Amsteel Daisy Chain Tether?

[Dylan9862003]

Amsteel to amsteel. I ended up taking the webbing off for simplicity. I will keep the amsteel chain in my pack for backup at least.

That was my initial thought as well. I started a thread last night about the 1/4" amsteel daisy chains with some pics I took but I'm not getting any bites so I replied to this one for some insight..... Thanks

 

[Marc W]

I tried it but didn’t like not being able to fine tune the length. I have settled on using one rope with ropeman as a lineman’s with the amsteel daisy chain as my backup linemans. At height I put the amsteel around as lineman’s to convert rope to tether and use the daisy chain as my gear hanger.

 

[Shuwb]

As long as you clip to the bottom loop and leave it there, you can move up and down the chain loops at any point with a single carabiner and not be unclipped. I may, or may not, be playing around with a 1/4 amsteel tether run through a 1" tubular webbing section for abrasion protection from the tree bark

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Abrasion resistance- I bought a winch rope for making daisy chains and such. It had a protective sheath, a long one. I saved mine, wondering what I could use it for. It was 3/16 in amsteel. Be great for this application.

 

[mtsrunner]

what are you using as a tether?

Sorry, just saw your question. I am currently using Oplux as my tether. I usually hunt from a fleece saddle and back up with a RCH with a second prussic (Beal 5.5) lower on my tether and just loose enough to take weight off of RCH.

 

[kyler1945]

Sorry, just saw your question. I am currently using Oplux as my tether. I usually hunt from a fleece saddle and back up with a RCH with a second prussic (Beal 5.5) lower on my tether and just loose enough to take weight off of RCH.

The reason I asked was specific to you pointing out that amsteel has no stretch. Neither does oplux, for the purposes of this conversation. Just something to consider.

While I agree it is a factor that should be paid attention to while deciding on amsteel or no amsteel, it seems to be ignored when choosing a rope like oplux.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

The reason I asked was specific to you pointing out that amsteel has no stretch. Neither does oplux, for the purposes of this conversation. Just something to consider.

While I agree it is a factor that should be paid attention to while deciding on amsteel or no amsteel, it seems to be ignored when choosing a rope like oplux.

Correct me if Im wrong but is it really that important to our needs to choose a dynamic rope vs a static rope?
I can understand the need for dynamic when used in rock climbing because they may fall many feet before the slack is out of the rope so they do need a cushioning effect.
But for us, if we are managing our tether properly, we should never have more than a few inches of slack. I doubt we could perceive the difference between dynamic and static ropes.


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[kyler1945]

Correct me if Im wrong but is it really that important to our needs to choose a dynamic rope vs a static rope?
I can understand the need for dynamic when used in rock climbing because they may fall many feet before the slack is out of the rope so they do need a cushioning effect.
But for us, if we are managing our tether properly, we should never have more than a few inches of slack. I doubt we could perceive the difference between dynamic and static ropes.


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I simply wanted to point out that his reasoning behind telling the OP not to use amsteel as a fall arrest anchor, was because it doesn’t have any stretch. As suspected, the rope he’s using for his fall arrest anchor has no stretch.

It may not matter, as you pointed out, if no slack is introduced to the system. But the flawed logic can lead someone not very informed, not very experienced, to read the thread and think ‘thousands of people are using oplux, not amsteel, this guy said amsteel isn’t good for that shock load with no stretch, so oplux will absorb the shock created in a fall.’

It was simply meant to make @mtsrunner think twice if he thought that oplux would stretch. If he did not think that, or intend to imply that, cool beans. Secondarily, it was meant to clear up the false equivalence so that some person who has no idea what we’re talking about(there’s a pile of them on this site constantly asking people to clear or recommend things outside of their intended use, daily) doesn’t read the thread and jump to some bad conclusions.

Im not saying whether or not amsteel is good for a tether or not. Or that having slack in your tether is acceptable or not. Just trying to clear the lanes of communication because we aren’t having these conversations in person. It is incredibly easy for uninformed folks to make a very bad assumption based on the half truths posted here.

 

[mtsrunner]

I simply wanted to point out that his reasoning behind telling the OP not to use amsteel as a fall arrest anchor, was because it doesn’t have any stretch. As suspected, the rope he’s using for his fall arrest anchor has no stretch.

It may not matter, as you pointed out, if no slack is introduced to the system. But the flawed logic can lead someone not very informed, not very experienced, to read the thread and think ‘thousands of people are using oplux, not amsteel, this guy said amsteel isn’t good for that shock load with no stretch, so oplux will absorb the shock created in a fall.’

It was simply meant to make @mtsrunner think twice if he thought that oplux would stretch. If he did not think that, or intend to imply that, cool beans. Secondarily, it was meant to clear up the false equivalence so that some person who has no idea what we’re talking about(there’s a pile of them on this site constantly asking people to clear or recommend things outside of their intended use, daily) doesn’t read the thread and jump to some bad conclusions.

Im not saying whether or not amsteel is good for a tether or not. Or that having slack in your tether is acceptable or not. Just trying to clear the lanes of communication because we aren’t having these conversations in person. It is incredibly easy for uninformed folks to make a very bad assumption based on the half truths posted here.

Yes and no. Yes, we should never have more than a few inches of slack on our tether, so we probably don’t need dynamic ropes like rock climbers.

Here is where I’m not saying there is a statistically significant difference, but there is a difference...

Oplux has about 11.8 times more stretch than the equivalent Amsteel. That’s a fact, not a half truth.

I won’t go in to all the math, but Oplux has a minimum break strength is 5440 lbs and elongation at 300 lbs of 3.3%.
Amsteel Blue (3/16”) has minimum break strength of 4900 lbs and elongation at 300 lbs of 0.28%.

Is that enough stretch for someone to get lazy and take the chance of ever having more than a few inches of slack in their tether? NOPE. Absolutely not. I have thought about this. If you go back 10-12 years on Archery Talk or so, I was one of first to use rope tethers and prussic for saddles.

Having said all that, I still don’t like daisy chains of any sort for my tether because I do tend to make micro adjustments to the drape of my setup throughout the course of a hunt. A friction hitch (usually a prussic or Schwabish for me) are just so much easier and more precise than loops on a daisy chain.

BTW, I also leave my LB loosely attached while I hunt, so it’s not like I am pushing the envelope of safety. No hard feelings, though. New people reading these posts are always in the back of my mind, too. If someone read my post about Oplux and somehow interpreted that as carte blanche to take a 5’ static leap from their platform, then Darwin was always just around their corner anyway.

 

[Bwhana]

I had alreqdy decided against using one, except maybe as an emergency backup, but this raises some additional questions and food for thought on this topic.

should we be concerned about amsteel daisy chains using brummel locks?

I was about to make a daisy chain for sticks using the standard series of brummel locks seen here. I started thinking about this and decided to do some googling, maybe I shouldn't have. Here's a brummel lock failure that lead to a death (albeit with much higher loads)...

www.saddlehunter.com

 

[mtsrunner]

I had alreqdy decided against using one, except maybe as an emergency backup, but this raises some additional questions and food for thought on this topic.

should we be concerned about amsteel daisy chains using brummel locks?

I was about to make a daisy chain for sticks using the standard series of brummel locks seen here. I started thinking about this and decided to do some googling, maybe I shouldn't have. Here's a brummel lock failure that lead to a death (albeit with much higher loads)...

www.saddlehunter.com

Interesting that the sailing accident article claims that Brummell locks only maintain 40-60% of the original rope strength. I’ve read elsewhere that it is around 90%.

 

[EricS]

A few years ago people would say it’s a stupid idea. Now they will say “look how compact it stores”. I personally want to micro adjust and I can’t do that with daisy chained amsteel. I’m currently using tubular webbing with the austrialpin buckle as well Most of my tether adjustments are only an inch or two once setup.

 

[mtsrunner]

I made a 3/8” Amsteel daisy chain as a backup to my Oplux, but on the end loop I did eye splice with 10” double buries and triple Brummells at the other end. I’m fine with that as a backup to my primary Oplux tether.