Backing up srt repel

[weekender21]

Murphy has thoroughly tested these devices (ascenders and descenders) in the rock climbing world and they are as bulletproof as can be. That is why I recommend them. Go to arborist sites and see what comments professional tree climbers make about friction hitches. When I did I was surprised how widely they vary in performance from slipping to completely locking getting you stuck halfway up the rope. Professionals can deal with these problems while I think newbies could not. I was stuck up a tree a few times with friction hitches and with an ATC in guide mode. I figured out how to get down but gave up on them for that reason.

Different perspectives and differences in opinion no doubt but I guess that’s healthy to the conversation.


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[mattsteg]

Murphy has thoroughly tested these devices (ascenders and descenders) in the rock climbing world and they are as bulletproof as can be. That is why I recommend them. Go to arborist sites and see what comments professional tree climbers make about friction hitches. When I did I was surprised how widely they vary in performance from slipping to completely locking getting you stuck halfway up the rope. Professionals can deal with these problems while I think newbies could not. I was stuck up a tree a few times with friction hitches and with an ATC in guide mode. I figured out how to get down but gave up on them for that reason.

We've literally had a guy in here break the handle off of his ascending/descending device. Also the rock-climbing world is all about having training and generally a partner as well. Most of us are hunting alone...and you're using the bulletproofness of devices we have seen break to suggest additional training is unnecessary?

 

[boyne bowhunter]

IMO it is important to have a backup plan, and a backup plan for the backup plan. Then practice implementing those plans.

For example, If your backup plan for a failure is to use a Munter hitch, you're going to want to be proficient in it if you need to use it. If it's your backup plan then you're calling for it under less than ideal, possibly stressful circumstances. If getting proficient in it means getting professional instruction then by all means do it.

When my handle came off the Safeguard it was already past dark. It didn't concern me because I had two backup plans I had previously practiced, one-sticking down and ATC/prusik. I'm fully comfortable with both of them.

 

[Davis21]

We've literally had a guy in here break the handle off of his ascending/descending device. Also the rock-climbing world is all about having training and generally a partner as well. Most of us are hunting alone...and you're using the bulletproofness of devices we have seen break to suggest additional training is unnecessary?

Which is exactly my point of starting this thread. I’m a hunter, not an arborist or rock climber. I wouldn’t even know where to get the training for those honestly, based on where I live. I was just curious to what people who know about it than I do, do to make sure they are safe. I don’t like single points of failure when my life is possibly on the line. Just

 

[Davis21]

IMO it is important to have a backup plan, and a backup plan for the backup plan. Then practice implementing those plans.

For example, If your backup plan for a failure is to use a Munter hitch, you're going to want to be proficient in it if you need to use it. If it's your backup plan then you're calling for it under less than ideal, possibly stressful circumstances. If getting proficient in it means getting professional instruction then by all means do it.

When my handle came off the Safeguard it was already past dark. It didn't concern me because I had two backup plans I had previously practiced, one-sticking down and ATC/prusik. I'm fully comfortable with both of them.

Thank you for your thoughts. I actually have watched your videos several times. Appreciate em!

 

[bj139]

We've literally had a guy in here break the handle off of his ascending/descending device. Also the rock-climbing world is all about having training and generally a partner as well. Most of us are hunting alone...and you're using the bulletproofness of devices we have seen break to suggest additional training is unnecessary?

I never said training was unnecessary. Self-taught through internet training sites can work. "Bulletproof as can be" means they are thoroughly tested by far greater numbers of rock climbers than tree climbers let alone saddlehunters. Naturally if you shoot them with a bullet they will fail. Breaking off a handle did not send anyone plummeting to the ground, a safer mode of failure.

 

[bj139]

Which is exactly my point of starting this thread. I’m a hunter, not an arborist or rock climber. I wouldn’t even know where to get the training for those honestly, based on where I live. I was just curious to what people who know about it than I do, do to make sure they are safe. I don’t like single points of failure when my life is possibly on the line. Just

If you climb sticks and don't ascend the rope you probably can't do this with the equipment you have but I ascend AND descend a foot at a time while leaving my ascender AND descender connected to the rope and both also connected to my bridge. When descending, my objective is to be standing on the ground without injured ankles or knees from hitting the ground too hard, so slow and steady is what I aim for. If my belay device falls apart, the Petzl ascender will support me through a sling attached to my bridge. My single bridge has no redundancy so is the weak point in my system.

 

[Bourdeau]

I have always been an advocate for newbies taking some climbing training for several reasons, 1. No Certified Climb Instructor would ever let you on a rope without at the least showing you how to foot lock a rope to stay in place or let yourself down.....2. Munter hitch would be my go to for equipment failure( ie: broken descending device, dropped device) I always have a spare carabiner(on my bridge/saddle not in some backpack compartment that you already lowered/dropped to the ground).

 

[mattsteg]

I never said training was unnecessary. Self-taught through internet training sites can work. "Bulletproof as can be" means they are thoroughly tested by far greater numbers of rock climbers than tree climbers let alone saddlehunters. Naturally if you shoot them with a bullet they will fail. Breaking off a handle did not send anyone plummeting to the ground, a safer mode of failure.

You specifically cited "bullletproof" devices as a way to prevent being stuck halfway up a tree, and being stuck halfway up a tree as something newbies would be unlikely to be prepared for...

And even in our much-smaller-than-climbing community here I can cite at least one guy who would have been stuck up in a tree if not for having a backup plan.

Education is the answer as there are no bulletproof devices.

 

[bj139]

You specifically cited "bullletproof" devices as a way to prevent being stuck halfway up a tree, and being stuck halfway up a tree as something newbies would be unlikely to be prepared for...

And even in our much-smaller-than-climbing community here I can cite at least one guy who would have been stuck up in a tree if not for having a backup plan.

Education is the answer as there are no bulletproof devices.

You are right.

 

[Bourdeau]

In answer to your question (another question)what device are you using to descend the rope? I can only show you what I use for a backup to a Madrock Safeguard...the reason I put the backup above the Safeguard on the load side of the rope is: If you use it below the Madrock on the tag end and suck it into the device it does nothing but slip. Not sure how this auto block works if sucked into an ATC device I don't use that device!

This is a sterling hollow block tied in a Klemheist knot. The photo does not show it but I connect it to my saddle via a runner and a Carabiner. I hold the tag end(the non load end of the rope) up to the Klemheist knot and pay out rope and release the knot at the same time( it takes practice and a gloved hand). Note: My instructor said we are all taking risks climbing a tree to hunt ... but she also said "why would you want to shoot a deer". I have descended 30 feet with just the autoblock to see how safe it is go slow, wear gloves, try it near the ground a lot before using any device.

 

[Davis21]

In answer to your question (another question)what device are you using to descend the rope? I can only show you what I use for a backup to a Madrock Safeguard...the reason I put the backup above the Safeguard on the load side of the rope is: If you use it below the Madrock on the tag end and suck it into the device it does nothing but slip. Not sure how this auto block works if sucked into an ATC device I don't use that device!
View attachment 21496
This is a sterling hollow block tied in a Klemheist knot. The photo does not show it but I connect it to my saddle via a runner and a Carabiner. I hold the tag end(the non load end of the rope) up to the Klemheist knot and pay out rope and release the knot at the same time( it takes practice and a gloved hand). Note: My instructor said we are all taking risks climbing a tree to hunt ... but she also said "why would you want to shoot a deer". I have descended 30 feet with just the autoblock to see how safe it is go slow, wear gloves, try it near the ground a lot before using any device.

Awesome thanks!

 

[robstewart]

I guess my main question is what would be the best way to let myself down if I got half way down and device quite working for what ever reason and I’m hanging on side of tree?

I carry a foot loop, caribiner, and tribloc ascender on me when rappelling as I use it to SRT up. Let's say something binds up bad and I'm hanging from my harness. I would simply attach the foot loop above my RCH like I'm going to use it to ascend. I'd then add a caribiner and prusik connecting me to the rope from my RCH. Next stand in the foot loop and push the prusik up to take the weight. Remove the messed up rappel device and fix it then reverse the process.

If you can't fix the rappel device issue you can do a couple things. First, you might be able to rap down with the prusik. Depends on how grippy it is. If that doesn't work you can come down using the foot loop to take the weight, slide the prusik down, then slide the foot loop down and so on.

I recommend carrying a couple caribiners and a couple pre-made prusik loops or similar and getting to know how to use them in various ways.

 

[robstewart]

In answer to your question (another question)what device are you using to descend the rope? I can only show you what I use for a backup to a Madrock Safeguard...the reason I put the backup above the Safeguard on the load side of the rope is: If you use it below the Madrock on the tag end and suck it into the device it does nothing but slip. Not sure how this auto block works if sucked into an ATC device I don't use that device!

When using an autoblock setup below a safeguard or atc you put some sort of extension between your RCH and the device. I have an 8" webbing loop that allows me to ensure separation. I prefer to place it below with my figure 8 or ATC but I've yet to try a field test with my new safeguard.