Amsteel Blue Breaking - Not during saddle use

[manitoba450es]

so i've been wondering this ever since i've read some guys using amsteel as bridge material if anyone has had any experiences with it breaking outside of saddle usage. as an avid 4 wheeler i have had trouble with amsteel breaking when lifting up and down my plow multiple times over. that being said i've never experienced this on a straight pull. after doing some research on atv forums i was not alone. amsteel was breaking when pulled at a sharp (90 degrees) angle out from the winch. ive since bought a winch in which i mount external above my winch off my front rack so it is a straight pull and have not broke this amsteel one single time. so.... maybe its because my amsteel rope that travels on my permanent winch is muddy and dirty which shortens life expectancy and when stressed at 90 degrees it fails but i know for sure pulled off a large spool straight up and down i have no problem.
what i guess im getting at is i really like the light weight and splicing and strength of amsteel but am very nervous about it as a bridge and such a tight bend around the caribeener that it might snap unexpectedly like my winch rope when twisting into position around the tree or drop shot etc.

just wondering everyone else's thoughts. i would really like to use it but haven't had the courage with my experiance with it.

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[kenn1320]

So out of winch and 90 deg on a small roller it breaks? Is it truly amsteel or the cheap dyneema from china?

 

[redsquirrel]

Personally I think you're spot on. Amsteel was not intended to be used as many are using it. There are tests showing that knots can reduce it's breaking strength down to 1/3 of the original. Thank you for sharing your experiences with it.

 

[manitoba450es]

So out of winch and 90 deg on a small roller it breaks? Is it truly amsteel or the cheap dyneema from china?

it is amsteel blue winch rope. not a knock off. not off a small roller but off of a smooth rounded aluminum fairlead very similar to this below. im not throwing this out there to knock on this type of rope. im wondering what others think or if others have had similar experiances as me. in a straight line pull off the drum i have never had an issue. just while pulling at a sever angle.

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[Jefferson10940]

I have had my steel cable snap on my winch when plowing. Same as it comes out of winch then straight down to plow. That angle is the issue think. I used predator for my for the short time I used a kestrel. The TL uses webbing for the bridge. I admittedly am not concerned light weight.


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[Jasper2]

While I haven't heard of anyone actually breaking an amsteel bridge yet, I'll say this....I have some concerns. I may be in the minority on this but I'm not impressed with amsteel as a bridge. Personally, I think we have gone bat **** crazy on the weight savings and bulk reduction of certain things and bridges are no place to be messing around or experimenting.

I have hunted about 8 times with my mantis and the bridge is already noticeably worn, fuzzy and dulled or faded? making it appear way older than it is. The fuzz may not hurt anything but I don't like seeing it. The buries are starting to poke through the outer fibers (at least I hope that's all it is) and the fibers at the bottom of the spliced loops appear to be loosening up as it stretches and relaxes more and more.

For comparison, I've used both climbing rope and webbing for several seasons on other saddle bridges and they still look brand new. Maybe I'm just overly critical but I've already backed my amsteel bridge up with webbing.....time will tell but I'm keeping a close eye on it.

 

[Slingpredator06]

It is believed that using the wrong fairleads, hot winch drums, raising a plow too high and so on can have a negative affect on the amsteel as well. Maybe that's why it breaks.

 

[mattsteg]

just while pulling at a sever angle.

Certainly an appropriate typo/autocorrect.

Any estimate of the load it broke at or if there could have been an edge or grit somewhere causing the break? The main difference I can see here if the winch is pulling the rope across the contact point rather than pulling primarily normal to the rope. So if something bound up the load could get a lot higher, or really rake across a piece of debris.

For sure at minimum a reminder to check our gear thoroughly and be careful of how we use things.

 

[kenn1320]

While I haven't heard of anyone actually breaking an amsteel bridge yet, I'll say this....I have some concerns. I may be in the minority on this but I'm not impressed with amsteel as a bridge. Personally, I think we have gone bat **** crazy on the weight savings and bulk reduction of certain things and bridges are no place to be messing around or experimenting.

I have hunted about 8 times with my mantis and the bridge is already noticeably worn, fuzzy and dulled or faded? making it appear way older than it is. The fuzz may not hurt anything but I don't like seeing it. The buries are starting to poke through the outer fibers (at least I hope that's all it is) and the fibers at the bottom of the spliced loops appear to be loosening up as it stretches and relaxes more and more.

For comparison, I've used both climbing rope and webbing for several seasons on other saddle bridges and they still look brand new. Maybe I'm just overly critical but I've already backed my amsteel bridge up with webbing.....time will tell but I'm keeping a close eye on it.

Any pics would be great. Im 230+ and have used the same bridge for several years and have not seen anything indicating wear. There was a post earlier of a new mantis fraying and it was just the bury end wasnt fully burried. Some of the colored amsteel does lose its dye. Heck when I use green my fingers are green just splicing it. My silver is looking more white than when it was new, but I dont think color indicates wear.

 

[Slingpredator06]

Any pics would be great. Im 230+ and have used the same bridge for several years and have not seen anything indicating wear. There was a post earlier of a new mantis fraying and it was just the bury end wasnt fully burried. Some of the colored amsteel does lose its dye. Heck when I use green my fingers are green just splicing it. My silver is looking more white than when it was new, but I dont think color indicates wear.

Your right color fading doesn't indicate wear. From my understanding amsteels only weaknesses are heat(melting) and abrasion I'm certain situations. May be more though I'm no expert

 

[manitoba450es]

this discussion got me thinking and doing research again. apparently to combat synthetic ropes breaking while plowing this has been designed so there is a less severe angle coming out of the 4 wheeler. although not saddle related the design was changed primarily because of these type of rope breaking.

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[Slingpredator06]

this discussion got me thinking and doing research again. apparently to combat synthetic ropes breaking while plowing this has been designed so there is a less severe angle coming out of the 4 wheeler. although not saddle related the design was changed primarily because of these type of rope breaking.

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I think someone already asked but what kind of weight is being applied to the amsteel while plowing? If you had to estimate

 

[Slingpredator06]

A common mistake not necessarily just with plowing but in general is that people switch to synthetic like from cable and don't change out the necessary components on the winch or using the incorrect amsteel size also causing the amsteel to fail

 

[manitoba450es]

i dont want to scare anyone off of amsteel bridge but was thinking of incorporating into my saddle set up. now im not sure. i was hoping to get an overwhelming response that i was crazy and this stuff wont break if spliced proper. i dont know.... if i never seen it break multiple times plowing i wouldnt think twice about using it. maybe i was a little thumb happy on the raise button. all i know is its got me thinking. i know my winch rope would be wet and dirty and not dried out proper which could also contribute to this.
if anything i hope this sparked some good discussion. inspect your gear regularly. stay safe my friends

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[manitoba450es]

I think someone already asked but what kind of weight is being applied to the amsteel while plowing? If you had to estimate

weight of 60" plow and push bars is approximately 200lbs

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[manitoba450es]

A common mistake not necessarily just with plowing but in general is that people switch to synthetic like from cable and don't change out the necessary components on the winch or using the incorrect amsteel size also causing the amsteel to fail

my winch and fairlead was brand new. never was spooled with wire cable. it is almost exactly set up like this viper winch when i mounted it on my 4 wheeler except the cable was amsteel blue.

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[manitoba450es]

maybe its nothing to worry about. my winch rope sees a lot more abuse than someone taking care of it in a saddle hunting application.

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[Slingpredator06]

my winch and fairlead was brand new. never was spooled with wire cable. it is almost exactly set up like this viper winch when i mounted it on my 4 wheeler except the cable was amsteel blue.

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Wasn't targeted at you. Just speaking in general to find possibilities on why such a strong product would fail. Saddle hunters use amsteel for all kinds of applications but I do know that it fails most commonly in plowing and off road applications

 

[kenn1320]

this discussion got me thinking and doing research again. apparently to combat synthetic ropes breaking while plowing this has been designed so there is a less severe angle coming out of the 4 wheeler. although not saddle related the design was changed primarily because of these type of rope breaking.

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This is what I pictured would be on a winch. That pic in post 4 shows a winch that was not designed with any angle pull in mind. Strange the engineer who made the one in post 4 must not have common sense. Ive never had a winch but know the tree or other means of attaching a winch rope too is more likely to be at an angle than right in front of you.

 

[DanO]

This is an interesting discussion. I, like many of you, also use a plow/winch on my ATV. I was breaking the steel cable on mine every two years and it was directly related to the extreme angle and repetitive up/down in one area. Regular use of an ATV with steel/Amsteel line doesn't have these steep angles, but using it with a plow does. Off point - mounting the winch to the plow resolves this issue. What I did was switch to using a strap during the winter on my winch line specifically for using with the plow. Haven't broken the strap yet after 3-4 years now.

So, how does this relate to saddle hunting? I'm currently using 1" tubular webbing on my bridge but was thinking of switching to Amsteel. After this discussion and thinking this through, I think I'll stick with webbing. For those using Amsteel bridges, keep an eye on them and maybe plan to replace them every two years. There's a small length of the bridge that is repetitively being stressed at a fairly steep angle - much steeper than the ATV winch angle.