• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Amsteel as attachment method -- Safety info?

TNbowhunter

TNbowhunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
1,023
Location
Middle Tennessee
Hey y'all, I'm looking to switch my climbing stick (Hawk Heliums) attachment method from stock straps/OCB buckles to Amsteel to cut down on the noise and fiddle factor. However, I don't feel like I know enough about safety info on Amsteel to make an informed decision. Here are a few of the questions I have:
  1. I see tons of folks using 7/64", but I wonder how folks came to the conclusion that this smaller diameter is safe/preferable over something like 1/4", which gives me more peace of mind.
  2. Also, I've seen some people advise for (and against) using a prussik on Amsteel, same for girth hitching, but it seems universal that folks recommend against tying knots in/with it. What's the deal?
  3. What about wear and tear? I've seen some videos where folks are using 7/64" Amsteel daisy chains, for example, that looks pretty frayed and gives me the heeby-jeebies--when should it be retired/replaced?
  4. Finally, is there a safety difference between daisy chains, rope mods, and the Ultimate Stick Attachment?
All that to say, could someone maybe answer (or point me to another thread that answers) these questions and also just provide a general overview of the safety (and risks) of using Amsteel as an attachment method for climbing sticks? I've always valued the safety perspective of folks more knowledgeable than me on here. Thanks!
 
I run rope mods from "the amsteel guy", contact him on fb or order at eastern woods outdoors. Great people to deal with and the best quality
contact them for great customer service
 
I believe amsteel doesn't work well with knots because it is very slippery. I think for many knots it would be too easy for the tag end to pull through the knot under load.
 
From what I've seen amsteel has a low melting point and is not to be used as a friction hitch.
 
TNbowhunter said:
Hey y'all, I'm looking to switch my climbing stick (Hawk Heliums) attachment method from stock straps/OCB buckles to Amsteel to cut down on the noise and fiddle factor. However, I don't feel like I know enough about safety info on Amsteel to make an informed decision. Here are a few of the questions I have:
  1. I see tons of folks using 7/64", but I wonder how folks came to the conclusion that this smaller diameter is safe/preferable over something like 1/4", which gives me more peace of mind.
  2. Also, I've seen some people advise for (and against) using a prussik on Amsteel, same for girth hitching, but it seems universal that folks recommend against tying knots in/with it. What's the deal?
  3. What about wear and tear? I've seen some videos where folks are using 7/64" Amsteel daisy chains, for example, that looks pretty frayed and gives me the heeby-jeebies--when should it be retired/replaced?
  4. Finally, is there a safety difference between daisy chains, rope mods, and the Ultimate Stick Attachment?
All that to say, could someone maybe answer (or point me to another thread that answers) these questions and also just provide a general overview of the safety (and risks) of using Amsteel as an attachment method for climbing sticks? I've always valued the safety perspective of folks more knowledgeable than me on here. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Good questions
1) safe - because the force applied to each leg of the rope going around the tree is at most half your body weight. Same principle as a rope over a pulley system. That force is further reduced due to the angle of the rope around the tree which causes the stick to bite into the tree and create friction in the upward direction. As far as preferable, I think that is up to the user.
2) prussic are considered fine on amsteel if your working with a full bury rope. That is because it turns it from a hollow core to full core rope. Any hollow core rope should be avoided because it doesn’t allow the prussic to bite into the main line as intended. Avoid knots on amsteel because of how slick the rope is. Knots tend to pull apart.
3) amsteel will tend to fray faster over time than climbing ropes with the protective sheathing. A good test to help appease your fear would be to try cutting through amsteel with a regular kitchen knife. It is more difficult that you think.
4) all are strong enough for this application. I would avoid daisy chains with hawks sticks because of kick out. Another good option is the buckleless method. You can use a stock strap with the buckle removed. Tethrd versa straps are made of the same amsteel (dyneema fibers) and are 8ft long.
 
I put cam cleats on two of my helium sticks and run 3/16” amsteel. They work well and I’ve never had one of my sticks kickout. I have seen the lower standoff not touching the tree one time, but it was not set right to begin with and I was trying to go up sideways on a strong leaning tree. As soon as I put my foot in the aider, the bottom stand off came off the tree…..I was just going up one stick with a lineman’s belt to hang a trail cam.
I agree that little 7/64 gives me the heeby jeebies too…..but I have an aider from it that I’ll use on my short stick. Still, 3/16 or 1/4” ain’t gonna break and don’t weight much either.
If you get a cam cleat, don’t chince on it and get a good one!
 
Amsteel is pretty amazing stuff. I have been using it for years with my camping hammock. I have 2 whoopie slings on each end to adjust the hang length. They don't slip for that application even when they get wet. I just made my own daisy chains, but I haven't tested them yet. Hopefully nothing breaks! BTW check out a truckers hitch for hanging. I will never use cinch straps again. I might even drop the daisy chain for a single piece of amsteel with a fixed loop on one end. A simple alpine butterfly with a truckers hitch is the best tie down I have ever used.
 
Break strength, give or take:

7/64 - 1600 lbs
1/8 - 2500 lbs
3/16 - 5400 lbs
1/4 - 8600 lbs

Due to the way sticks are loaded, 7/64s at 1600 lbs is plenty. For direct weight support, like on my adjustable bridge, I use 1/4" full bury, with 3/16 full bury continuous loop to make a prussic. Using 1/4" would be overkill for stick attachment, but YMMV and whatever makes you comfortable. Weight increase on a 7-8' piece of amsteel 7/64 vs 1/4 wouldn't be that much, so unless you're a weight weenie, not a big deal, but the bigger the diameter the more costly the stuff is.

As others have noted, amsteel (HMPE) is slippery, so best to use long or full bury splices instead of just knots.

Many manufacturers are starting to offer sticks with amsteel rope attachment methods, Tethrd Skeletors come this way, and I believe they are using 7/64s.
 
I'd recommend skipping the Amsteel and look at the smaller utility cord from EWO. Amsteel gets frayed and grips the bark...1st season might be ok but the 2nd/3rd season u will be wanting to change them out. Having a little weight to the rope also helps when u gotta throw it around the trunk. I normally pass the whole stick around but sometime u can't do that and trying to throw a wispy rope that wants to stick to the bark is a pain in the butt
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top