Advantages of saddle hunting over hunting from any conventional stand

[John Eberhart]

Part 1

1. Unlike conventional stands which tens of thousands of hunter have fallen from, with a saddle you are 100% of the time tethered to the tree. When properly hunting from a saddle you can’t fall and saddles are the safest systems for hunting from trees.



2. Saddles are made of fabric so there is no noise associated with; pulling up stands, setting them up, going up a tree with a climber stand, or foot movements on metal platforms with snow or ice build-up on them.



3. Because saddles are made of fabric there are no metal bolts or joints like there are on conventional stands so possible creaking noises at crunch time when you may have to shift your weight for a shot are a thing of the past.



4. Extremely lightweight and easily fits in any backpack with other layering garments and hunting accessories.



5. Unlike conventional stands with limited to zero shooting mobility to the back side of trees larger than 16 inch diameters, with a saddle the hunter has the option of having 360 degree shooting mobility around any tree so there are no missed opportunities (during the rut phases you can’t bank on where an opportunity at a buck may occur and a saddle alleviates that issue)



6. The hunter can and should keep the tree trunk between them and the deer they want to shoot until the opportune time and the mobility of the saddle allows that option. This huge advantage eliminates the hunter’s body from hanging out to the side of the tree and visually getting picked as it frequently does with conventional stands.



7. Large and small diameter trees are now open to hunting whereas with conventional hang-on’s and climber stands, trees must be a specific size to accommodate them. I’ve taken bucks from trees that were 4 inches in diameter and from trees that were over 30 inches in diameter at the locations in the trees I was set-up at.



8. Unlike with a climber, the tree doesn’t have to be devoid of branches in order to hunt it. Branches and crotches can actually be used as steps and additional concealment cover.



9. Trees leaning up to 15 degrees can be hunted comfortably from.

10. Unlike standing and shooting from a conventional stand with only your 2 feet on a platform, when shooting from a saddle you always have 3 solid points of body contact with both feet being on steps or a “Predator” platform and your upper body weight being securely supported by the seat. Having 3 points of body contact gives you a much more solid and comfortable base when shooting which will equate to better accuracy.

11. You can have as many pre-set locations prepared as desired while owning only one saddle to hunt all of them. Having many pre-set location options and rotating them increases the element of surprise and decreases the human intrusions and contamination of each site. Because your saddle is always with you, you simply hunt the locations when and where the sign is hot.

12. With conventional stands you need one for each pre-set location otherwise you would have to carry a heavy and cumbersome stand along with your pack and bow to each location and then make the noise of setting it up. Just imagine having to purchase conventional stands for 20 or more locations, the cost would be astronomical and even then the hunter wouldn’t have all the other many advantages a saddle hunter would have.

13. You never have to worry about stolen stands because the saddle is always with you. On public lands and in heavily pressured areas tree stand theft is a major issue.

14. Other hunters can’t hunt your location because your saddle is always with you.

15. Saddles are extremely comfortable to sit in on all day hunts. On average nearly 60% of record book bucks from every state are taken during the short rut phase periods and being able to sit all day during those time frames is a huge advantage. Saddles have tether drape adjustments so you can adjust your seating position within seconds at any time adding to the overall comfort for long sits.

16. When hunting from a Mantis or Kestrel saddle your upper body is not constricted within a shoulder style safety harness or vest that’s tethered to the tree as when safely hunting from all conventional stands. While hunting in a tethered saddle your upper body from the waist up is non-encumbered with straps and you can easily add or remove upper body layering garments to allow for changing weather conditions within moments.

17. Saddles can be used as a hands free safety harness system for preparing new locations.

18. Saddles are perfect for freelance hunting as you already have the saddle in your backpack and can carry a fanny pack loaded with steps below your backpack for mobility purposes. When freelancing in heavily pressured areas, hunters don’t have the luxury of walking down 2 tracks or through open timber as seen on TV and in videos, they have to freelance scout and oftentimes transition through cover where toting cumbersome stands and sticks would be difficult and not very feasible.

Conventional hang-on stand users would also need to carry a climbing harness for placing sticks or steps and the stand with 2 free hands. As mentioned earlier a saddle also doubles as a climbing harness.

 

[John Eberhart]

Part 2

19. With the versatility of the saddle for differing tree diameters and leans the saddle is perfect for finding a good location and making a tree within shooting distance of all the sign at it, work. No more having to set up conventional stands in trees away from the destination site because there are no suitable trees at the site. Setting up away from a destination location such as a mast or fruit tree or scrape area for example, with a conventional stand will put some of the runways feeding the actual destination site and sign at it out of range and possibly out of sight.

20. A major advantage of using a saddle is that at destination locations such as preferred fruit and mast trees and or a scrape area where there may be multiple deer standing and lingering for several to 20 minutes at a time, being tethered on the opposite side of the tree trunk from the destination site will be a huge advantage because you won’t get visually picked by the deer looking around and listening while eating. With a conventional stand you have no option but to set up somewhat on the side of the tree because you can’t shoot to the opposite side of the tree from where you put your stand. Having to set up on the side of the tree makes your body silhouette visible to the deer at the destination location and greatly increases the likelihood of getting visually picked.

The many advantages of hunting from a saddle will increase your kill opportunities.

Saddle hunting is not another me to hunting concept and it flies against the grain of conventional tree stand manufacturers that want to sell hunters a stand for every one of their hunting locations. Saddle hunting also flies against TMA (Treestand Manufacturers Association) as they are controlled by tree stand manufacturers.

To sum it up, if you took 2 hunters of equal skill level and had them both hunt or freelance on the same property for 5 seasons and one used a saddle and the other used whatever conventional stands they wanted, the hunter using a saddle would definitely outperform the stand hunter because he would have so many advantages.

These are my personal hunting qualifications for offering instruction on saddle hunting and the many advantages it has over hunting from any conventional style stands.

-I doubt anyone in the country has spent more hours perched in a saddle style harness system when hunting than me. I’ve exclusively hunted from a saddle since 1981 when hunting from trees, that’s 37 seasons of saddle hunting.

-Have 31 bucks listed in the Michigan record book and they were taken from 19 different properties in 10 different counties and in 1981 took a state record buck. I’ve also taken 19 P&Y bucks from 13 different properties on my 22 out of state bowhunts in 5 different states.

-What separates my accomplishment of having an accumulative total of 50 record book bucks (2 with a muzzleloader and 48 with a bow) from 32 different properties from any other hunter in the country is that they have all came from either public lands or knock-on-doors for free permission properties. I’ve never owned or leased property or hunted on a relative’s property or paid a dime to hunt anywhere, and never will.

-Of those 50 record class bucks 44 of them were taken with a bow from a saddle style harness and I attribute the taking of more than half of those bucks to the many aforementioned advantages of hunting from a saddle. There is absolutely no way I would have taken those 44 record bucks from any type of conventional stands due to their limitations.

 

[John Eberhart]

While trees such as the huge cottonwood pictured above are the exception, they can be hunted using a saddle whereas you would never even consider hunting this tree with a climber or hang-on due to its large diameter and extreme lean. That's me in the tree and this cottonwood was the only tree I felt was suitable for adequate height and cover and it was right next to a primary scrape area. I rattled in and killed a book buck from it the very first time I hunted it and the lean actually made the tree easy to prep and climb (like going up a ladder), and it was quite comfortable because I could easily lean forward when hunting and rest my head on the lead strap.

The tree pictured below is a more common set-up in a white oak and if you have the option of picking a tree with some other branches around you for additional cover, by all means use it.

 

[John Eberhart]

Here is a better picture of the cottonwood from ground level and yes it was on private property and I raped the other trees around it to have a shot to the scrapes.

 

[vabwhntr]

I agree with most of this. I am still waiting on my saddle and only that will give me a definite answer but I disagree with a few things. First of all if you are properly harnessed with any stand (ladder, lock on, climber) they are all just as safe as a saddle and maybe safer if you really play the "what if" game. As for the creaking, popping, noisy stands go there are a lot of people complaining that the predator does this also. I am not a hater just a realist. I think saddles have their place and I cant wait to try my mantis out. In the end I think I would be able to sell my lock ons and climber and have no regrets. However I wont because I like options and love hunting gear. My only concern is facing the tree and how I will be able to mentally handle that because its going to be a change.

 

[Peterk1234]

I have to say that pic of you in the cottonwood is spectacular. That thing is massive (or you just put a a GI Joe doll on regular tree). Pete

 

[BRAVEHEART]

I agree with most of this. I am still waiting on my saddle and only that will give me a definite answer but I disagree with a few things. First of all if you are properly harnessed with any stand (ladder, lock on, climber) they are all just as safe as a saddle and maybe safer if you really play the "what if" game. As for the creaking, popping, noisy stands go there are a lot of people complaining that the predator does this also. I am not a hater just a realist. I think saddles have their place and I cant wait to try my mantis out. In the end I think I would be able to sell my lock ons and climber and have no regrets. However I wont because I like options and love hunting gear. My only concern is facing the tree and how I will be able to mentally handle that because its going to be a change.

While waiting you get your saddle, check out this video from @Boudreaux

it may help you understand the difference between a saddle harness and a conventional safety harness.
Having hunted both styles, I can say that a saddle harness is always under tension holding your body weight especially while using a step-type platform, while a conventional harnesses is not. On an conventional tree stand, even if you have your safety harness tight while seated, as soon as you stand up you have introduced approx. 2' or more of slack that could be dangerous. Consider DIY platforms, or the new Predator-style platform, they will allow you to stand on them and spin 180* to make "weak side" shots and still have very little slack in your system. Check out this video from @g2outdoors

A conventional safety harness will arrest your fall causing a "shock load" and possibly cause severe injuries including "suspension trauma", which could be fatal if you were not able to self-rescue in a short time frame. A saddle harness on the other hand, prevents a fall from happening in the first place.
I hope this helps clear up some safety considerations for anybody considering saddle hunting.
Stay safe and good luck hunting.

 

[Vthntr]

Everything John mentions above is why I decided to switch to a saddle this year. It was actually 2 podcasts I heard John on that got my gears grinding and hopefully once I have my mantis in hand and can hunt with it all will be confirmed. Thank you for your input.

 

[3 Blade Rage]

Great write up John! What is your preferd climbing method?

 

[Jefferson10940]

Another advantage is that we have this forum with guys like you who contribute solid worth while content.


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[Nutterbuster]

I'm not naysaying, but I'm curious where that "tens of thousands" number came from regarding treestamd accidents. That seems like a high number. I

 

[River Hunter]

I'm not naysaying, but I'm curious where that "tens of thousands" number came from regarding treestamd accidents. That seems like a high number. I

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/nyregion/for-hunters-in-the-woods-a-quiet-killer-tree-stands.html

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[elk yinzer]

Here is the real advantage: Less bulk to carry.

Some myths above:

Treestands can be absolutely safe and 100% tethered. Fall casualties are user error and Darwinism. Both of which I also see exhibited by saddle hunters from time to time.

Treestands aren't loud if you know what you are doing. They just aren't man.

You can indeed shoot 360 degrees from a treestand. I don't know where this one comes from. You just lean out a little and shoot.

Keeping the trunk of the tree between you and the deer is utterly pointless in 99 out of 100 scenarios and probably counterproductive in an quarter of those. Deer see movement, period.

Rings of steps, I've tried it, uncomfortable as all heck and leads to a ton of unecessary movement, at least at first. The hybrid leaning style and the advent of these mini-treestand platforms, a la the Predator, have made saddles more comfortable, accessible, relatable, and effective.

I have hunted 20 years and never pre-set or left a stand overnight one single time. 100% mobile from age 12. If a grown man cannot carry a 15 pound stand hit the gym. And I can assure you, you can still get navigate the most brutal security cover in the dark if you go slow and careful. But again the bulk reduction here is indeed the chief advantage.

Just the way I see it. Not trying to be confrontational. I love that I discovered saddle hunting and glad to be here soaking it all in. I am all juiced up for my first full season in a saddle with a bunch of snazzy new gear. Hyberbole and overstatement only delegitimizes the product.

 

[Nutterbuster]

@elk yinzer I'm kind of with you on this one. Used properly, a climber is just as safe as a saddle. The saddle just kind of makes it easier for us to do what everybody should be doing in the first place. And, while unlikely, in the event if tether failure most guys (myself included) have ZERO backup. A treestand and harness system incorporates a little redundancy. A single component's failure won't kill you. Unless it's the tree falling over.

I've also never had an issue with shooting deer behind me. I will say that a saddle with a ring of steps does make it easier to completely change which way you're facing. Just loosen the tether, rotate around the tree, and cinch it back down. If you're using a platform though, it's about the same as a climber that puts you facing the tree.

My hand climber was also very quiet, after putting a lot of time into getting familiar with it and customizing it to fit my needs. Sound familiar, anybody? It was infinitely less fiddly than a saddle system, for sure.

The biggest advantage for me (public land swamp hunter in the terribly hot and humid deep south) is the fact that I can fit my saddle system in a small backpack and traverse knee deep mud and brush so thick that if you fell you'd never hit the ground. While I could hunt stuff like that with a climber, I usually found myself slacking off after a couple of hunts and justifying easier locations. It's harder to make excuses when you're just carrying an 8lb backpack.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for John E.The man's a killer. I don't really think anything he says about saddle hunting is a lie. But, as a marketing guy, I know hyperbole when I see it. I think it's kind of like nuclear weapons in the sense that everybody wishes they didn't exist, but nobody wants to be the first to stop using it!

Simple, definitive statements spoken with conviction sell products. But in real life there are many shades of grey. "It depends" is my motto, but that don't pay the bills. When I worked in an archery shop, it was way easier to look a customer who was shopping for broadheads dead in the eyes and say things like, "I've killed a truckload of deer with these Spitfires. Every single one was a complete pass through and fully deployed. These are what you want," than it was to discuss the details.

I just want new guys reading this to realize that buying a saddle and some ScentLok won't make you John E. When I first read his books, the big takeaway for me was how hard he hunted, how much time he spent scouting, and how he always had a plan and a rationale for why he was hunting a spot. I think that has way more to do with his success than a saddle. If you're a mediocre hunter now who kills a couple of deer every year and you buy a saddle, you're gonna be a mediocre hunter who kills a couple of deer every year in a saddle.

@River Hunter, thanks for the link. That's a good read for anybody climbing. Short of driving to the woods, I think climbing is the riskiest part of hunting. Wouldn't have figured that many people hurt themselves each year though. Eye-opening for sure. I'll say this, if saddle-hunting grows mainstream, fools will find a way to kill themselves with a saddle.

There's somebody out there who has no problem dangling on a tether made of 550 cord, I know it!!

 

[kyler1945]

And, while unlikely, in the event if tether failure most guys (myself included) have ZERO backup. A treestand and harness system incorporates a little redundancy. A single component's failure won't kill you. Unless it's the tree falling over.

If you're a mediocre hunter now who kills a couple of deer every year and you buy a saddle, you're gonna be a mediocre hunter who kills a couple of deer every year in a saddle.
[/QUOTE]

Just want to add my pennies here.

I keep going around in circles on how to make the tether redundant. It's probably has the lowest likelihood of life threatening failure while hanging in the tree of anything we do climbing/hunting out of trees, but it's still a single point of failure. I have a feeling I'll be using a backup made out of amsteel at some point this season and going forward.

Pareto's principle applies here - a small percentage of the hunters kill the majority of the critters. Changing the tools they use to hunt may shuffle things up slightly, but it all settles out, and the hierarchy remains intact.

A third thing to keep in mind - tree slings have been around for 40 years. The only difference is the internet being involved to a large degree in spreading the information. But this isn't new. I imagine based on the way things are going, it won't be much different than the first time around. A small small percentage of hunters will be willing to invest the effort to making a change to the new saddle gear available. An even smaller percentage will stick with it. Within that will be a majority that was already doing it anyway with older gear. And personally, seeing the benefits of all my crap fitting in a backpack and how that changes the game for me, I hope I'm right and it remains a small group. At no offense to the folks who are out to make a living selling us gear - I just like having an edge. Personally, I think the barriers of entry are simply too large for most folks, and this is and will remain a niche hunting style. I took the same info from Mr. John - he's an elite hunter for a lot of reasons that don't involve a saddle.

 

[predatorhunter]

35 year Treestand hunter and 1st year saddle hunter. I would say so far the biggest two advantages are:
1) Weight and bulk. Tree stands on your back seem to hang on everything when in thick cover.
2) In a saddle I feel much safer transitioning from a sitting/knees bent to a standing/leaning position. Not always "looking" for the edge of the treestand platform. Let's me focus more on the task at hand, killing!

 

[Ontariofarmer]

[QUOTE="elk yinzer, post: 133158,

Keeping the trunk of the tree between you and the deer is utterly pointless in 99 out of 100 scenarios and probably counterproductive in an quarter of those. Deer see movement, period.

Rings of steps, I've tried it, uncomfortable as all heck and leads to a ton of unecessary movement, at least at first. The hybrid leaning style and the advent of these mini-treestand platforms, a la the Predator, have made saddles more comfortable, accessible, relatable, and effective.

.[/QUOTE]

For a sitter a ring of steps is not uncomfortable

And I have killed deer at 15 yards using the tree for cover. Try it It works

I think red squirrel would agree


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[redsquirrel]

Here is the real advantage: Less bulk to carry.

Some myths above:

Treestands can be absolutely safe and 100% tethered. Fall casualties are user error and Darwinism. Both of which I also see exhibited by saddle hunters from time to time. I agree. I think most treestand related falls are due to people doing stupid things that they shouldn't. I think you will see more saddle related accidents as more people start saddle hunting because there will be more people who pay less attention to their gear.

Treestands aren't loud if you know what you are doing. They just aren't man. Can you do things to quiet down a treestand? Sure. But I would disagree with you that carrying 5 pounds of mostly cloth through the woods is equal to carrying something that is bigger, bulkier and made of metal.

You can indeed shoot 360 degrees from a treestand. I don't know where this one comes from. You just lean out a little and shoot. This is very tree dependent. On a small tree, sure. On a big tree you are not shooting directly behind you. On a big tree I can move to the side of the tree on my steps and shoot in that blind spot. I'm also not leaning out off of a treestand, I think that is a recipe for a fall.

Keeping the trunk of the tree between you and the deer is utterly pointless in 99 out of 100 scenarios and probably counterproductive in an quarter of those. Deer see movement, period. This is the point I disagree with you on the most. First, having that trunk between you and the deer breaks up your silhouette. Second, if you are hunting a decent size tree you can definitely move behind the tree without the deer seeing you. Then are amazing animals but they can't see through a tree. Both of the does I shot last week I was hanging in a decent sized tree and I was able to draw my bow behind the tree where they couldn't see so that I was already in position when they walked out and into my shooting lane.

Rings of steps, I've tried it, uncomfortable as all heck and leads to a ton of unecessary movement, at least at first. The hybrid leaning style and the advent of these mini-treestand platforms, a la the Predator, have made saddles more comfortable, accessible, relatable, and effective. Like @Ontariofarmer said, if you sit in your saddle the ring of steps is a much different system. You mostly use the steps to pivot around the tree as needed.

I have hunted 20 years and never pre-set or left a stand overnight one single time. 100% mobile from age 12. If a grown man cannot carry a 15 pound stand hit the gym. And I can assure you, you can still get navigate the most brutal security cover in the dark if you go slow and careful. But again the bulk reduction here is indeed the chief advantage. You may want to rethink this. We have had many people show up on this site in the past year with disabilities. They are looking for a way that enables them to hunt or continue to hunt after an accident. We also have women on this site and many guys looking for systems for their children. Not everyone is a healthy young man.

Just the way I see it. Not trying to be confrontational. I love that I discovered saddle hunting and glad to be here soaking it all in. I am all juiced up for my first full season in a saddle with a bunch of snazzy new gear. Hyberbole and overstatement only delegitimizes the product.
You say you're not trying to be confrontational but you're on a saddle hunting forum and you're always the first one to bash saddle hunting. I just don't understand what you have against it?
John Eberhart is passionate about saddle hunting. He has been doing it for 40 years and been pushing it in his books and magazines for at least over 20. You can call it hyberbole and overstatement if you want but he is really just passionate about it and has been trying for years to get other hunters to see the advantages of this style. I guarantee to you that John honestly feels strongly about every bullet point he makes.

 

[elk yinzer]

Haha I can tell I really get your blood pressure up @redsquirrel .

I need to come clean. I am a mole sent here by the TMA.

I don't mean to upset you personally. I like you. I appreciate what you do here. I love my saddles.

I just think overstating the benefits is counterproductive. It's even condescending to a degree. That's probably why this one triggered me. Honesty sells. The overstatement detracts from the simple truths.

I was kidding about the TMA thing, obviously. Maybe.

 

[elk yinzer]

That cottonwood picture is cool as all get out by the way. Saddle or boat anchor, I don't think I would ever have the imagination, desire, or climbing equipment to make that work.