B&C label cell cams unethical

[Robert loper]

Recent announcements that the state of Delaware is banning trail camera use on public land cite the Boone and Crocket clubs ethical stance
Regarding cell cams. Apparently the organization will no longer score bucks killed with the aid of cellular trail cams. So apparently they have drawn a line in the sand differentiating cell cams from other trail cameras. Here is a brief overview, though I’d like to find statements from B and C elaborating their position.

They have also added several other technologies to their ban list including scopes with built on range finders and thermal imaging.

https://www.carolinasportsman.com/hunting/deer-Huntington/boone-hand-crockett-

So how will they keep track of this? Lmao this is so ridiculous that its comical.
who gives two nut sacks about old p/y and B/c scoring anyway.
The whole sytem they have in my opinion makes people make almost unachievable goals.
lmao what a joke. .
They act like a cell camera is going to guarantee a kill.
These clowns are no doubt some sort of committee or council who probably never hunts high pressured properties. Or even hint at all. Lol.
Using any trail cameras can if the time is put in and research is put into the info provided help pattern a deer but, never is even that info ever guaranteed .
you still need to hunt snd hunt to me involves slot of before the shot things then taking a shot.
i use cameras every year and i research very intensely the data i get from them but, rarely does it pan out 100%.
next thing they will ban is mobile hunting and to be honest i have heard rumors that this is where Delaware eventually wants to go.
Its a shame we are losing little things left and right and we font even realize it.

 

[Plebe]

So how will they keep track of this? Lmao this is so ridiculous that its comical....

Probably they'll keep on file the affidavit you sign.

According to the article:

"they’ve always been required to sign an affidavit swearing the hunt was “fair chase.” This means the animal wasn’t inside a high fence, no drugs were used, and the hunter didn’t violate local hunting laws.

With this latest ruling, that fair chase affidavit will also include that no cellular trail cams or range finding scopes were used."

In case you need it:

https://aws.boone-crockett.org/s3fs-public/atoms/files/entryaffidavit_2022_0.pdf

 

[Iron_llama]

So, a bit more than on-your-honor, with an implied mechanism to revoke awards if a witness your social media posts call your honesty (and thereby affidavit) into question.

I'm surprised they've come out against range finding scopes. And I wonder where the line is regarding "used". Private organization can do what they want, but a state game commission outsourcing significant policy changes to these private organizations doesn't sit right with me. Presumably the 12 hunters in Delaware will make their voices heard...

 

[Plebe]

So, a bit more than on-your-honor, with an implied mechanism to revoke awards if a witness your social media posts call your honesty (and thereby affidavit) into question.

I'm surprised they've come out against range finding scopes. And I wonder where the line is regarding "used". Private organization can do what they want, but a state game commission outsourcing significant policy changes to these private organizations doesn't sit right with me. Presumably the 12 hunters in Delaware will make their voices heard...

Trail cameras for recreational use are now banned in state wildlife areas, state forests, and state parks.

DNREC and Delaware’s Department of Agriculture made the move after an extensive review and discussion. The ban is effective immediately.

Pat Emory is the director of DNREC’s Division of Fish and Wildlife. He says there have been complaints about the cameras.

"We started getting some complaints from some of the other hunters out there and individuals who are out there just enjoying and non-consumptive users just enjoying wildlife areas about ownership and exclusive use. They felt there were privacy issues when they're out walking and see these cameras up, and then there was other ones who felt somewhat intimidated when they go into a wooded area or forest area for hunting purposes and planned on going to a certain area for whatever reason and they started seeing a lot of different cameras in different locations," said Emory.

Factors leading to the ban include acknowledgement trail cameras are a technological advancement in hunting and used successfully by many hunters for harvesting deer.

Other reasons for the ban include illegal activities such as cutting and removing vegetation to install cameras, and trail cameras interfering with habitat management and maintenance.

The trail camera ban is only for state lands.

"This ban is only on public lands, state public lands here in Delaware, it has nothing to do with private lands,” said Emory. “So if you're leasing something, own something you certainly are welcome to put cameras up as many as you want."

The ban continues a new trend. Prime Hook and Bombay Hook National Wildlife Refuges already prohibit trail cameras. Five other states also ban recreational-use trail cameras on public land, and several others are considering a ban.

Delaware bans trail cameras for recreational use in state wildlife areas, forests, and parks

Trail cameras for recreational use are now banned in state wildlife areas, state forests, and state parks.

www.delawarepublic.org

.

 

[Jimmy Wallhanger]

There is an argument to be made that getting a cell cam photo sent to you then going out and harvesting that animal muddys "fair chase"

 

[Loopwing]

I think the bigger problem is the desire to have your name in a book. If I kill a B&C or a P&Y it is going on the wall, does it matter if I have a piece of paper to accompany it? Does it come with money? Do I get hunting land? Do I get free gear? People get a little to wrapped up in "my way" is better than your way. Kinda comes full circle with the "outlaw" thread.

 

[Plebe]

I think the bigger problem is the desire to have your name in a book. If I kill a B&C or a P&Y it is going on the wall, does it matter if I have a piece of paper to accompany it? Does it come with money? Do I get hunting land? Do I get free gear? People get a little to wrapped up in "my way" is better than your way. Kinda comes full circle with the "outlaw" thread.

So who's pushing this then. Those in "the book" who used trail cameras to get there or those who didn't? Those who want to get in the book, or those who want to get in the book their way?

 

[Loopwing]

Probably the guys that hunt for the "likes", fair chase, no bait, no cameras. They hunt there "buddies" properties all over that do use cameras, spend thousands on food plots, and ask the buddy where the "yellow brick road" is so they can hunt just to the side of it. We all know the exact scenario that I am talking about. Just go hunt deer and put meat in the freezer.

 

[Tim0712]

All this cell cam nonsense stems from all the big “Hollywood hunters” 90% of every story you read on a nice buck will mention somewhere “thanks to my (name a cell cam)” and it’s all these guys looking for the company to reach out and pad their pockets (if they’re not already). If everyone didn’t have to boast none of this would be an issue. Just like baiting. I know some of you guys live in bait legal states. I don’t and if I did I still wouldn’t. But I’ve come across plenty of bait piles around here and I gaurantee behind every one is a 20 year old who watches YouTube and doesn’t care about law and ethics just wants to kill deer. That’s gonna show true to all these camera bans too people are just gonna get more creative in camouflage and learn to be hush hush. The hunter is no longer better than the computer with all the nonsense that’s been poured into this sport. Everyone should just hunt the old fashioned way and it would be far more enjoyable for everyone.

Edit: yes I run cameras but not for locating deer per say. I use them for inventory on 90% nighttime locations and I just like having the pictures for my son to enjoy

 

[Plebe]

Probably the guys that hunt for the "likes", fair chase, no bait, no cameras. They hunt there "buddies" properties all over that do use cameras, spend thousands on food plots, and ask the buddy where the "yellow brick road" is so they can hunt just to the side of it. We all know the exact scenario that I am talking about. Just go hunt deer and put meat in the freezer.

I don't follow your logic.

 

[Jammintree]

All this cell cam nonsense stems from all the big “Hollywood hunters” 90% of every story you read on a nice buck will mention somewhere “thanks to my (name a cell cam)” and it’s all these guys looking for the company to reach out and pad their pockets (if they’re not already). If everyone didn’t have to boast none of this would be an issue.

I’ve talked to a lot of non hunters and even a lot of casual hunters that truly believe using cameras makes hunting a sure bet, thanks to hunting TV. So I think your point is well made: the perceptions created by the hunting media and advertising (which have become one and the same in too many cases) are really undermining hunting, in so many ways.

 

[Jammintree]

Regarding Delaware's ban, I do personally feel differently about encountering a trail camera in the woods if it’s cellular. There’s something a little bit more intimidating about knowing that the person behind the camera is getting an immediate notification that you’ve triggered their camera. So in addition to questions of fair chase it also does feel more like some claim over that location.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Regarding Delaware's ban, I do personally feel differently about encountering a trail camera in the woods if it’s cellular. There’s something a little bit more intimidating about knowing that the person behind the camera is getting an immediate notification that you’ve triggered their camera. So in addition to questions of fair chase it also does feel more like some claim over that location.

Good point. All the cell camera would need to be like one of those smart doorbells is a speaker where the guy could yell at you "hey, get out of my spot!",

 

[Tim0712]

I’ve talked to a lot of non hunters and even a lot of casual hunters that truly believe using cameras makes hunting a sure bet, thanks to hunting TV. So I think your point is well made: the perceptions created by the hunting media and advertising (which have become one and the same in too many cases) are really undermining hunting, in so many ways.

I’ve never shot a deer within a mile of any single one of my cameras. Maybe the non hunters and casual hunters (which I’ll assume are the guys who go out opening day and 2-3 more times a year) should hear that and maybe somehow put a statistic to it because I bet I’m not alone on that one and if people saw that side of it I guarantee minds would be changed.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

I will say that last year about a week before our Michigan rifle season my buddies an I started having personal encounters with a good buck that we hadn't seen all season before that. On opening morning two guys appeared and set up between my two buddies' rifle blinds essentially trying to cut them off in the area where that buck had been seen. We had never seen these guys or their vehicle during bow season (remember I'm literally living out there in a camper during Nov.) but they were adamant that they were entitled to the area. I had/still have suspicions that they had a cell camera out and were getting pictures of the buck and that was why they were so insisting on setting up right where they did. In the end it didn't matter as one of my buddies managed to kill it on opening day anyway.

 

[sureshotscott]

Fix this problem lickety split just turn off the internet.

 

[woodsdog2]

I’m not sure how I feel about it. Last year was the first season I ever used cell cams. I still was unable to pattern, with any consistency, any buck on the one property I had them on and although I definitely could ascertain greater buck movement at times, the buck I shot was never on the cameras I had out that day. I did have two other shooters on my cell cams that morning but neither of them came by my location. As I’ve written before about this, the only advantage the cell cams gave me was greater patience to stick it out on the actual day I harvested my buck. I do think they can be misused however.

To add to @robertloper’s post on this issue, how is using cell cams any different than people with enough money to buy a 400 acre farm, develop bedding areas and sanctuaries, completely control access overall, ingress and egress at all times, food plots and hunting plots with strategic locations where you’re almost funneling the deer past you no matter what the condition’s with zero pressure etc.,etc, how really is this any more fair chase???? Or how is it any more ethical or more fair chase than the guy with a few cell cams on a property? Really, tell me how there is a tangible fair chase difference with those two scenarios. The extremes notwithstanding. I just think we need to be careful how much we just allow to be taken away.

 

[Slabzilla73]

I’m not sure how I feel about it. Last year was the first season I ever used cell cams. I still was unable to pattern, with any consistency, any buck on the one property I had them on and although I definitely could ascertain greater buck movement at times, the buck I shot was never on the cameras I had out that day. I did have two other shooters on my cell cams that morning but neither of them came by my location. As I’ve written before about this, the only advantage the cell cams gave me was greater patience to stick it out on the actual day I harvested my buck. I do think they can be misused however.

To add to @robertloper’s post on this issue, how is using cell cams any different than people with enough money to buy a 400 acre farm, develop bedding areas and sanctuaries, completely control access overall, ingress and egress at all times, food plots and hunting plots with strategic locations where you’re almost funneling the deer past you no matter what the condition’s with zero pressure etc.,etc, how really is this any more fair chase???? Or how is it any more ethical or more fair chase than the guy with a few cell cams on a property? Really, tell me how there is a tangible fair chase difference with those two scenarios. The extremes notwithstanding. I just think we need to be careful how much we just allow to be taken away.

Thats a great point. I guess the only scenario might be a hunter who has property outback of their home or relatively close and the cell cam lets them know a buck is tending a doe & isnt going far. Maybe if the hunter didnt plan on hunting that morning or whenever, now "oh wait theres a nice one out back" he goes out and shoots one.
Its funny cuz thats the reasoning from my recent research on cell cams. I dont own one. I go to Ohio every year. And everytime I go, I come back & see all the big boys cruising my pops property on the same week Im gone, on my trail cams. My dad is 71 and kinda weak in the hearing. I thought it be nice to call him from Ohio n say " hey pops get in your blind today, been seeing a couple good bucks on camera & go after one."
But just because they are there isnt a guarantee you'll get it.
I think B&C is taking this a lil far IMO.

 

[BTaylor]

Fix this problem lickety split just turn off the internet.

And no Saddle Hunter forum, no thanks.

 

[BTaylor]

I think B&C is taking this a lil far IMO.

I am hopeful that more bans on public ground are in the short term future. Hopefully it will drive a lot of the folks that depend on cams to join leases and not hunt public. Less crowds and less cams on public wont hurt my feelings at all.