Arrow Conundrum

[Letemgrowitllshow]

I know I'm cutting it a little close getting a new arrow setup when it's darn near the end of July, but this is the USofA, greatest country in the universe

The 2 options I'm looking at. All input is welcome. I'm shooting a Bear Escape 29.5 inch draw 70lbs.
Disclaimer: I ain't no rocket surgeon. And I haven't really gone down the arrow rabbit hole but I walked past it and saw something shiny so here we are...


Option 1
A setup that allows me to set 1 pin and hit everything out to 30 yards.

This option is what I would prefer because it would take the guess work out of what pin to use when it's crunch time. I try to setup within 20 yards of where I think my shots will be and half a$$ keep 30 as my limit. I'll shoot out to 40 if condition are right but that's rare and I try to stay ethical.

What would a setup like this look like arrow wise? Is it pretty general or are there specifics?

Option 2
That stinking heavy arrow build that I hear alot about.

I really don't want to tackle this just 6 weeks before bear season opens, but shooting at bears it would be sweet to have a setup that is beefy.

What I wonder about the heavy arrow setup is are you using multiple pins say 20-30-40-50? Or are you able to achieve the same 1 pin for out to 30 yards?


I only shoot fixed broadheads. Haven't had good luck with the mechanicals. Also would like to get into sharpening my broadheads (sounds like something fun to tinker with) so if you have any comments on that please do.

 

[ThumbsMcGee]

If you already have option one with a tuned bow, then option 2 shouldn’t be hard to try out.

Make or buy a bare shaft test kit and shoot, leaving all else on your bow the same. Say you find your bow shoots bare shaft lasers with 300 spine arrows, 225gr up front. Then you know you can do the rest of the arrow tuning with that combination.

The only thing left to do would be adjusting your sight for the new arrow build.


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[heretic]

The bad news:
Unfortunately it IS a rabbit hole to go down, I believe Jerry said it best "that path is for your steps alone". You can take someone else's recipe and try to apply it to your setup, however it's not going to be nearly as effective as developing your own "handloads".

The good news:
You may be able to achieve both Option 1 and Option 2 depending on where you land. Other people's experiences may differ, however once I got my heavy build done I didn't notice a lot of difference in drop out to 30 yards. I'm a multi-pin shooter, however if I had a pin set around 25-27 yards I could probably shoot between 15 to 35 yards within a relatively acceptable margin of error.

I would suggest following the RF teachings:

• get a couple of arrows in two different spines 350/300 or 300/250
• get the RF test kit
• start flinging bareshafts till you find something that flies right

Once you arrive at that point you'll know if you can combine options 1 and 2. If so, work backwards from your handloads. If not the worst case scenario is that you have a couple of extra arrows and field tips to play with after season.

 

[MathewsMan7]

Do you have the ability to tune your own bow to fit the arrow or no? Also, what brand/model arrows are you looking into getting?

 

[EverettJ89]

take a look at the video below, it is how I tuned the first half dozen arrows I got from the local shop down the road. The arrows were factory fletched with standard inserts, cut the fletchings off one, found the point weight that shot best bareshaft, and nock tuned all 6 arrows.

This will save you some time vs. doing the ranch fairy's usual arrow turning routine, and you just need to refletch 1 arrow.

After I went through this exercise, I went through his full process with 6 bare shafts that I already had. What I wound up with was an arrow setup with total weight around 575 gr w/250 gr up front, and 725 gr super heavy arrow also with 250 point and 145 gr insert. Both shoot perfectly, and I can take my 250 gr cutthroat and put it on either arrow and not have any adjustments to make. At 30 yards there was not much difference in point of impact, but I haven't stretched either out to 40 yet.

Cut on contact, single bevel broadhead is what you need regardless of head weight or overall weight, and the arrow flying perfectly bareshaft is what you need to focus on, not speed or weight.

 

[Letemgrowitllshow]

Do you have the ability to tune your own bow to fit the arrow or no? Also, what brand/model arrows are you looking into getting?

All I've ever done to "tune" my bow is adjust my sight. I bought the bow with sight whisker biscuit on it. Swapped the sight out for a 4 pin sight.

I also don't have any preference on any brand. I've been shooting 350 spine but I'm down to 2 arrows.

I've never paper tuned but I've got enough stuff laying around to make a stand to hold the paper.

 

[Exhumis]

If you like to tinker and fiddle you owe it to yourself to bare shaft tune. You might be surprised, Holy cow my bow isn't actually that tuned! All good advice above. Get heavy arrow tuned isn't too difficult

 

[stone1]

If you like to tinker and fiddle you owe it to yourself to bare shaft tune. You might be surprised, Holy cow my bow isn't actually that tuned! All good advice above. Get heavy arrow tuned isn't too difficult

The heavier your arrow the less likely the POI will be the same at 20 and 30 yards. If your major concern is POI being the same at different distances, you would need to be above a certain FPS; the heavier arrow will diminish your FPS at a faster rate causing bigger variation.

Regarding tuning-

Broadhead tuning will give you the same POI as bareshaft tuning. You don't "need" to bareshaft tune to discover your bow isn't tuned. Most people don't walk back and french tune then test Broadhead vs FP POI at 40+ yards.

With how sensitive bareshafts are to hand torque I would recommend not bareshaft tuning; Unless you have nothing to do and want to drive yourself mad to perfect something that will not be the end all be all.

Bottom line- Shoot an arrow atleast 550 Grains at the most draw weight you can handle with perfect form. Single bevel broadheads provide the best penetration as they are the only tip that maintains rotation upon impact, thus maintaining the most kinetic energy. That is not to say Penetration = kills. Shot placement ='s kills.

For tuning- Rest at 13/16 centershot and paper tune. Adjust cam lean/ spacing/ cable guard pitch to achieve bullethole without moving the rest out of center shot.

From there walk back/ french tune out to your comfortable yardage. After results are desired shoot your chosen broadhead with fieldpoint groups. Micro adjust rest to direction of broadhead impact.

IE: Broadhead hits left of field point, move rest left. The reason for this is because your broadhead are planing left due to a nock right tail. The fix for a nock right Tail is to move your rest left. If you choose to bareshaft tune instead of broadhead tune; you will still need to broadhead tune after.

 

[slonstdy]

I did the RF heavy arrow trip and easily went from a 415gr to a 540gr following his directions but things got screwy when I tried going further so I went back to the most important step that's always overlooked - make sure the bow is in spec and tuned BEFORE playing with arrow weights. Once I tuned my bow bare shaft tuning was a breeze and I built arrows exactly how the RF preaches.

When I went out the first time with fixed blades to see how they flew I was shocked to see that they were grouping with my field points. I didn't need to move anything! This was with 639gr ~18% FOC arrows out of a 61# bow moving ~215fps with the same poi out to 35yds. I had the same surprise with my second bow shooting a 515gr 18.5% FOC at 60# flying ~260fps and matching poi out to 50yds, again without having to make any adjustments for erratic fixed blade flight because there wasn't any.

I am now convinced without a shadow of a doubt that a tuned bow is the single most important and overlooked first step towards getting good arrow flight, especially if shooting fixed blades. Now follow that with the RF methods for building arrows and not only will you have the most efficient death slinger possible you'll also have the confidence knowing your gear will get the job done.

 

[Bowmanmike]

I hope you have the more expensive whisker biscuit on your bow. The cheaper one doesn't adjust left to right which blows. Not being able adjusting your rest to tune is not helpful.
For what it's worth,my setup is a 60# halon x with 29.5 DL and my arrows weigh about 575 grains and the drop from 25 yds to 30 is quite a bit. I have a slider and would like to set it at around 25,but once i get close to 30 the drop is too much to be guessing. I think it drops over 5 " from 25 to 30. The sight at 25 hits 2 " high at 20 and that stays almost the same down to 10 yds.
This is of course bow specific,but i hope it gives you and idea of the range of the total arrow weight you could be comfortable with.

 

[MathewsMan7]

I am now convinced without a shadow of a doubt that a tuned bow is the single most important and overlooked first step towards getting good arrow flight, especially if shooting fixed blades. Now follow that with the RF methods for building arrows...

^^^ THIS! I wish the RF would mention this and make this more apparent in his videos. He’s great and says a lot of good things, but he’s not a very good teacher...once you understand bow tuning, THAT’s when his methods really shine IMO.

 

[Gator]

I'm currently testing an arrow at 506 grains and it's dropping 4" from 20-30 yards and that's shooting around 270fps (need to actually chrono this particular arrow but need to borrow the chrono again, I've chrono'd other weights above and below the 506). I'm with the OP in that I'm not going to sacrifice 1 pin for the sake of the heavy arrow.

 

[Jwiggins762]

I am now convinced without a shadow of a doubt that a tuned bow is the single most important and overlooked first step towards getting good arrow flight, especially if shooting fixed blades. Now follow that with the RF methods for building arrows and not only will you have the most efficient death slinger possible you'll also have the confidence knowing your gear will get the job done.

Yea it's a pain in the ass, I'm going through this now, wish I started back in march. But just got the bow a little over a month ago and it took some time getting all the things i needed.

 

[kyler1945]

I'm currently testing an arrow at 506 grains and it's dropping 4" from 20-30 yards and that's shooting around 270fps (need to actually chrono this particular arrow but need to borrow the chrono again, I've chrono'd other weights above and below the 506). I'm with the OP in that I'm not going to sacrifice 1 pin for the sake of the heavy arrow.

If your pin was set at between 25-28 yards, you’d hit within 2” of your aim point from 10-30 yards.

if that is not accurate enough for you, you might take up another sport besides shooting at an animal that can move it’s torso 8” in any direction relative to your aim point in less time than it takes your arrow to arrive.

if you’re shooting at whitetails beyond 30 yards, trajectory has little to do with your odds of success, when compared to how much The animals move.

Whitetail bow set up is simple. Shoot a 550-600grain arrow that gives you a minimum of 250fps. Set one pin at 25-28 yards, and dont shoot past 30. Going heavier than this won’t hurt anything if you have the bow energy to do it. There’s no upside to going lighter.

if you can’t get 250fps with a 550 grain arrow, you’re shooting an old bow, you’re really short draw, or your really weak draw weight, and this doesn’t apply to you. Youll have to make concessions somewhere. but for 80% of shooters, the above works.

 

[Gator]

If your pin was set at between 25-28 yards, you’d hit within 2” of your aim point from 10-30 yards.

if that is not accurate enough for you, you might take up another sport besides shooting at an animal that can move it’s torso 8” in any direction relative to your aim point in less time than it takes your arrow to arrive.

if you’re shooting at whitetails beyond 30 yards, trajectory has little to do with your odds of success, when compared to how much The animals move.

Whitetail bow set up is simple. Shoot a 550-600grain arrow that gives you a minimum of 250fps. Set one pin at 25-28 yards, and dont shoot past 30. Going heavier than this won’t hurt anything if you have the bow energy to do it. There’s no upside to going lighter.

if you can’t get 250fps with a 550 grain arrow, you’re shooting an old bow, you’re really short draw, or your really weak draw weight, and this doesn’t apply to you. Youll have to make concessions somewhere. but for 80% of shooters, the above works.

Here's the results from my testing recently. 250fps is too slow IMO. Now that I'm looking at my data again, looks like I did test a 505 grain arrow so my 270 guess is a little high.

Total Arrow Weight	Chrono
385	302 fps
440	284
460	282
505	264
460	278
593	250 fps

 

[kyler1945]

Here's the results from my testing recently. 250fps is too slow IMO. Now that I'm looking at my data again, looks like I did test a 505 grain arrow so my 270 guess is a little high.

Total Arrow Weight	Chrono
385	302 fps
440	284
460	282
505	264
460	278
593	250 fps

Too slow for what?

 

[Gator]

Too slow for what?

In my opinion just as it says. I'll blaze through a deer with that 385 grain arrow at 300+fps just like I have for years! Only reason I'm changing at all is because I have a new bow and can't buy the old arrows anymore so I had to get new arrows anyway.

 

[Bowmanmike]

In my opinion just as it says. I'll blaze through a deer with that 385 grain arrow at 300+fps just like I have for years! Only reason I'm changing at all is because I have a new bow and can't buy the old arrows anymore so I had to get new arrows anyway.

It all comes down to personal preference. We can do what we want within reason. My super light arrows i shot last year gave me 287 fps,my heavy ones go 243 . I had to adjust the sight minimally for shots under 30. Above 30 is where it starts to drop more,but that was similar with the lighter arrow too. I guess it is bow specific,and mine isn't a rocket anyway. I didn't notice the difference in speed shooting targets. I did notice the heavy arrows are killing my bag target.
I like how the heavier arrows made my bow more quiet. This will be my first season with them,so i hopefully will have a more meaningful review in December,after tagging out!!!!

 

[ThumbsMcGee]

All I've ever done to "tune" my bow is adjust my sight. I bought the bow with sight whisker biscuit on it. Swapped the sight out for a 4 pin sight.

I also don't have any preference on any brand. I've been shooting 350 spine but I'm down to 2 arrows.

I've never paper tuned but I've got enough stuff laying around to make a stand to hold the paper.

With this being said, I suggest you bring it to a pro shop for a tune up. Get everything centered, have a form check, and make sure all is well.

Then, begin “the process” of high FOC/heavy arrow tuning.


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[Letemgrowitllshow]

So I went to the shop and got tuned up. All is good.

I got some arrows to tinker with. Victory rip tko 300 spin 75g brass insert 125g field point. These arrows are 8.8g/inch. Cut to 29 5/8 inches carbon to carbon. Times those together and you get 260.7. add that plus 75 and 125 and you get 460.7g.

Is that my total arrow weight?