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Activated Carbon Information

First post here, great site! I can’t wait to get into saddle hunting this fall!

I’ve been a beast member since the beginning. So you might have a good idea where this post is going.....
There are so many variables with our scent in the woods.Guys are thinking....”Don’t sweat, breath into the carbon mask, dont eat certain foods”. They are also spend all kinds of time- energy and money on products that claim to improve my odds at killing deer. I’m sorry guys but I’ll save my money, spend time scouting, studying thermals/wind currents of the properties I hunt and actually hunting down bucks instead of worrying about how my breath smells.
IMO- scent control is for the desperate hunter that is looking for answers regarding why he’s not seeing the deer he wants to see. Ik there are plenty of stories about downwind deer not reacting to hunter scent. Fyi- I have deer downwind of me too and I haven’t used anything scent free related for years.
But as others have said, if carbon gives you confidence, use carbon. Scouting and learning deer behavior gives me confidence so I’ll use that. It’s too bad that I have plenty to learn in that department, but I’m working on it. Thanks for reading. I’m excited to learn from all you guys about how to hunt from these saddles.
 
First post here, great site! I can’t wait to get into saddle hunting this fall!

I’ve been a beast member since the beginning. So you might have a good idea where this post is going.....
There are so many variables with our scent in the woods.Guys are thinking....”Don’t sweat, breath into the carbon mask, dont eat certain foods”. They are also spend all kinds of time- energy and money on products that claim to improve my odds at killing deer. I’m sorry guys but I’ll save my money, spend time scouting, studying thermals/wind currents of the properties I hunt and actually hunting down bucks instead of worrying about how my breath smells.
IMO- scent control is for the desperate hunter that is looking for answers regarding why he’s not seeing the deer he wants to see. Ik there are plenty of stories about downwind deer not reacting to hunter scent. Fyi- I have deer downwind of me too and I haven’t used anything scent free related for years.
But as others have said, if carbon gives you confidence, use carbon. Scouting and learning deer behavior gives me confidence so I’ll use that. It’s too bad that I have plenty to learn in that department, but I’m working on it. Thanks for reading. I’m excited to learn from all you guys about how to hunt from these saddles.

I don't own scentlok but I will say this, I would rather smell 99.9% not like a human than 100% reeking of human odor when being upwind of a deer. Maybe that deer thinks I'm miles away and decides to step into my shooting lane instead of turn the other way. I'll flip that coin and play it safe with scent control.
I don't think John is attributing all of his success solely to scentlok because he has whole DVD's and books attributed to deer behavior and scouting. He's a student of the game just like Infalt. I think that he preaches about being scent free because it's a piece of the puzzle to his success. Just like saddle hunting or relentless preseason scouting. I'm a fan of both of them and they each have their own style of hunting. I try to pick up things from each guy and make my own decisions. In saying all that I find the scent control 'debate' super fascinating.
 
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Any hunter that’s hunted the hills knows the wind constantly shifts. So sometimes hunting certain days you can’t “hunt the wind”. I try every time, but sometimes God does what he wants. So I’m going to do any thing I can to try to beat the whitetail’s nose. I guess I just hate to hear those big ol snorts. With that said, I tried ozone this year and I saw a difference. I just bought the quickstrike coveralls and am excited to try those too! Don’t let me down John, lol.
 
Idk guys....when talking public land success it’s hard to ignorehunters like Infalt and Andrea Dequisto and their flat out disbelief in the scent control thing. To the point they’re laughing about the energy, time and money people put in tho stuff has me believing that it’s a waste. John is no joke either, don’t get me wrong. But really I think that johns hunting high in trees has way more to do with his scent control claims than anything else. I’ve tried the scent control thing for years and I’ve seen next to zero results from it. In fact the less I shower and the more I stink the better my results are. I’m looking at the real world tests.... I have no idea why a dog that picked out a hunter in a tree that tried his best to be scent free tell you all you need to know about this. Especially considering that a deers nose is better and more sensitive than any blood hound and that a deer is betting his life that his nose is right. Whereas a dog is in the game for his owners praise and maybe a treat. I also do not get Johns argument about the helicopter dropping a hunter in a tree argument. A deer is going to look at a boot print and reason that the print is that of a human? Even though john claims that his boots and the bottom portion of his pants smell invisible? Maybe I’m not getting his point....but. I going to try to have this be my last post about scent control.
Btw- I read that john said he was banned from the beast. The fact is that john was acting like a spoiled five year old and that was why he wasn’t allowed to post on the beast, not because of his thoughts regarding scent elimination. There’s plenty of beast guys that practice scent control and they voice their opinions. NBD.
 
Just throwing this out there... Would a cheap Military surplus NBC suit work for scent control? It uses a charcoal lining. Opening the sealed package on stand? Apparently, they are a single use item for their intended purpose. But they might last for a few hunts. See attached link. This whole suit is $26US. BONUS!, if there is a nuke blast, you walk out like a boss. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DJUL5JI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Idk guys....when talking public land success it’s hard to ignorehunters like Infalt and Andrea Dequisto and their flat out disbelief in the scent control thing. To the point they’re laughing about the energy, time and money people put in tho stuff has me believing that it’s a waste. John is no joke either, don’t get me wrong. But really I think that johns hunting high in trees has way more to do with his scent control claims than anything else. I’ve tried the scent control thing for years and I’ve seen next to zero results from it. In fact the less I shower and the more I stink the better my results are. I’m looking at the real world tests.... I have no idea why a dog that picked out a hunter in a tree that tried his best to be scent free tell you all you need to know about this. Especially considering that a deers nose is better and more sensitive than any blood hound and that a deer is betting his life that his nose is right. Whereas a dog is in the game for his owners praise and maybe a treat. I also do not get Johns argument about the helicopter dropping a hunter in a tree argument. A deer is going to look at a boot print and reason that the print is that of a human? Even though john claims that his boots and the bottom portion of his pants smell invisible? Maybe I’m not getting his point....but. I going to try to have this be my last post about scent control.
Btw- I read that john said he was banned from the beast. The fact is that john was acting like a spoiled five year old and that was why he wasn’t allowed to post on the beast, not because of his thoughts regarding scent elimination. There’s plenty of beast guys that practice scent control and they voice their opinions. NBD.
We seem to have a scent control debate every year and it stinks. Lately it has turned into a Dan vs John comparison. I have respect for both as hunters. Just forget about the whole scent control question. Google top ten hunting states and Wisconsin pops up on almost every list. Michigan makes a showing on several worst 10 lists. Both states sell about the same number of licenses. All I can really say about that is that John has been really successful in one of the worst states in the country to hunt deer. I can’t help but want to hear what he has to say. I think he puts more emphasis on scent control than he should but it’s something he strongly believes in.
Dan has been extremely successful also. He has done it in the highest pipe and young state of all time. Wisconsin has registered almost twice as many as Illinois.
Both guys are excellent hunters and I’m sure Dan could likely go to Michigan and kill a good buck also. It’s just a few interesting points that often aren’t considered when comparing the two. When you look at the statistics it isn’t worth comparing the two.
They have both spent a considerable amount of time money and energy getting to where they are today.
 
I buy scentlok exclusively now, here are the facts:
-I only buy them on ridiculous sale, so I am not spending more than if I were to buy cabelas, and in many cases, Magellan(academy sports line) brand items
-The quality of most of the clothing is great
-I never buy from a store where grubby hands can fondle it, just online from scentlok
-They are quieter than the stuff I switched from
-I look for the features I want when I get something
-I do spend an additional 15 minutes sticking them in the dryer to recharge and then pack them into airtight bags in an airtight tote (second part I did with non scentlok clothes anyway), I am not counting the time in the dryer here or any rituals which are identical regardless of what I wear
-I have no idea if the scent control activated carbon stuff works, but it makes me feel better (almost like a bonus to my prayers) and I like the way it looks, even if the deer does not care what it looks like (I think sitka looks better though)
-I will rave about some of the clothes and how well they insulate despite being lighter and thinner than the older stuff I used
-Biggest, most awesomely true fact of all, I am fairly new to hunting and I have no baseline to compare effectivenes of scent lok because 90% of any issues I have is I am a noob that the deer all make bad jokes about. I wouldn't be surprised if deer across the country have ballads in honor of my inpetitude.

You can take all of that to the bank, except maybe the part about the ballads :)
 
We seem to have a scent control debate every year and it stinks. Lately it has turned into a Dan vs John comparison. I have respect for both as hunters. Just forget about the whole scent control question. Google top ten hunting states and Wisconsin pops up on almost every list. Michigan makes a showing on several worst 10 lists. Both states sell about the same number of licenses. All I can really say about that is that John has been really successful in one of the worst states in the country to hunt deer. I can’t help but want to hear what he has to say. I think he puts more emphasis on scent control than he should but it’s something he strongly believes in.
Dan has been extremely successful also. He has done it in the highest pipe and young state of all time. Wisconsin has registered almost twice as many as Illinois.
Both guys are excellent hunters and I’m sure Dan could likely go to Michigan and kill a good buck also. It’s just a few interesting points that often aren’t considered when comparing the two. When you look at the statistics it isn’t worth comparing the two.
They have both spent a considerable amount of time money and energy getting to where they are today.

Dans got it done all over the place..... in the UP, northern WI ( big woods) he hunts mostly in the SE part of the state- which receives waay more pressure than the other parts of the state. So the pressure they compete with I’m betting is very close. Ik cuz I hunt in SE WI and deal with a lot of the same crap a lot of guys, including John and Dan deal with. So it’s apples and apples in my book. Dans hunting style travels well cuz he’s hunting bucks in their bedrooms. This is because of the pressure he competes with. Idk but I doubt John is slogging through a mile or more of cattails and or swamp to get away from pressure. I’ll take what Dan does as more impressive. But Whatever. It doesn’t really matter.
 
Dans got it done all over the place..... in the UP, northern WI ( big woods) he hunts mostly in the SE part of the state- which receives waay more pressure than the other parts of the state. So the pressure they compete with I’m betting is very close. Ik cuz I hunt in SE WI and deal with a lot of the same crap a lot of guys, including John and Dan deal with. So it’s apples and apples in my book. Dans hunting style travels well cuz he’s hunting bucks in their bedrooms. This is because of the pressure he competes with. Idk but I doubt John is slogging through a mile or more of cattails and or swamp to get away from pressure. I’ll take what Dan does as more impressive. But Whatever. It doesn’t really matter.
There's all kinds of styles you can hunt big bucks. You could hunt them like rabbits like the Benoits do in remote big woods country in the NE or post up on their beds like Dan Infalt in swamps or hill country or do surgical scent free saddle hunting in high pressured areas like John. I don't think there's a 'right' way to do it. It's all very subjective. We can all agree that it's better than those wimps that pay to hunt deer farms for captive deer.
 
First off I think both Dan and John would walk crawl,boat in,wade,or do whatever it takes to find and kill big pressured white tails.Their both excellent deer hunters!So I think I listened to both of them and depending on situation hunt accordingly
 
John u are a living legend. I think I have seen every article,video, and podcast you were in. About a year ago I asked Tethryd if they had any "senior" staff as I was interested in how friendly saddle hunting would be for an older guy like me . First name they spit out was John Eberhart . They said you were the "Godfather of Saddle Hunting. Thank you for being so accessible. I use scent lok almost exclusively and my regimen is very much modeled after what you have shared on line and elsewhere. Your kill record speaks volumes about what you do. Thank you for everything you have done for us and in particular how you have affected the kind of hunting I will probably do for many years to come . God Bless .
 
I do believe a adivated Corbon suits work I don't mean to be gross but ate McDonald's and I was climbing in my climber and had a "bathroom" accident in my suit I couldn't smell so there's some proof it works lol
 
I also killed to 130 inch deer sense I started using the suits religious ly in past past five years
 
Here Is one my deer I got with a bow I haven't worried about the wind in a while but if I don't take proper care of my clothes or don't shower it only times I've gotten winded the past few years
 

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I don't buy into its effectiveness in a hunting application. That's my opinion. Having studied physics in college (one of my fav subjects so I took all the electives) some things jump out at me here which aren't entirely accurate with regards as to how activated carbon works and exactly what it is capable of capturing. Words like "particles", "atoms", "molecules" and "elements" have been used in place of each other (interchangeably) when they are in fact very different things.

A deer's sense of smell is capable of detecting odor when molecules are measured at just a few parts per billion. A single human breath exhales odor-causing molecules measuring somewhere in the neighborhood of 40,000 parts per million. That's 40,000,000 parts per billion with every breath you take.

Even assuming that drop down face mask JE mentions worked at a 100% absorption rate (which it wouldn't), at that saturation rate from the waste gasses known as your breath the trace amounts of activated carbon in the mask would be completely filled in no time at all. That mask is completely ineffective when stacked against the air pumps known as the human lungs. Additionally, the effectiveness of activated carbon is impacted by environmental factors like temperature and humidity. Expose it to a higher humidity environment like that from breath, sweat or even just the air in the environment on a day where humidity is above 60% and it will absorb the H20 molecules (water) and effectiveness will be reduced to - for all functional purposes - 0%.

My point really is - there is no practical way that any kind of clothing or fabric we wear hunting can contain enough activated carbon to be effective in hunting applications. I'm not disputing the effectiveness of activated carbon. I am disputing the effectiveness of it in specific applications such as in clothing and hunting applications.

Testing that was performed by or paid for by the same companies that sell it in their clothing will not convince me otherwise. I know what is happing at the molecular level and the physics just do not lie. Tests financed by companies with an agenda and conducted under ideal laboratory conditions that are favorable to the results they want are a far cry from the molecular physics in the environment seen in the deer woods.
 
redsquirrel

I put this on a different post but thought it should also be in the scent control section.

I'll be happy to start a match on the topic of activated carbon lined suits and their effectiveness. I hunted for 36 years without using a Scent Lok suit and 14 years with it and for any hunter to argue its effectiveness is not only a waste of their time, it shows they have done no research on the technology of activated carbon. Whenever there is a new scent adsorption, eliminating, or cover up technology brought into the hunting market, take my word for it, it was not developed by the hunting manufacturer that brought it to market.

The average R & D cost to a pharmaceutical company to bring a single FDA approved drug to market is around 2 billion dollars and most hunting companies are in the 5 to 70 million dollar a year annual gross bracket and simply can't afford scientists and or a sophisticated R & D department.

Any technology that actually works (and many in the hunting industry don't) for molecular adsorption, killing bacteria, molecular containment in the form of blocking, or an anti-microbial, was researched and developed for a much larger and far more sophisticated worldwide market industry than our little hunting industry. The hunting industry simply piggybacks on the technologies that were developed by other industries and governments worldwide.

Personally I never believe any advertisements from any manufacturers, any of the bloviating endorsements spewed by the so-called hunting experts that get paid to endorse them, or anything on any manufactures website, including Scent Lok's, when it comes to hi-tech scientific technology. Manufacturers and hunting personalities can and do lie and their is no hunting advertising police that hands out tickets for lying or false advertising.

This is where a little research by the hunter questioning any technology should come into play. All anyone has to do is simply Google the technology to see if it actually exists and if it does; how many other worldwide industries, hospitals, restaurants, governments, etc. use it, how it is used, and what does it do, and how effective is it when compared to similar technologies used for the same purposes.

Google activated carbon and you will find it is the most adsorbent substance know to man.

Scent Lok was sued for false advertising by a few Minnesota hunters that got winded and while extremely expensive to defend, it ended up being a blessing in disguise for any hunters willing to take off their blinders and look at what the outcome was. For a United States District Court, an independent lab at Rutgers University proved beyond a preponderance of a doubt that Scent Lok’s clothing worked as advertised.

The following paragraph was taken directly from Court’s final ruling.
-Expert scientific testing found that, using highly elevated odor concentrations that were “likely ten thousand fold greater than a human body could produce in the course of 24 hours”, Scent Lok carbon lined clothing blocked or adsorbed 96 to 99 plus percent of odor compounds, and essentially 100% of surrogate body odor compounds.

Activated carbon is used in literally thousands of industries worldwide for filtration, purification, storage, and molecular adsorption applications and when Googled here are a few of the hundreds of uses for it:

Gas purification, decaffeination, gold purification, metal extraction, drinking water purification, refrigerant gas adsorption, sewage treatment, every countries chemical warfare suits, by NASA in primary life support systems better known as space suits, gas masks, water softeners, paint respirators, filters in compressed air, volatile organic compound capture, dry cleaning processes, automobile filtration systems, gasoline dispensing operations, groundwater remediation, to adsorb radon for testing air quality, for oral ingestion in hospitals worldwide to treat overdose patients, in intensive care units to filter harmful drugs from the bloodstream of poisoned patients, to adsorb mercury emissions from coal power stations and medical incinerators, to filter vodka and whiskey of organic impurities, and by the US Dept. of Energy to store natural and hydrogen gas.

Just as; NASA, auto industry, U. S. Dept. of Energy, hospitals, and every Dept. of Defense in the world didn’t pull activated carbon out of a hat and say, hey let’s use this stuff, neither did Scent Lok.

Microscopic evaluations show that if all the surface areas of the primary, secondary, tertiary pores, and exterior surface of each particle of activated carbon were flattened and laid on a flat surface:
-A tablespoon of activated coconut carbon particles (activated carbon Scent Lok uses) has a surface area of just over 3 ½ football fields.
-And one pound of activated carbon particles (a small butter tub) has a surface area equal to that of approximately 100 acres (more than a half mile in length and a quarter mile in width).

Here's the kicker and the main reason many hunters say Scent Lok's activated carbon lined suits don't work. A suit is not magic and the many hunters that owned them and got winded, had no clue how to properly care for them and what to do in conjunction with them to have a total scent free regiment.

Carbon lined clothing requires very specific care and absolutely must be used in conjunction with a carbon lined headcover with drop down facemask, carbon gloves, knee high rubber or neoprene boots, and a frequently washed fanny or backpack.

Some ifs: If you; exclusively use scent eliminating sprays, wear face paint to look cool like the TV and video so-called experts do, wear a favorite logo ball cap like the TV and video guys do, don’t regularly wash your pack in scent free detergent and store it in an air tight container, don’t wear clean rubber or neoprene knee high boots, or if you wear regular gloves when ascending trees, you should definitely “hunt the wind” because your scent regiment is not perfect and perfect is a must when hunting mature whitetails.

Of course there will always be that guy that says, hey I killed a lot of deer without a scent free regiment. Cavemen also killed dinosaurs with spears and Indians killed with stick bows and wooden arrows. I also killed well over 100 deer with my bow before activated carbon technology was introduced into the hunting marketplace, but I have always been willing to check out anything new and take full advantage of it if it works and I feel totally naked in the woods with a properly cared for Scent Lok suit.

My willingness to look at every new hunting item is also what led me to use an Anderson Treesling in 1981. At first I hated it because it was different and uncomfortable, but I saw the huge advantages it would bring me if I altered it for my personal use. I have been using a harness system ever since and think conventional stands of any type are archaic and outdated.

If anyone would like me to forward them a guide in how to properly care for activated carbon lined clothing, go to my website at: www.deer-john.net and e-mail me your request.
Hi John,
Many years ago at the deer spectacular a guy ran out of his booth and place a jar under my nose...then he took off the fabric from the top of the jar and it was the strongest smelling perfume you could imagine. Long story short My buddys all laughed at me when I bought a green pajama suit and bag for $189's. That was SL first year in business I believe and my belief in a activated carbon
May The Magic of The Whitetail Forever Enrich Your
 
Too expensive and a boat load of hassle. I’m not anal enough to care for scentlok the way it needs to be cared for in order to work properly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Testing that was performed by or paid for by the same companies that sell it in their clothing will not convince me otherwise. I know what is happing at the molecular level and the physics just do not lie. Tests financed by companies with an agenda and conducted under ideal laboratory conditions that are favorable to the results they want are a far cry from the molecular physics in the environment seen in the deer woods.

The only testing that I would put any stock in is the testing done by Rutgers University. Magazine editors and wood box tests don't really move the needle for me. My understanding is the Rutgers testing was court ordered independent testing stemming from the lawsuit and wasn't paid for by scent-lok. The full results used to be, and I assume still are, available online with a little searching. As someone with an understanding of the science involved you may want to read the actual study and results before coming to a conclusion. They may or may not change your opinion and I don't care who does or doesn't use the products, just thought you might like to be more informed.
 
The only testing that I would put any stock in is the testing done by Rutgers University. Magazine editors and wood box tests don't really move the needle for me. My understanding is the Rutgers testing was court ordered independent testing stemming from the lawsuit and wasn't paid for by scent-lok. The full results used to be, and I assume still are, available online with a little searching. As someone with an understanding of the science involved you may want to read the actual study and results before coming to a conclusion. They may or may not change your opinion and I don't care who does or doesn't use the products, just thought you might like to be more informed.

Your understanding of the case is not correct. Here is where you're mistaken.

A court can not order a third party not involved in the case to do anything. Scentlok went to Rutgers and wanted them to do the testing to help their case. Scentlok wanted the testing conducted in a way that was favorable to the outcome they wanted. Rutgers was willing to play ball in exchange for cash. This is why Rutgers was a witness for the defendants in the case. This is pretty common in lawsuits by the way. "Expert witnesses" are used all the time. Especially by big money corporations with a lot of resources. Additionally - ScentLok wasn't the only defendant in the case. Cabelas, Bass Pro, Browning, Gander Mountain were also named as defendants as they were using ScentLoks marketing claims. So lots of big money here. The point being there was nothing independent about the testing and it wasn't court ordered. It was submitted as evidence by the defendants during discovery. That after they went shopping to find someone willing to do the testing under the conditions they wanted. They're allowed to do that by the way. It's all perfectly acceptable under the law. The plaintiffs are free to do the same and then the court decides. They just didn't have the money.

Scentlok knew this, or their lawyers did anyway and so consequently this legal tactic ensured that only the Rutgers "testing" would be what the court would see. No expert witnesses for the plaintiffs were called to submit their own testing or even question the testing methodology used by Rutgers. They simply didn't have the money to do so.

ScentLok did not emerge from the case vindicated either. The court found that some of their advertising, like how drying the garment in the dryer on high made the carbon "like new" again were BS. Scentlok subsequently changed the verbiage they use to describe the process as "reactivation". It's lawyer speak.

Scentlok was ordered by the court to not use the phrases “elimination” or “odor eliminating” or “scent eliminating” alone or in conjunction with words or graphics that say or depict “scent-free,” “odor free,” “100%,” “all” or “every trace” or “every bit” of odor as removed by the clothing.

Now Scentlok uses the partial and far from independent "testing" they paid for as a marketing tool and sadly - it's working.

This is how justice works in America most of the time, unfortunately. Victory belongs to those with the biggest pocketbook. Not those why may have been right.

You can read the court dockets here. If you want to become more well informed. Unfortunetly the defendents had some of the evidence, documents and dockets sealed. So we'll never get 100% of the story.... I wonder why..

https://www.docketbird.com/court-cases/Pickering-v-Als-Enterprises-Inc-et-al/flnd-1:2009-cv-00087
 
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