ascender fail and backing one up?

[raisins]

Dear All,

First post, so hello and thanks for any replies.

On a lineman's set up, any way to back up an ascender (like ropeman 1) so that you have one handed operation, but if the spring fails or bark gets between rope and teeth then you won't fall? (other than tethering, which I will start doing while I climb next year)

I've searched and can't find anything. I don't like relying so much on a single mechanical item.

Thanks - R

 

[EricS]

You could always back it up with a prussik. It would need to be between your ropeman and the tree. It would need to be fairly long to allow you some adjustments while climbing without having to adjust it every time.

 

[EricS]

Once a ropeman grab the rope the spring is doing nothing. So feel some weight in your rope before committing to it holding. Personally I don’t see a need to back it up on a linesmans but it’s not a bad idea on a tether.

 

[raisins]

Once a ropeman grab the rope the spring is doing nothing. So feel some weight in your rope before committing to it holding. Personally I don’t see a need to back it up on a linesmans but it’s not a bad idea on a tether.

I know, but I would like a redundancy there. I guess the ultimate and easiest backup is just to stay tethered. I find that most of my set up time is at the base of the tree and at the top. I get up the tree pretty fast, and moving a tether will literally only add a minute or so.

There are springless ascenders (petzl tiploc) but I don't think they are 1 hand operation. The petzl zigzag looks awesome (basically a one hand, mechanical prusik), but costs over $400.

Maybe tie an alpine loop in the lanyard rope at the max length I think I'll need and then clip that to the same carabiner? If ascender failed, then I would just back out until the loop pulled tight against the 'biner? (basically similar to your backup prusik suggestion?)

 

[Vtbow]

I know, but I would like a redundancy there. I guess the ultimate and easiest backup is just to stay tethered. I find that most of my set up time is at the base of the tree and at the top. I get up the tree pretty fast, and moving a tether will literally only add a minute or so.

There are springless ascenders (petzl tiploc) but I don't think they are 1 hand operation. The petzl zigzag looks awesome (basically a one hand, mechanical prusik), but costs over $400.

DO NOT USED A TIBLOC!. It is an emergency use device only and has sharp teeth. Repetitive use such as linemans or tether will shred your rope. If you read the petzl technical bulletin is is labeled as an "Utralight Emergency Ascender"...

 

[pesqimon]

I don't share your concern with regards to the linesmans, but if I did, I think replacing the Ropeman with a prusik and a tender is what I would do.

You can do it the way that New Tribes ropes are set up or get Petzl Shizll
https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=2076

By the way, are you tying a stopper knot at the end of your linesmans rope? Just checking.

 

[HotPickle]

x2 for a stopper knot... make sure to dress the knots as well, I'll probably tie a double fisherman's 3-4 times before I'm happy with it (but I'm not a great rope guy, so take it for what it's worth).

If your rope is in good condition and not out of date (I think it will be important to adopt some kind of professional practice for rope maintenance and checking, for myself at least, because I'm learning as I go here), a prusik should be darn near fail proof. Takes the risk of mechanical failure out. However, a fella I know who is big into rope work mentioned how the diameter of your prusik line has to be in the right range to work properly.. I found this searching on google:

"Prusik loop material should be approximately 60% to 80% of the standing line diameter. If the hitch is too small, the hitch will be tight, making it difficult to free and then move the loop. If the diameter is too large, the hitch will not tighten up enough to grip and will slip.
Flexibility is important. A cord that is too stiff will not allow the hitch to tighten enough to grip the standing line. In life safety applications such as rescue and belays, many authorities recommend the use of two tandem triple wrap Prusik hitches. Many authorities suggest using 8mm cord for 1/2″ rope and 7mm cord for 7/16″ ropes."
from https://www.rocknrescue.com/blog/prusik-loop-material-guide/

This is something I did not know until about 24 hours ago! This is going to be my summer of learning, I'm new to it all as well

 

[raisins]

I don't share your concern with regards to the linesmans, but if I did, I think replacing the Ropeman with a prusik and a tender is what I would do.

You can do it the way that New Tribes ropes are set up or get Petzl Shizll
https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=2076

By the way, are you tying a stopper knot at the end of your linesmans rope? Just checking.

Right now, I am using a strap with a buckle. The end of the strap is folded over to act as a stop, but no otherwise.

I was looking at the aerohunter lineman

https://aerohunter.us/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=55

which I believe is made by New Tribe.

Is this the one? I can see how you could shorten it with one hand (since the little stopper would open the prusik) but I can't see how you could lengthen the loop with one hand.

 

[raisins]

x2 for a stopper knot... make sure to dress the knots as well, I'll probably tie a double fisherman's 3-4 times before I'm happy with it (but I'm not a great rope guy, so take it for what it's worth).

If your rope is in good condition and not out of date (I think it will be important to adopt some kind of professional practice for rope maintenance and checking, for myself at least, because I'm learning as I go here), a prusik should be darn near fail proof. Takes the risk of mechanical failure out. However, a fella I know who is big into rope work mentioned how the diameter of your prusik line has to be in the right range to work properly.. I found this searching on google:

"Prusik loop material should be approximately 60% to 80% of the standing line diameter. If the hitch is too small, the hitch will be tight, making it difficult to free and then move the loop. If the diameter is too large, the hitch will not tighten up enough to grip and will slip.
Flexibility is important. A cord that is too stiff will not allow the hitch to tighten enough to grip the standing line. In life safety applications such as rescue and belays, many authorities recommend the use of two tandem triple wrap Prusik hitches. Many authorities suggest using 8mm cord for 1/2″ rope and 7mm cord for 7/16″ ropes."
from https://www.rocknrescue.com/blog/prusik-loop-material-guide/

This is something I did not know until about 24 hours ago! This is going to be my summer of learning, I'm new to it all as well

For prusiks, I was planning to use 7 mm for the loop on a 11 mm line, which is like 64%.

 

[pesqimon]

Right now, I am using a strap with a buckle. The end of the strap is folded over to act as a stop, but no otherwise.

I was looking at the aerohunter lineman

https://aerohunter.us/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=55

which I believe is made by New Tribe.

Is this the one? I can see how you could shorten it with one hand (since the little stopper would open the prusik) but I can't see how you could lengthen the loop with one hand.

Yeah, that is the one. Simply pull on the prusik itself to lengthen it. It's really neat.

 

[Mike Nutto]

So if your afraid to use the Ropeman 1 don't buy it !!!!!!!! Use a prusik on the linemen's belt and just use two hands , to adjust. Aero hunter does have the helper for the prusik knot , maybe try that. If your worried about the rope man one failing, then your not ready to use it! Stopper knots are a must! I like the idea of back ups on my tether as a safety. I used a prusik on a linemen's belt for years till I got the rope man, It's a solid tool , now if you have a stopper knot ( a proper one) at the end of the linemen's ,even if the rope man failed it would stop you as the rope is captured inside. Learning to trust the gear is a big deal, with this style of hunting. Id say start with the areo hunter linemens belt.

 

[raisins]

Yeah, that is the one. Simply pull on the prusik itself to lengthen it. It's really neat.

Cool. So maybe this isn't as nice as the Ropeman 1, but you can operate that prusik and shorten and lengthen with just one hand (similar to a ropeman or my current strap)?

The only lineman with prusik I've used is the free one that comes with a muddy harness, and I didn't like it at all. Very awkward to use 2 hands in a tree.

 

[public_land]

I use the prusik knot currently with my lineman's belt. I use it one handed with a simple modification.

I run the lineman's belt through the D ring in the link below (disregard the bolt plate, it is not used). The D ring goes between the stop knot and the prusik knot. I then attach it with twine to the load bearing 'biner that clips to my saddle. I pull the knot to lengthen the lineman and pull the end of the lineman toward the tree to tighten. The D ring will push the prusik up the lineman belt. The D ring and twine is basically a dirt cheap tender and does nothing except help to move the knot to shorten the lineman belt. It never sees a load or supports any weight.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SmartStraps-Light-Duty-Surface-Mount-D-Ring/3740689

It can get stiff after sustained tension, but still operates one handed. I am going to try a Distel Hitch with some type of tender this summer to see if it works more smoothly. I trust friction knots knowing they can not fail unless they are damaged or tied incorrectly. This piece of mind keeps me relaxed and not wondering/worrying about gear failures while hunting or climbing.

 

[public_land]

and...

I use the muddy lineman's belt with this modification. I Used it this way every hunt this past season ~40 times maybe more.

 

[Jartiam]

Cool. So maybe this isn't as nice as the Ropeman 1, but you can operate that prusik and shorten and lengthen with just one hand (similar to a ropeman or my current strap)?

The only lineman with prusik I've used is the free one that comes with a muddy harness, and I didn't like it at all. Very awkward to use 2 hands in a tree.

Yep. Also, got this off of the Facebook page and it works awesome! Also cost me nothing, already had the strap laying around. Tie a couple of half hitches connecting your main line and carabiner, does the same thing as new tribes contraption..

 

[raisins]

Yep. Also, got this off of the Facebook page and it works awesome! Also cost me nothing, already had the strap laying around. Tie a couple of half hitches connecting your main line and carabiner, does the same thing as new tribes contraption..View attachment 9343

Thanks, but can't tell how that interacts with the prusik from the pic. Does the webbing loop grab the prusik knot as it tries to move backward?

 

[Jartiam]

Yeah, for some reason I couldn’t upload the full photo..
No, the loop just aides in pushing the knot to tighten your belt, to move backwards I just grab the knot and pull back. But still, completely one handed operation. Same concept as public land up above, I just made the d ring out of webbing.