• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Backing up your rappel system.

Shapeshifter

Shapeshifter

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
427
I watched this on the tube the other night. Have you guys seen this video? If so what do you think? Agree or disagree. This season I'm using the the Cornell hitch with a tending small carabiner. Last year before I found this method I would use this knot tying method like he shows in this video while I rappeled and stopped to pull my sticks of the tree on the way down.
 
Shapeshifter said:
I watched this on the tube the other night. Have you guys seen this video? If so what do you think? Agree or disagree. This season I'm using the the Cornell hitch with a tending small carabiner. Last year before I found this method I would use this knot tying method like he shows in this video while I rappeled and stopped to pull my sticks of the tree on the way down.
Click to expand...

Actually it’s a very good video and addresses one of the major issues we face. We look at a device from our perspective of use, while the manufacturer sees it and has designed it for a different perspective of use. This causes some confusion between us and them, such as the issue of backing up a Safaguard. Of course, from their perspective you would have to be very careful how you backed it up due to the intended use. Yes, the device is perfectly safe for us to use how we are using it as essentially a progress capture/hold/rappel device. In that context due to the great difference in how it is loaded, backing up is feasible and different.

For those worried about it, the basic hard lock would be an excellent method to lock it off, especially at hunting height. I have played around with using a Klemheist below the device and it works great for descending, you just have to make sure you have enough of a distance so that it CANNOT get drawn up to the device. If so, it could possibly impede the locking action, although it wouldn’t be as likely as it would be with say a figure-8 or ATC if the backup hitch gets drawn up to them. I agree with him wholeheartedly, I am not a fan of backing up any rappel device above the device. There are myriads of reasons, one of the main one is how that friction hitch would have to hold full body weight, thus causing it to lock down very tightly and with many hitches that makes them very difficult to unlock. Putting the hitch below the device on the brake end causes it to only have to hold as much weight as your braking hand would have in the first place, not nearly full body weight.
 
I ordered a Safeguard after seeing that same video a week ago. Valuable information. He has a lot of great videos.
 
Last edited:
When I was rappelling I used a Figure 8 and backed it up with a prusik below the Figure 8. It was a simple setup that was quick and easy to use. :)

I have since gotten away from roping techniques and went back to using climbing sticks. It was fun, I enjoyed working with it, but I'm all about hunting and try to spend more time hunting and the least amount of time with what all it takes to get into and out of a tree. :cool:
Even with "one-sticking" I noticed that I was spending more time at the base of the tree wrapping up ropes, strings, etc., than I would for packing up 3 climbing sticks and getting outta there. :rolleyes:

Everyone has their favorite ascending and descending methods. It's all good....just be safe! :)
 
Problem with tying the knots off in the first two methods is if you do hit the knots, its a pain in the butt to get the knots back loose if you can't unload the rope. Doesn't madrock warn against doing those two methods?

Im switching over to the half-line system here soon but I always backed up my grigri using the prussic(in my case the schwabish) hitch above the device. Really wasnt that much of a problem trying to rappel with the hitch in place. Using an eye-to-eye hitch cord made it easier to unhook one eye and remove the hitch before coming down if you didnt want to fool with the grabbing the hitch and pulling the lever.
 
Last edited:
SNIPERBBB said:
Problem with tying the knots off in the first two methods is if you do hit the knots, its a pain in the butt to get the knots back loose if you can't take unload the rope. Doesn't madrock warn against doing those two methods?

Im switching over to the half-line system here soon but I always backed up my grigri using the prussic(in my case the schwabish) hitch above the device. Really wasnt that much of a problem trying to rappel with the hitch in place. Using an eye-to-eye hitch cord made it easier to unhook one eye and remove the hitch before coming down if you didnt want to fool with the grabbing the hitch and pulling the lever.
Click to expand...
It's super easy to tend your hitch above your device with a small carabiner attached to to short piece paracord. I like using the Cornell hitch because it very easy to break under load. The guys from Swamp and Stomp and Wood Saddles have nice videos on You Tube using this method.
 
I almost think he purposely made his hitch above the device too far away in this video. When I come down, I squash the hitch down right on top of my grigi. I can basically handle both the hitch and the grigi with one hand.
 
I wouldnt worry about the hitch locking up on you either. Really the only reason I back up the grigri to start with is when I am at height and im not coming off the climb line is to keep the grigi from slipping when im standing on the platform. Most times I am using my tether either in conjuction with the climb rope or completely coming off the climb line so the hitch above is never really going to take any weight and the schwabish hits releases fairly easy if it does lock up.
 
SNIPERBBB said:
Problem with tying the knots off in the first two methods is if you do hit the knots, its a pain in the butt to get the knots back loose if you can't unload the rope.
Click to expand...

he really should use an alpine butterfly instead of that bight he used. they are quick and easy to tie and are easy to untie even after being weighted
 
I don't use a device so i can't really talk about that but I use a hitch about as a backup so I do know a little.....the little pull cord and biner is for when and if the hitch does bind up...if ur little.biner is the right size and shape u pull hard and that upper hitch breaks fairly easily. U do need to experiment with different hitches to find which 1 works the best with whatever rope u using. At our saddle get together women and kids were able to work it correctly first time trying so no excuse for that guy to say it's cumbersome or whatever excuse he gave
 
Weldabeast said:
I don't use a device so i can't really talk about that but I use a hitch about as a backup so I do know a little.....the little pull cord and biner is for when and if the hitch does bind up...if ur little.biner is the right size and shape u pull hard and that upper hitch breaks fairly easily. U do need to experiment with different hitches to find which 1 works the best with whatever rope u using. At our saddle get together women and kids were able to work it correctly first time trying so no excuse for that guy to say it's cumbersome or whatever excuse he gave
Click to expand...
Yep, awkwardness should not be a reason to not do something safety related unless it could lead to more serious safety issues if you do it wrong or it breaks. Its not a race.
 
Hey , how many of you guys are also using this hitch above the device when you are climbing and just letting your madrock or gri gri tend the hitch as you climb?
 
I was thinking about doing this myself also, probably good safety practice. That way you are always backed up the entire time.
 
www.climbing.com

Rappelling Is Climbing's Most Dangerous Activity. Here's How To Make It Safer.

Learn this reliable system, which includes a backup and basic rope-ascent skills, to make your rappelling safer.
www.climbing.com www.climbing.com

I use a Figure-8 on a sling/long bridge above my climbing hitch on my belay loop/short bridge. From what I can tell - I'm not a rock climber - this setup seems pretty standard among rock climbers so I figured it's good enough for me. My sling is just long enough to give me about 6" clearance above my friction hitch, thereby preventing any metal-on-metal noise.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top