So the title kinda says it all right. Do any of you guys use amsteel as your linemans belt? Im thinking of going this route to reduce bulk/weight a little bit since im also thinking about running dual linemans belts for the proper safety factor when getting up past branches and what not.
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Anybody using amsteel for linemans belt?
- Thread starter Jeffy
- Start date
I’d skip that & do some research. There are other options that reduce bulk/ weight that would be safer. Better options out there.
In your opinion what about amsteel would make it unsafe for a linmans belt? Considering there are saddles out there that use the same for a bridge that would actually be taking the same or less pressure for a longer duration of time. Now i am certainly not talking about my tree tether and i would never recommend that, due to shock loading factors and all that. I am currently using 11mm climbing rope for both (after having done a good bit of research) but would definitely like to size down the pile if i add a second.
I tried a daisy chain just messing around. Didn’t like it. It was difficult to advance as a LBand adjust. As just a rope I Wouldn’t trust it in conjunction with a friction knot.
My suggestion is use climbing rated rope.
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My suggestion is use climbing rated rope.
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Amsteel is not recommended by the maker of amsteel or climbers/arborists for use in friction hitches (either ropes) because it has a very low melting point (around boiling point of water) and can melt inside the hitch and all of a sudden become super slick. It is a bit of a scandal that it is used so often by saddle manufacturers in non-recommended ways.
Oplux with TRC hitch is your friend here.
11mm rope is huge. 8-9mm rated rope (oplux, resc tech, c-iv, htp) is a lot more compact and still a proper choice.
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You will find that the community here is evenly split on the use of amsteel in bridges. I am in the camp of "it doesn't make sense to risk your life by using a product in a way that the maker (Samson) and also people that I trust as much or more (climbers and arborists) than relatively new saddle makers would never do".
You'll really like Oplux and TRC together. The core is amsteel I believe, but the sheaths are Technora, which is similar to amsteel but has a melting point that is ridiculously high (you can't melt it using a gas stove).
I have used an amsteel daisy chain as a backup lineman’s to advance over a branch. I loop over branch, and pull to the tightest loop to connect.
it is very lightweight. But not fun to store, deploy, or unhook. I prefer to use my tether at this point.
look into the posts about two lineman’s belts in one, where you’re essentially using double length rope, and using tag end with another setup to go back around tree. For reference - this setup oplux weighs half as much as 11mm climbing rope of any kind. You could carry double length for same weight.
it is very lightweight. But not fun to store, deploy, or unhook. I prefer to use my tether at this point.
look into the posts about two lineman’s belts in one, where you’re essentially using double length rope, and using tag end with another setup to go back around tree. For reference - this setup oplux weighs half as much as 11mm climbing rope of any kind. You could carry double length for same weight.
Vtbow
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No.
Ask them for hard evidence of testing and manufacturer recommended uses for the rope they are using, in writing...as well as what the lifespan is and when to retire them....
Ask them for hard evidence of testing and manufacturer recommended uses for the rope they are using, in writing...as well as what the lifespan is and when to retire them....
For the reasons stated above, but again you have to own this one. It’s just my opinion from my experience. If it’s reduced weight & bulk your after my vote goes to oplux. Though that’s not what I run I prefer the bulk of my predator when moving the LB.......
I’m on team safety police and think you shouldn’t do it specifically because of that.
but If you think about all facets of use, from a cost, time, risk, and technical aspect, you find out that it’s not the thing you really think it is.
I used a predator lineman’s belt for four years, even though I had oplux for other uses. I was stubborn, and finally swapped my lineman’s. I lost 5 ounces on kit without making any compromises. Lots of more compact options, that don’t introduce additional risk, or complexity.
don’t overthink this one.
coming from a guy who both tried what you’re thinking for a time in the yard and realized it has no benefits, and from my position on the code red safety hollerin’ squad!
but If you think about all facets of use, from a cost, time, risk, and technical aspect, you find out that it’s not the thing you really think it is.
I used a predator lineman’s belt for four years, even though I had oplux for other uses. I was stubborn, and finally swapped my lineman’s. I lost 5 ounces on kit without making any compromises. Lots of more compact options, that don’t introduce additional risk, or complexity.
don’t overthink this one.
coming from a guy who both tried what you’re thinking for a time in the yard and realized it has no benefits, and from my position on the code red safety hollerin’ squad!
How is a linesman’s belt rope going to see that much heat, are people descending to the ground with them, or are they only for positioning? I would be more concerned about picking the asked on the tree bark. Dyneema core hitch cords are only dangerous if you descend too fast, so don’t do that. Prepare for an emergency exit by carrying a descender or belay device.
You mentioned it elsewhere as well (maybe lumps in with technical) but the complexity aspect of using a daisy chain (and concerns with friction hitches and rope handling) is a meaningful drawback if you're actually using it.
What's the benefit of amsteel in this application? And if using a friction hitch...will it grip consistently (and release smoothly too?). If it doesn't grip...there's your unplanned fast descent. If it doesn't release easily...what a pain.
kenn1320
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Friction hitches suck for one handed operation, like you see with a linemans belt. That reason alone should deter one from using amsteel in this application. I went from 11.7 bluewater assault line to 9 canyon and the reduced bulk is amazing. But the functionality has changed. If I was doing this for work every day, no way Id be using the limp canyon. It seems to fall and get hung up easily, where the assault kinda has back bone and easier to climb with. It maintains more of a hoop shape, which makes advancing it simple.
That being said, I dont see any heat being generated using a friction hitch amsteel to amsteel on a bridge as done by several saddle companys. Im using that set up now on a diy. Im not yanking the bridge through the prusic, no heat. If anything, I would question how tight of a bend radius we are putting it through.
That being said, I dont see any heat being generated using a friction hitch amsteel to amsteel on a bridge as done by several saddle companys. Im using that set up now on a diy. Im not yanking the bridge through the prusic, no heat. If anything, I would question how tight of a bend radius we are putting it through.
The right hitches with a tender do just fine.
If you want a stiffer 9mm rope try htp. You'll lose some packability of course.
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It is the heat generated within the friction hitch itself, not against the tree. He didn't ask about dyneema-core hitch ropes (which some are fine, like TRC which has a Technora sheath)...he's talking about straight dyneema with no sheath. If something happens, like a slip, and the temperature where the amsteel meets and holds via friction reaches the boiling point of water, then it will become ultra-slick real quick.
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If you fall and the friction between two pieces of amsteel has to stop you, then you might see enough heat. Again, no one except a few saddle makers and some folks here even consider using amsteel in this application, which I hope gives people pause. But ultimately, it is of course your decision.
Frankly, amsteel is cool stuff (conversation piece) and it is easy to make custom looking gear and it is cheap. I think those are some pretty motivators for its use.
Yes, dyneema on dyneema is what I’m taking about. If a short slip is taken on a properly tied hitch that functions efficiently
when tied to itself, there will be no slipping. Slipping could possibility happen if too much slack were allow to form, this would be more operator error than poor material choice.
Side note: TRC has a nylon core.