Arrow weight/spine confusion

[Slickiron]

I recently read a post here on hunting arrow weight and most agree around 500 grs is the sweet spot. I never wanted to go down this rabbit hole of bow/arrow tuning but here I am.
So here is my confusion:
My current arrows weigh between 416 - 432 grs, are 10.3% F.O.C. and are the recommended spine for my bow poundage but don't shoot as well as my old xx75 2216's which are 550 - 570 grs and the wrong "weight" (under spined) according to the arrow chart. What I mean by "...don't shoot as well..." is that I notice the tail end sometimes "porpoises" and the arrow doesn't hit the target dead on, it's like it got there from being shot from a different location. The "wrong sized" xx75's fly laser beam straight, albeit slower and really give the target a thump when they hit.
I know the spine is the amt of flex/stiffness in the shaft but shouldn't the physical weight of the arrow be the deciding factor on what is "safe" to shoot in regards to bow damage? The only reason I shoot the xx75's is for volume target practice from up in the tree so I don't have to climb up and down to retrieve arrows. Seems to me that having at least the minimum physical weight to protect the bow would be more important than having an under spined arrow that has a poor flight path. I'm not saying arrow flight isn't important because that's the main reason I'm here trying to figure this out. Are these two separate issues I'm mixing up?
I am going to buy new arrows and have them setup at 500 grs or more and see if that helps my arrow flight dilemma.
Can any of you tuning wizards make this simple to understand?

I just finished the craziest arrow build of.my life. I had to pull from mass amounts of proven reserch. I settled on following Dr ed Ashbys guidelines for building e.f.o.c arrows ( extream forward of center) it was an highly precision task & it took me 2 springs &2summers of experiments , bareshaft tuning to find the correct perfect spine on full length shafts by cutting 1/16 " slivers off , squaring the arrow and shoot ALOT then repeat until the arrow slowly moved over to a stiff spine once it barely crossed over it was ready cause the fletvhings will.make the spine perfect on the line. I built them ,Nock tuned , braodhead tuned and now have some amazing flying arrows. They are aprox 740+grains total , 21%foc ( which makes them in the e.f.o.c range) , and tipped with grizzlystik 200grain tanto tipped single bevel broadheads.
They fly better than any arrow ive ever shot , make my bow quieter, and when shooting broadheads dont get pushed to the side by heavy winds even out at 50yrds.. Like actual darts!! It was a crazy build and at times i thought i was losing my mind but kept going back to the reserch and guides and got it done!! I am glad i did. 650grains is the heavy bone breaking threshold. Its recomended by hunting guides in alaska, all because of Dr.Ashbys studies. Please check out the 12 arrow penetrating enhancing factors to get a better understanding of " why heavier"?

[URL

 

[Slickiron]

I recently read a post here on hunting arrow weight and most agree around 500 grs is the sweet spot. I never wanted to go down this rabbit hole of bow/arrow tuning but here I am.
So here is my confusion:
My current arrows weigh between 416 - 432 grs, are 10.3% F.O.C. and are the recommended spine for my bow poundage but don't shoot as well as my old xx75 2216's which are 550 - 570 grs and the wrong "weight" (under spined) according to the arrow chart. What I mean by "...don't shoot as well..." is that I notice the tail end sometimes "porpoises" and the arrow doesn't hit the target dead on, it's like it got there from being shot from a different location. The "wrong sized" xx75's fly laser beam straight, albeit slower and really give the target a thump when they hit.
I know the spine is the amt of flex/stiffness in the shaft but shouldn't the physical weight of the arrow be the deciding factor on what is "safe" to shoot in regards to bow damage? The only reason I shoot the xx75's is for volume target practice from up in the tree so I don't have to climb up and down to retrieve arrows. Seems to me that having at least the minimum physical weight to protect the bow would be more important than having an under spined arrow that has a poor flight path. I'm not saying arrow flight isn't important because that's the main reason I'm here trying to figure this out. Are these two separate issues I'm mixing up?
I am going to buy new arrows and have them setup at 500 grs or more and see if that helps my arrow flight dilemma.
Can any of you tuning wizards make this simple to understand?

This is the world record brown bear taken with an 650grain grizzlystik system with an 200grain tanto tipped single bevel maasai broadhead . a 14yrd frontal shot with 8 1/2 feet of penetration!

 

[Slickiron]

I recently read a post here on hunting arrow weight and most agree around 500 grs is the sweet spot. I never wanted to go down this rabbit hole of bow/arrow tuning but here I am.
So here is my confusion:
My current arrows weigh between 416 - 432 grs, are 10.3% F.O.C. and are the recommended spine for my bow poundage but don't shoot as well as my old xx75 2216's which are 550 - 570 grs and the wrong "weight" (under spined) according to the arrow chart. What I mean by "...don't shoot as well..." is that I notice the tail end sometimes "porpoises" and the arrow doesn't hit the target dead on, it's like it got there from being shot from a different location. The "wrong sized" xx75's fly laser beam straight, albeit slower and really give the target a thump when they hit.
I know the spine is the amt of flex/stiffness in the shaft but shouldn't the physical weight of the arrow be the deciding factor on what is "safe" to shoot in regards to bow damage? The only reason I shoot the xx75's is for volume target practice from up in the tree so I don't have to climb up and down to retrieve arrows. Seems to me that having at least the minimum physical weight to protect the bow would be more important than having an under spined arrow that has a poor flight path. I'm not saying arrow flight isn't important because that's the main reason I'm here trying to figure this out. Are these two separate issues I'm mixing up?
I am going to buy new arrows and have them setup at 500 grs or more and see if that helps my arrow flight dilemma.
Can any of you tuning wizards make this simple to understand?

Please.read this.

12 Factors

 

[EricS]

I think your erratic arrow flight is a form problem. I have it to. Bigger vanes help and so do heavier aka slower arrows. It’s amazing how forgiving the older bows with lower brace height and non parallel limbs were when they were slinging arrows at 230-250 FPS.

 

[stickman6]

What I know is I went to a lighter arrow for one year. That actually cost me more deer than shooting a slower quieter set up. The air was faster but the bowl was louder and I had more deer duck the aero than ever before. I change back from a 400 arrow to a 340 in a gold tip and that choir did the bow back down. I had last message on game and open my eyes to sound.
All this talk about FOC, And arrow weight is great to debate. The bottom line is, you have perfect arrow flight, the nock of the arrow is in line with the tip. If the NOC of the arrow tip are not in a line, then you lose energy when it enters whatever it enters.
Not good.
Quiet, with perfect arrow flight reign supreme!
There is way too much emphasis on high FOC right now. Spine the arrow for flight, and keep the bow quiet. That is what lays animals down.


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[slonstdy]

First I find out I have to paper tune and now my form is in question?? Think I should have taken the blue pill... HAHA!!

In all seriousness I appreciate all the input you guys have given me, that's a lot of useful information from years of tried and true experiences I'm sure. I'll get to paper tuning first and then move on to proper arrow spine/weight selection...(Dear God, please don't let it be my form...)
I'll keep you guys posted...

 

[stickman6]

This guy had some pretty neat videos on getting your center shot correct without the paper tune. He’s not necessarily a superstar shooter but his message is on point.

He has a series of three videos that is definitely worth a watch


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[stickman6]

This is exactly the method that I take in giving a arrow set up correct. If it will not turn into a perfect center then I have a spine issue or some other issue.


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[Weldabeast]

There is way too much emphasis on high FOC right now. Spine the arrow for flight, and keep the bow quiet. That is what lays animals down.


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Dr. Ashby studied on the subject for 27 years..... Now the info he found isn't the end all be all but if i can make a more lethal arrow just as easily as a less lethal arrow why would i not go for heavy high foc. I don't have rhinos or cape buffalo but a big boar hog is pretty tough and every year there's a possibly to get drawn for sambar deer and they are close to African game size and i keep waiting on my cousin to invite me to head out to the frontier state for Bullwinkle

 

[EricS]

First I find out I have to paper tune and now my form is in question?? Think I should have taken the blue pill... HAHA!!

In all seriousness I appreciate all the input you guys have given me, that's a lot of useful information from years of tried and true experiences I'm sure. I'll get to paper tuning first and then move on to proper arrow spine/weight selection...(Dear God, please don't let it be my form...)
I'll keep you guys posted...

The main reason I mention form Is your post mentioning your arrow sometimes porpoises. Most tuning issues are very consistent. Using field points you can shoot very good groups with a bow that’s out of tune. A bow being tuned well can make it more forgiving to problems with form.

 

[Buckhole75]

If porpoising check for fletching contact Very common.Also if it is only sometimes and you are shooting something besides a one cam check for cam timing issues.

 

[slonstdy]

Great news, the paper tune did it and with a big sigh of relief it wasn't my form!!

You guys hit the nail on the head with the paper tune recommendation, holy smokes does it make a difference. I've never had the bow shoot this well!

Initially had a high left nock tear on every type of arrow/vane size except for them old xx75's which consistently shot bullet holes. Corrected high in a couple of moves then left in a couple more. Moved on to confirming sight zero at 3yds then 10yds and was shooting high and right. A few adjustments on the sight and I continued walk back tuning out to 30 yds before I ran out of daylight. Will continue tomorrow out to 50yds then start experimenting with heavier tip weight. Think I'm actually enjoying this...

 

[heretic]

Think I'm actually enjoying this...

Welcome to the rabbit hole! You can checkout anytime you like but you can never leave

 

[Smokingbarrel270]

Great news, the paper tune did it and with a big sigh of relief it wasn't my form!!

You guys hit the nail on the head with the paper tune recommendation, holy smokes does it make a difference. I've never had the bow shoot this well!

Initially had a high left nock tear on every type of arrow/vane size except for them old xx75's which consistently shot bullet holes. Corrected high in a couple of moves then left in a couple more. Moved on to confirming sight zero at 3yds then 10yds and was shooting high and right. A few adjustments on the sight and I continued walk back tuning out to 30 yds before I ran out of daylight. Will continue tomorrow out to 50yds then start experimenting with heavier tip weight. Think I'm actually enjoying this...

Great job!