said special gun season in January. I do not have a large track of private that I can manage a deer heard. Plus that's a rich guys game now. Talking about public and private. Our second muzzle loader season in December in Ky was designed to reduce doe numbers in select county's. Not a lot of people hunt it. So I dont think it is working. But a January doe gun season may get them off the couch?
Click to expand...

PA has archery season run into January as well as a flintlock muzzleloader. You get a lot of shed bucks shot as doe's.
 
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