Arrow Setup

[BTaylor]

I haven’t shot any animals yet with my setups, so no idea on the penetration yet. But with a draw length of 29.5”, I shoot around a 31.5” arrow because when I buy wood shafting (usually comes at 32”), taper it, and put a nock on it that’s about what it works out to be. When I was shooting carbon a high FOC helped with flight and a heavy weight helped with noise so when I started making wood arrows I stayed did my best to keep those traits.

When I switched to making wooden arrows I picked a heavy common weight for broadheads and points at 190 grains, and a single length go aid in consistent sight picture for instinctive shooting. So I alter the spine for a new bow and brace height while using the same length of arrow and point weight.

So last year I carried a 720 grain 31.5” arrow with 190 grain single bevel glue on point with 23/64 POF shafting. About 11 grains per pound for my old Herters longbow.

I think this year I’m going to try one of the two Bear Kodiak Magnums, I’m deciding if I use the 55lb bow with 720 grain cedar arrows, or the 60 lb bow with some monster 850 grain Western Larch arrows I have made up for it.

Bows should be uber quiet at those weights. Prolly chrono with a sun dial but quiet.

 

[TheBlindCat]

Bows should be uber quiet at those weights. Prolly chrono with a sun dial but quiet.

They’re a bit faster than an atlatl dart, but not much. Going to local 3D events with 31.5” 11/32 or 23/64 wood arrows with 5” shield cut fletchings and seeing the little micro diameter stuff the target archers and compound folks are shooting is pretty funny. My arrows look like I just need some bodkins to take down a French knight.

 

[kbetts]

When I hear people talk about groups falling apart after 18-20 yards, this is why imo. I shoot heavier bows than most people on here and have toyed with some pretty heavy arrows, so I have a good feel for what trajectory they're getting.
There is a balance. I wish I could remember where I read it, but there are diminishing returns once an arrow eclipsed the 600 grain mark.
I've shot my 600 grain arrows from my 50# recurve and it was sloooow. Same bow, 500 spine without the brass and a 200 grain point and it's a different beast. That arrow is a shade under 500 grains.....still heavier than what most shoot from a compound. And dead nuts accurate with the same hold up to about 23 yards.

 

[TheBlindCat]

My groups open up past 20 yards but I don’t think it’s a trajectory issue as much, because the arrows aren’t stringing vertical, the group is just opening up. I think I just reach my limits on eye sight and instinctive shooting. Same reason I’m less accurate throwing a baseball past about 20 yards.

I should buy a chronograph, but shooting a 500 vs 700 grain arrow I assume I’m going to gain probably 30-50 fps (please correct me if I’m wrong) at best. I can’t see that improving the flight time to a degree I’d want to launch an arrow past 20 yards on a deer, those buggers move fast enough to change hits from a rifle at a couple hundred yards.

I figure for my first deer I don’t want to shoot past 15 yards because I want to be sure.

 

[gcr0003]

When I hear people talk about groups falling apart after 18-20 yards, this is why imo. I shoot heavier bows than most people on here and have toyed with some pretty heavy arrows, so I have a good feel for what trajectory they're getting.
There is a balance. I wish I could remember where I read it, but there are diminishing returns once an arrow eclipsed the 600 grain mark.
I've shot my 600 grain arrows from my 50# recurve and it was sloooow. Same bow, 500 spine without the brass and a 200 grain point and it's a different beast. That arrow is a shade under 500 grains.....still heavier than what most shoot from a compound. And dead nuts accurate with the same hold up to about 23 yards.

If someone is not shooting past 15-20 yards at a deer then why would they care if it dropped off hard not till 25-28? The weight is going to help the penetration more than it’s going hurt trajectory at 15-20 yards in my mind. I think there is a middle ground between trajectory, speed, and weight and that will vary based on bow weight used. For the weights you’re using im sure they’re plenty of both (weight and trajectory). I’ll probably end up in the 600-650 range with my next arrows with my 55# bow.

 

[kbetts]

If someone is not shooting past 15-20 yards at a deer then why would they care if it dropped off hard not till 25-28? The weight is going to help the penetration more than it’s going hurt trajectory at 15-20 yards in my mind. I think there is a middle ground between trajectory, speed, and weight and that will vary based on bow weight used. For the weights you’re using im sure they’re plenty of both (weight and trajectory). I’ll probably end up in the 600-650 range with my next arrows with my 55# bow.

Mainly cause 15 yards is alot closer than many people think.....especially out of a tree. They'd do themselves a favor by getting a flatter arrow. Getting that close is not as easy as most think. It sounds good, but it's very difficult. I love trad bows, but after shooting them for 15+ years now, many times I wanted more precision.

My groups open up past 20 yards but I don’t think it’s a trajectory issue as much, because the arrows aren’t stringing vertical, the group is just opening up. I think I just reach my limits on eye sight and instinctive shooting. Same reason I’m less accurate throwing a baseball past about 20 yards.

I should buy a chronograph, but shooting a 500 vs 700 grain arrow I assume I’m going to gain probably 30-50 fps (please correct me if I’m wrong) at best. I can’t see that improving the flight time to a degree I’d want to launch an arrow past 20 yards on a deer, those buggers move fast enough to change hits from a rifle at a couple hundred yards.

I figure for my first deer I don’t want to shoot past 15 yards because I want to be sure.

There is a huge difference between 500-700 grains to a bow. Huge.

 

[kbetts]

My groups open up past 20 yards but I don’t think it’s a trajectory issue as much, because the arrows aren’t stringing vertical, the group is just opening up. I think I just reach my limits on eye sight and instinctive shooting. Same reason I’m less accurate throwing a baseball past about 20 yards.

I should buy a chronograph, but shooting a 500 vs 700 grain arrow I assume I’m going to gain probably 30-50 fps (please correct me if I’m wrong) at best. I can’t see that improving the flight time to a degree I’d want to launch an arrow past 20 yards on a deer, those buggers move fast enough to change hits from a rifle at a couple hundred yards.

I figure for my first deer I don’t want to shoot past 15 yards because I want to be sure.

I'm going to go with spine issue. Probably not you.

 

[gcr0003]

Mainly cause 15 yards is alot closer than many people think.....especially out of a tree. They'd do themselves a favor by getting a flatter arrow. Getting that close is not as easy as most think. It sounds good, but it's very difficult. I love trad bows, but after shooting them for 15+ years now, many times I wanted more precision.





There is a huge difference between 500-700 grains to a bow. Huge.

I’ve shot traditional bow for a few years but last year was the first full deer season I hunted with one. 15 yards is up close and personal. It’s much more exciting. I enjoyed getting close to the deer, but I struggled concealing a draw at that range. Like you say it’s very difficult.

 

[TheBlindCat]

I'm going to go with spine issue. Probably not you.

I’m a self taught archer, it’s probably me.

 

[kbetts]

I’m a self taught archer, it’s probably me.

So am I. Still going with spine issue.

 

[BLR1970]

Thank you for the explanation on your various setups. I also learned I need to watch more basics videos and learn some terminology before going much further

In my opinion one of the best steps to take for a new trad bowman is visit with a traditional archery club such as Traditional Bowhunters of Georgia. Members of such a club are more than happy to help out and get you on the right path.

 

[MtnCodger]

In my opinion one of the best steps to take for a new trad bowman is visit with a traditional archery club such as Traditional Bowhunters of Georgia. Members of such a club are more than happy to help out and get you on the right path.

I just missed their last meetup, mid-late May I believe. I’m keeping an eye out for future events tho!

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Arrows in that 650 to 700 grain range make the bow very quiet. I remember I buck I shot just in front of with a 670 grain arrow (carbon) and he never skipped a beat. He had no idea I shot at him. He went right on about his business. Another buck I missed because I aimed low to compensate for a presumed drop stood stock still until the arrow stuck up in the dirt behind him. I assumed he would drop since he was 15 yards away and staring straight at me when I hit anchor.

It works the same for quietening a compound also. The mass of the arrow soaks up the energy and makes the bow quiet.

 

[gcr0003]

Newbie to trad setup so please forgive my ignorance. When configuring arrows for your setup, do you consider FOC%, overall weight, etc? I've read over some threads with archers mentioning having full length arrows for hunting setups and other arrows cut to their draw length. Curious of personal experience before I make any decisions on arrows and have them cut. Thanks in advance!

TLDR; I just give a bunch of high level long winded arrow tuning talk, no proofreading lol

There are many different ways to approach putting together arrows that fly well out of the bow you have. There is actually a fair amount that goes into it and if you dont know most the aspexcts this rant may be helpful to you before spending money. Your approach may vary depending if you want to re-use arrows and broadheads you already own and how much money you want to spend. I have went the cheap and use what I have on hand route and it can be done, but it also can be frustrating because you can at times be limiting the variables you can use to your favor. What do I mean by that?

Two main things that I am trying to balance when putting together new hunting arrows is TAW (Total arrow weight) and spine (the amount the arrow bends/deflects). GPP (Grains per pound) is the weight of your arrows in grains (unit of measurement) divided by the poundage of the bow you are using. You'll often hear, and it has been recommended in this thread 10 GPP. I have seen anywhere from 9 on the lighter and 13 GPP on the heaver side. To find the arrow weight for 10 GPP with a 45# bow you would take the bow poundage at your draw length 45 lb x 10 grains/lb = 450 grains. What goes into the weight of our arrows? You have the shaft itself, which will often be listed as GPI (grains per inch). a 11 GPI shaft cut to 30 inches will weigh around 330 grains. The different stiffness arrows wil be different thicknesses and therefore have different GPIs 8-13 usually. You also have your nock weight, your feather weight, your insert weight, and your tip or broadhead weight.

Getting proper arrow flight is so incredibly important with the traditional bows. Unlike a compound bow where a lot of your tuning comes from the bow itself, for traditional bows much of tuning is in the arrow itself. Most older traditional bows, and those that are true to older styles have off center to just at or just past center cut shelf. The shelf is what the arrow rests on. The cut of the shelf is in relation to the string. Holding your bow away from you look down the string while lining the string up with the center of the bow. You will be able to see if the cut is to the center, past it, or shy of it. The arrow has to bend around the shelf; therefore, the amount that the shelf sticks out effects how much of a bend shaft you need. This can affect what arrow build you need for your bow, so if possible it may be helpful to use the existing rest or choose a rest before you start your testing as it can affect the flight. If the rest is not slightly past center of the bow you will likely notice that the arrow looks like it is pointing off to the left or right depending on you handed. That is because it is. Being able to shoot an arrow straight despite the arrow being pointed off to one side is called archers paradox. We will tune our arrows such that they bend perfectly around our rest, for that we will need to focus on spine.

Spine is how much the arrow shaft bends/deflects. The spine of most of the arrows that you buy off the shelf use this terminology to let you know how stiff the arrows are. Spine is typically tested statically(not moving) at 28". They literally just put a weight or force at the center of the shaft while supported at each end and measure how much it deflects or bends down. The stiffer the shaft the less it will bend. 250 is very stiff and will deflect very little. A 800 spine shaft will deflect close to an inch. Don't ask me how much weight or force they put on it becuase I don't know but it would have to be standard. If you are already a bow hunter you probably know a little about spine. Dynamic spine is term use to describe how much the arrow bends when moving, like when shot from a bow. This is the spine that we will be adjusting to master the archer paradox and hit our desired weight. Besides bow poundage, shelf cut, and arrow spine we have two major ways to affect dynamic spine: arrow length and weight.

If you had a past center cut shelf like the modern aluminum risers have, you would have nothing for the arrow to have to bend around. In this case you would simply need to shoot an arrow that was stiff enough to not overbend, which can take the arrow off the flight path. Depending on the poundage of the bow would depend on the spine you would need. Heavier bow, stiffer spine. So if we didn't care how much the arrow weighed (say for target shooting) we could simply pick up a spine kit (400, 500, 600, 700) for example and shoot those with a standard 100 or 125 grain field point until we found the one that flies well. Starting with the weakest spine (700) you could shoot the bareshaft arrows at a target (preferably foam since it can be easier to see the flight of the arrow). What you would see as you shoot each arrow descending in spine and increasing in stiffness is the arrow kicking off to one side and slowly standing up toward center as you get stiffer. We will play with the dynamic spine with the weight and arrow length we want until the arrow is not kicking to the side but shooting straight.

Think of a 6ft 2x4 piece of lumber supported at both ends. If you stood on that piece of lumber at the center it would deflect quite a bit, but if you moved the blocks in closer to one another the wood would deflect less and less. This is the same for arrows. As you cut arrows shorter, the stiffer they become, and the less they bend. Similarly, if you were 200 lbs and stood on the 6ft 2x4" supported at both ends like the first example and it deflected 8inches, if you added someone else to stand with you on the center it would bend even more. This is also similar for arrows. As you add weight to the end of the arrow, the more the arrow will bend when shot. We will use the weight and length to get the right dynamic spine for our bow.

If you are able to buy a spine test kit and a field point test kit you will be able to see a lot of variation in arrow flight. You can test say a 400 spine arrow with 100 grain field point all the way up to say a 750 spine with a 300 grain field point and just shoot one spine across your available wieghts until you find the one that shoots the straightest. If after shooting all the spine and all the weight you are still not getting perfectly straight arrow flight, you can go with the slightly weak spine and cut the arrows down some. If you are not sure if you are under spined or over spined simply shoot the lowest spine arrow and see which way it kicks, and then shoot the stiffest spine arrow and see which way it kicks.

If you have a broadhead picked out or weight picked out sometimes that makes things a little easier. If knew I wanted to shoot a 200 gr broad head out of 45# bow which is 30inches long at 9 GPI Then I would be very limited on my options. 30x9= 270 grains. 270 shaft + 200 broadhead + 30-50 for feather, nock, and insert, itll be around 500-520 grains TAW or 500 grain / 45 pounds = 11.11 GPP. I would then shoot my 200 grain field point with all the different spine until I found the one that stood up the straightest. From there you could trim the arrow down to make it stiffer if you were in between being straight from one spine to another. If you dont have an arrow saw you would be limited.

If you wanted to reuse or build from a single spine arrow, say 400 or 500, then your only option would be to cut the shaft or add weight. For this you could use 100 grain inserts in conjunction with you weight test kit. You would use you 100-300 grain field points, and/or the 100gr insert plus the 100-300 gr field points to determine which flew the straightest. You would have to settle close to the weight that flew the best and then build broadheads + insert around that weight, and/or cut down the arrow until it flies straight.

Things to consider and that have been touched on briefly here is weight and trajectory. It is not a surprise that as you add weight to your arrow it will slow down, at a certain point quite quickly the trajectory will drop off considerably with respect to the weight. The drop/trajectory refers to the amount the arrow falls over a certain distance. Since traditional hunters accuracy/range is typically limited to around the 20/25 yard mark, you dont want an arrow that will drop a considerable amount in that distance. The less the arrow drops, the less vertical variability you will have in your shots, which should aid in accuracy at the ends of your range. For that reason I think 10 GPP is often quoted as a safe arrow weight for good penetration and trajectory. The benefit to the heavier arrows is penetration and sound. As some have mentioned heavier arrows though a little slower, are quieter and can pack a heavier punch based on conservation of momentum.

This is the cliff notes of a lot that I have learned about traditional arrow tuning over just a couple years. I tried to boil down to a way that someone new might be able to comprehend. Like many things in hunting, getting out there and doing it is going to teach you the most. But may this will help in some way. If you want to simplify this you can put your information of the bow and arrows you have and into the spine calculator at 3rivers and get pretty close. Then you can even buy and pay them to assembly exactly those arrows you chose with their calculator. You want the spines to match within a few points and you need to know what type of bow you have but it will get you in the family. You can also use the spine charts with point weight and draw weight to get you pretty close.

Arrow Spine Chart For Black Eagle, Gold Tip, Easton

Compound / Traditional Arrow Spine Chart Below is a list of spine charts from all manufacturers that Grand Valley Archery carries online and in-store. If you have any questions don't hesitate to shoot us an email. Arrow manufacturers we carry: Click on the links below to be taken to the...

gvarchery.com

3Rivers Spine Calculator

If youre just starting out, just getting arrows that shoot ok out the bow will likely be enough to get you going. Once you shoot for a while and develop good form and accuracy you can start rethinking building hunting arrows and perfect/tuning arrow flight. Don't let it overwhelm you because it can be frustrating. It is also a tinkerers dream and you can tweak and buy stuff forever. Enjoy the journey and ask lots of questions. Good luck.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I’ve shot traditional bow for a few years but last year was the first full deer season I hunted with one. 15 yards is up close and personal. It’s much more exciting. I enjoyed getting close to the deer, but I struggled concealing a draw at that range. Like you say it’s very difficult.

Choosing a tree with adequate cover will go a long way towards helping conceal your movement during the draw.
Knowing the body language of deer is also important.
I had an adult doe and a mature 150 class buck inside of 8 yards last season and they kept changing their minds about what side of my tree they were going to pass. I had to turn around THREE times while they were within 20 yards. They never saw me. Unfortunately, the buck decided to come on the opposite side the doe came...I only got half drawn before he made it through the shooting lane. It was so exciting!

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Newbie to trad setup so please forgive my ignorance. When configuring arrows for your setup, do you consider FOC%, overall weight, etc? I've read over some threads with archers mentioning having full length arrows for hunting setups and other arrows cut to their draw length. Curious of personal experience before I make any decisions on arrows and have them cut. Thanks in advance!

I'm a proponent of heavy arrows and high foc...I believe in the Ashby principles.
But THE most important thing regardless of weight or foc percent is perfect arrow flight. And perfect flight/recovery within a few feet of the bow.

 

[MtnCodger]

TLDR; I just give a bunch of high level long winded arrow tuning talk, no proofreading lol

There are many different ways to approach putting together arrows that fly well out of the bow you have. There is actually a fair amount that goes into it and if you dont know most the aspexcts this rant may be helpful to you before spending money. Your approach may vary depending if you want to re-use arrows and broadheads you already own and how much money you want to spend. I have went the cheap and use what I have on hand route and it can be done, but it also can be frustrating because you can at times be limiting the variables you can use to your favor. What do I mean by that?

Two main things that I am trying to balance when putting together new hunting arrows is TAW (Total arrow weight) and spine (the amount the arrow bends/deflects). GPP (Grains per pound) is the weight of your arrows in grains (unit of measurement) divided by the poundage of the bow you are using. You'll often hear, and it has been recommended in this thread 10 GPP. I have seen anywhere from 9 on the lighter and 13 GPP on the heaver side. To find the arrow weight for 10 GPP with a 45# bow you would take the bow poundage at your draw length 45 lb x 10 grains/lb = 450 grains. What goes into the weight of our arrows? You have the shaft itself, which will often be listed as GPI (grains per inch). a 11 GPI shaft cut to 30 inches will weigh around 330 grains. The different stiffness arrows wil be different thicknesses and therefore have different GPIs 8-13 usually. You also have your nock weight, your feather weight, your insert weight, and your tip or broadhead weight.

Getting proper arrow flight is so incredibly important with the traditional bows. Unlike a compound bow where a lot of your tuning comes from the bow itself, for traditional bows much of tuning is in the arrow itself. Most older traditional bows, and those that are true to older styles have off center to just at or just past center cut shelf. The shelf is what the arrow rests on. The cut of the shelf is in relation to the string. Holding your bow away from you look down the string while lining the string up with the center of the bow. You will be able to see if the cut is to the center, past it, or shy of it. The arrow has to bend around the shelf; therefore, the amount that the shelf sticks out effects how much of a bend shaft you need. This can affect what arrow build you need for your bow, so if possible it may be helpful to use the existing rest or choose a rest before you start your testing as it can affect the flight. If the rest is not slightly past center of the bow you will likely notice that the arrow looks like it is pointing off to the left or right depending on you handed. That is because it is. Being able to shoot an arrow straight despite the arrow being pointed off to one side is called archers paradox. We will tune our arrows such that they bend perfectly around our rest, for that we will need to focus on spine.

Spine is how much the arrow shaft bends/deflects. The spine of most of the arrows that you buy off the shelf use this terminology to let you know how stiff the arrows are. Spine is typically tested statically(not moving) at 28". They literally just put a weight or force at the center of the shaft while supported at each end and measure how much it deflects or bends down. The stiffer the shaft the less it will bend. 250 is very stiff and will deflect very little. A 800 spine shaft will deflect close to an inch. Don't ask me how much weight or force they put on it becuase I don't know but it would have to be standard. If you are already a bow hunter you probably know a little about spine. Dynamic spine is term use to describe how much the arrow bends when moving, like when shot from a bow. This is the spine that we will be adjusting to master the archer paradox and hit our desired weight. Besides bow poundage, shelf cut, and arrow spine we have two major ways to affect dynamic spine: arrow length and weight.

If you had a past center cut shelf like the modern aluminum risers have, you would have nothing for the arrow to have to bend around. In this case you would simply need to shoot an arrow that was stiff enough to not overbend, which can take the arrow off the flight path. Depending on the poundage of the bow would depend on the spine you would need. Heavier bow, stiffer spine. So if we didn't care how much the arrow weighed (say for target shooting) we could simply pick up a spine kit (400, 500, 600, 700) for example and shoot those with a standard 100 or 125 grain field point until we found the one that flies well. Starting with the weakest spine (700) you could shoot the bareshaft arrows at a target (preferably foam since it can be easier to see the flight of the arrow). What you would see as you shoot each arrow descending in spine and increasing in stiffness is the arrow kicking off to one side and slowly standing up toward center as you get stiffer. We will play with the dynamic spine with the weight and arrow length we want until the arrow is not kicking to the side but shooting straight.

Think of a 6ft 2x4 piece of lumber supported at both ends. If you stood on that piece of lumber at the center it would deflect quite a bit, but if you moved the blocks in closer to one another the wood would deflect less and less. This is the same for arrows. As you cut arrows shorter, the stiffer they become, and the less they bend. Similarly, if you were 200 lbs and stood on the 6ft 2x4" supported at both ends like the first example and it deflected 8inches, if you added someone else to stand with you on the center it would bend even more. This is also similar for arrows. As you add weight to the end of the arrow, the more the arrow will bend when shot. We will use the weight and length to get the right dynamic spine for our bow.

If you are able to buy a spine test kit and a field point test kit you will be able to see a lot of variation in arrow flight. You can test say a 400 spine arrow with 100 grain field point all the way up to say a 750 spine with a 300 grain field point and just shoot one spine across your available wieghts until you find the one that shoots the straightest. If after shooting all the spine and all the weight you are still not getting perfectly straight arrow flight, you can go with the slightly weak spine and cut the arrows down some. If you are not sure if you are under spined or over spined simply shoot the lowest spine arrow and see which way it kicks, and then shoot the stiffest spine arrow and see which way it kicks.

If you have a broadhead picked out or weight picked out sometimes that makes things a little easier. If knew I wanted to shoot a 200 gr broad head out of 45# bow which is 30inches long at 9 GPI Then I would be very limited on my options. 30x9= 270 grains. 270 shaft + 200 broadhead + 30-50 for feather, nock, and insert, itll be around 500-520 grains TAW or 500 grain / 45 pounds = 11.11 GPP. I would then shoot my 200 grain field point with all the different spine until I found the one that stood up the straightest. From there you could trim the arrow down to make it stiffer if you were in between being straight from one spine to another. If you dont have an arrow saw you would be limited.

If you wanted to reuse or build from a single spine arrow, say 400 or 500, then your only option would be to cut the shaft or add weight. For this you could use 100 grain inserts in conjunction with you weight test kit. You would use you 100-300 grain field points, and/or the 100gr insert plus the 100-300 gr field points to determine which flew the straightest. You would have to settle close to the weight that flew the best and then build broadheads + insert around that weight, and/or cut down the arrow until it flies straight.

Things to consider and that have been touched on briefly here is weight and trajectory. It is not a surprise that as you add weight to your arrow it will slow down, at a certain point quite quickly the trajectory will drop off considerably with respect to the weight. The drop/trajectory refers to the amount the arrow falls over a certain distance. Since traditional hunters accuracy/range is typically limited to around the 20/25 yard mark, you dont want an arrow that will drop a considerable amount in that distance. The less the arrow drops, the less vertical variability you will have in your shots, which should aid in accuracy at the ends of your range. For that reason I think 10 GPP is often quoted as a safe arrow weight for good penetration and trajectory. The benefit to the heavier arrows is penetration and sound. As some have mentioned heavier arrows though a little slower, are quieter and can pack a heavier punch based on conservation of momentum.

This is the cliff notes of a lot that I have learned about traditional arrow tuning over just a couple years. I tried to boil down to a way that someone new might be able to comprehend. Like many things in hunting, getting out there and doing it is going to teach you the most. But may this will help in some way. If you want to simplify this you can put your information of the bow and arrows you have and into the spine calculator at 3rivers and get pretty close. Then you can even buy and pay them to assembly exactly those arrows you chose with their calculator. You want the spines to match within a few points and you need to know what type of bow you have but it will get you in the family. You can also use the spine charts with point weight and draw weight to get you pretty close.

Arrow Spine Chart For Black Eagle, Gold Tip, Easton

Compound / Traditional Arrow Spine Chart Below is a list of spine charts from all manufacturers that Grand Valley Archery carries online and in-store. If you have any questions don't hesitate to shoot us an email. Arrow manufacturers we carry: Click on the links below to be taken to the...

gvarchery.com

3Rivers Spine Calculator

If youre just starting out, just getting arrows that shoot ok out the bow will likely be enough to get you going. Once you shoot for a while and develop good form and accuracy you can start rethinking building hunting arrows and perfect/tuning arrow flight. Don't let it overwhelm you because it can be frustrating. It is also a tinkerers dream and you can tweak and buy stuff forever. Enjoy the journey and ask lots of questions. Good luck.

Wow, first off I greatly appreciate you taking the time to type that up and provide your experience and knowledge in this thread. I’ve been hunting with a compound for just over 10yrs now. You answered my questions about which components crossed over and well as the glaring differences. I had an arrow build planned out after reading other recommendations here but now I’m going back on that and doubling checking if it would be the right idea. Thank you again for all of this information!!

 

[gcr0003]

Wow, first off I greatly appreciate you taking the time to type that up and provide your experience and knowledge in this thread. I’ve been hunting with a compound for just over 10yrs now. You answered my questions about which components crossed over and well as the glaring differences. I had an arrow build planned out after reading other recommendations here but now I’m going back on that and doubling checking if it would be the right idea. Thank you again for all of this information!!

Good deal, if you found any of it helpful then it was worth typing out. If you're just starting out and interested in get to the hunting weight off the bat then its worth getting a test kit together and find the weight that flys well; however, being new to traditional shooting things like your draw, release, and grip change as you develop your shot and can also affect your arrow flight. It may be safer/easier/less frustrating to just get some arrows that are close in spine to what you need and just get to shooting first, knowing that once you get better you can build heavier hunting arrows. Tackling it all at once could be frustrating, it all depends.

There was a couple other things I wanted to note about FOC and arrow tuning. The more weight you add to the end of the arrow, the more it moves the center of mass. The center of mass is the point which you can balance the arrow on your finger. As you add mass to the tip of the arrow whether by an insert or broadhead weight, the more the COM (center of mass) moves toward that weight. Another aspect to the position of the COM is the distance the mass is at. The further away or out you get the weight from the measures center of the arrow the more affect it will have on moving the center of mass. What I mean by this is a 100 grain insert with a 100 grain broadhead will have a slightly lower FOC (front of center) COM than a standard 14 grain insert with a 200 grain broadhead. Both are approximately 200 grain, but with the weight all being moved forward into the broad head moves the COM forward more. This is because the broadhead puts more weight further away from the center of the arrow. If you are trying to hit specific % FOC then you can use this to your advantage. One downside to putting more weight in the tip that I have heard is that the insert to broadhead joint can become the weak point for breaking. This is where you get into reinforced inserts and collards and things like that. I think under 200 it isn't worth fooling with by in time if it becomes an issue for me I may change my mind. That is, if it is a concern. It is not something I have experience with yet.

On the topic of insert weight and tip (broadhead) weight. You will want to test your arrows in the configuration you want to hunt with. That is, insert weight and tip weight. Not only does the insert weight and tip weight affect how forward your COM will be. It also affects the dynamic spine of your arrow based on the concept I mentioned earlier. Weight and length effect our dynamic spine; therefore, the further out we have the weight the more bend we will get in the arrow. 100 grain insert with a 100 grain broadhead will not bend the arrow as much as a 14 grain insert and a 200 grain broadhead, i.e. they wont fly the same. This may not be a big issue to your arrow flight but it can be depending on a few factors. You can always shoot both and see the difference. If you're inbetween shaft length, weight, or spine, this could effect your flight enough that it is worth choosing one over the other. So, think about if you want to shoot a 200 grain broadhead or a 100 grain one, and that could help you narrow your arrow tuning down some. It is not a big deal but also remember that you will need to buy field points in that weight to match the broadhead you choose.

I have not went all out and bought all the arrow making equipment there is (I am still lacking an arrow saw); however, one of the biggest helpers to me has been the arrow scale. You can accurately weigh your components and total arrow weight as you make your arrows. It corrected some issues I had and helped me choose the right weight for my arrows. Another tip if you're putting together arrows yourself, at least as your testing combinations out is to get hot-melt glue for inserts. This will allow you to remove and replace inserts as you are finding the weights that work for you. Once you get arrows flying well with the correct weight combo, say 75 gr insert 175 grain broadhead, then you can use other glue if you so choose to complete your arrow build. It really is fun process.

Ferr-L-Tite "Hot-melt adhesive"

Cheap Scale Option

Alright, that is probably enough info for now lol. Let us know how you end up proceeding. It is always fun to see arrow builds, frustrations and successes.

 

[MtnCodger]

Thank you again for this additional info as well! Anything helps at this stage, I promise. To go off of what you said about playing it safe by starting with a recommended spine and deciding what weight of broadhead to use and building from there, I had started a couple of configurations before and I’ll list them below.

Both configurations would be 3Rivers’ Traditional Only Autumn Orange XX75 cut to 30” from a 62” recurve, 45#@28”

For a 200gr broadhead: 2117 shaft, 400 spine, 12gpi with 29gr insert totaling ~589gr.

For a 150gr broadhead: 2016 shaft, 500 spine, 10.6 gpi with 23 grain insert totaling ~491.

I plan to buy the pre-fletched arrows so I doubt these weights include the feathers, wrap, nock etc. Those prob push the weight closer to ~620 and ~520

 

[kbetts]

Thank you again for this additional info as well! Anything helps at this stage, I promise. To go off of what you said about playing it safe by starting with a recommended spine and deciding what weight of broadhead to use and building from there, I had started a couple of configurations before and I’ll list them below.

Both configurations would be 3Rivers’ Traditional Only Autumn Orange XX75 cut to 30” from a 62” recurve, 45#@28”

For a 150gr broadhead: 2117 shaft, 400 spine, 12gpi with 29gr insert totaling ~539gr.

For a 200gr broadhead: 2016 shaft, 500 spine, 10.6 gpi with 23 grain insert totaling ~541gr.

I plan to buy the pre-fletched arrows so I doubt these weights include the feathers, wrap, nock etc. Those prob push the weight closer to ~560-570

The 2117 is the stiffer of the two shafts. Point weight should be higher on the 2117.
Not saying it won't tune, but the point weights look backwards.