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Be a ghost or try and lure the deer in?

Stykbow1

Well-Known Member
Vendor Rep
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
454
Location
New Jersey
Hey guys,

This has been a topic between my buddies and I for a while now and wanted to get others opinions on the subject when trying to hunt bucks especially mature bucks do you think it's better to be a ghost on stand or try and lure them in with scents, rattling, or grunting? I know myself I've had mixed results with using scents, rattling, grunting, or bleating and mostly with younger bucks. I have talked with others that have had pretty good results by using these methods I'm just curious how well others have faired with a more interactive approach.

Roger
 
Take this for what its worth, because I'm not exactly a stone cold big buck killer. In the last couple of years my mature buck sightings have gone up considerably, and I have been doing less and less rattling and grunting. I still carry a grunt tube to use on those deer that I see that are out of range, but I'm getting to be a lot more of a ghost style hunter. I would say understanding how terrain affects deer movement has done much more for me than calls and scents. That said I know it works for some people in some areas.
 
I haven't had good luck with grunting and rattling, but I have had two rut crazed nice bucks come in lip curling to scrapes that I doctored up.....but who knows, maybe a hot doe was there right before I dumped a half bottle of golden estrous in them.
 
I do the same thing every year and it works every year. I find my target via trail cam i check cam every 2 weeks at noon to figure him out. I do NOT dare hunt the area till first week of november. I wait for a day the wind is blowing directly to the deers bedroom. I said to the deer. I slip in a hour b4 light and get at least 35ft up tree. I bring with me frozen ripe doe tarsels and pee i collected from year b4 or fresh if i can get from butcher. When shooting light hits i lower the ripe glands with a rope and break out the can call and grunt. If he is in the bed he hears the comotion and smells the doe glands and doesnt smell me cuz i am above his nose he will come. I love to hunt but i love sealing the deal on my target deer more. So this means i hunt less. I just stay away till the time is right. Just what works for me. I am already collecting those preciouse gland from the butcher for next year. The ones that most people throw in the garbage with the carcass. Yeah them.
 
I prefer to be the ghost! I think anything outside their normal daily routine makes them suspicious or puts them on high alert. During the rut its a different story and anything can happen.
 
rr79 said:
I do the same thing every year and it works every year. I find my target via trail cam i check cam every 2 weeks at noon to figure him out. I do NOT dare hunt the area till first week of november. I wait for a day the wind is blowing directly to the deers bedroom. I said to the deer. I slip in a hour b4 light and get at least 35ft up tree. I bring with me frozen ripe doe tarsels and pee i collected from year b4 or fresh if i can get from butcher. When shooting light hits i lower the ripe glands with a rope and break out the can call and grunt. If he is in the bed he hears the comotion and smells the doe glands and doesnt smell me cuz i am above his nose he will come. I love to hunt but i love sealing the deal on my target deer more. So this means i hunt less. I just stay away till the time is right. Just what works for me. I am already collecting those preciouse gland from the butcher for next year. The ones that most people throw in the garbage with the carcass. Yeah them.

RR79 do you mean that everytime you've used this system you've killed the target deer or that you've had the target deer respond favorably to the scent and calling? If you've killed the deer you've targeted everytime that is a very impressive achievement indeed and I can understand why you keep doing it. I have to say I rarely have the deer react the same way to any of the calling, scents, or rattling in the areas that I hunt.

Roger
 
Well now not every single time i go hunt do i kill my target buck. That would be nice. But i almost always get him and thats usually how he falls. Wind in the deers face and the smells of a real doe. Not some stuff bottled by a guy named paco. Works for me.
 
rr79 said:
Well now not every single time i go hunt do i kill my target buck. That would be nice. But i almost always get him and thats usually how he falls. Wind in the deers face and the smells of a real doe. Not some stuff bottled by a guy named paco. Works for me.

rr79,

How do you get that much urine? Most of the deer that are brought to the butchers by me are already field dressed so it's not possible to get any urine other than the deer you take yourself. Years ago when Legend lures was still in business up in upstate NY they used to collect urine from wild deer buy feeding them in an enclosed area with tarps on the floor. The few times we stopped there to feed the deer you could smell that feeding and collection area pretty well, especially, on those warm days. One of the workers, I don't think his name was Paco, told me they had to strain the urine because of all the dirt and stuff that the deer tracked in before they could store it. I'm sure that the real thing works better than store bought especially if it's a deer from the same area but I didn't realize you could store it or freeze it, I thought I read somewhere that over time it breaks down, but I can't remember for sure. Glad this system is working for you and thanks for sharing maybe someone else will be able to use it successfully this season or next.

Roger
 
The urin is a plus. I dont get that from butcher. I get that when myself or one of my buddies kills a deer any deer. I carry a large vile in my pack. I get the piss sack out and empty it. Take home and devide it up and freeze in bags. I get doe glands from butcher or friends. I dont kill any doe this time of year when they are ripe. Take a bag of pee out freezer nd a gland or two. Put gland in with pee and by the time you drive to your spot it will be defrosted. Shake it up and bammm! Buck lure. Can even strap gland on your boot for walk in. Seems like lotta work bur irs not. I vaccume pack the glands and they stay pretty stinky the nxt season. The glands sre the thing. The pee is just a plus.
 
rr79,

Ok that is kind of what I figured a liitle work on your part but the results are worth it. I really like the idea of vaccuum packing the tarsals keeps them fresh and clean. It's funny my Uncle Bill told me way back in the 70's they used to carry them when they deer hunted in PA that was their cover scent and he gave me his old Johnson red and black check wool hunting jacket and pants I found a tarsal gland in the pocket! :mrgreen: All in all I like the system all natural, Paco free, and it sounds like it's very effective I will have to give it a try. Thanks!!! :D

Roger
 
Give it a try. The first week of nov bucks are in the wind cruisin for doe. Those glands are the smell of a doe. Couple calls and maybe a branch shake. I hunt right on the edge of the bed and have good luck with it. Guess results would depend on where and how ya hunt.
 
I am no big buck killer either, but have experimented heavily with rattling, calls, and scents in Michigan for a few seasons now, with dissappointing to mixed results at best. Here are my observations:

Rattling
The only deer I have ever had respond to a rattle was a single spike. I have tried rattling near bedding areas and on the edges of crop fields where I know deer are bedding (not necessarily big bucks). I have also tried blind rattling at various times of the day, and at various intensities. I have, with the exception of the spike, never had a buck visibly come within range of my rattling.

Grunt + Can Calls
I have used grunts calls with relative success to reel in does and yearling deer. I use a soft, rubberized plastic grunt tube made by Woods Wise called the 'hot mama', and I also have a fawn call tube by the same company. While the fawn tube is rarely used, I have, when I see a matriarch doe with fawns and want to get their attention, will let out a few fawn bleats (not distressing bleats) followed up by a couple of softer doe grunts to create a light and VERY brief chatter. A couple of fawn and doe bleats at most. I have done this on a number of occasions to get fawns and matriarch does within range.

I have also used my doe soft grunt tube to call to lone does and bucks. They have responded very positively to the right tone and intensity of soft grunt, generally a higher-toned grunt that is very brief (less than a second) in 2-3 grunt sequences, spaced 1-2 seconds apart.

I have also used an 'estrous' can call that has reeled in both does and yearling bucks. I have seen does just as curious about a can bleats as yearling bucks.

I used to have a Primos Buck Roar grunt tube. I have used it on occasion, but my general feeling was that it was too loud and aggressive for the deer in the areas I hunt, and eventually sold it with some other hunting gear.

Scents
I have had little to no success using artificial or store-bought urine-based scents and attractants, such as doe-p, buck-p, or estrous urine. I have used a golden estrous scent wick recently and had a group of does and fawns downwind of me, scent checking heavily, but did not bust me or spook. But they did not come in downwind of the scent trail, and only scent checked when they got downwind of the scent wick. The only other result I have had from urine-based scent is also using an estrous scent wick which a button buck literally walked right up, stood up on his hind quarters and rubbed his nose on the scent wick.

I have also tried using the dead down wind 'deer herd' scent stick. I have never witnessed deer responding to this scent, or following a scent trail using this scent.

Summary
My general observations is that all of the above do have some effect on younger deer. A decent soft grunt tube can be very helpful in getting does close, which in turn can help get bucks close. I have not witnessed any of the above having any visible effect on mature deer.

This year I also decided I would try a more natural route - I claimed the rear tarsal glands off the estrous doe my cousin shot last weekend. How do I know she was in estrous? Simple. She was being chased by a buck, who was also whacked by me cousin. I stored them in a ziplock freezer bag, and when I got home I put them in seperate freezer bags, tried to squeeze as much air out as possible, and then put them back in the freezer. I plan on going out to hunt and trying them over the next few weeks. I'll report back with results.
 
d rek,

It seems to be about the same for me mixed results on mostly immature deer and the bigs we're trying to target seem to know that it's not the real deal and either don't come in or ignore it all together. Yet other people aside from rr79, whose approach seems pretty unique, tell me they have good results using these methods. I know myself that I've called in all kinds of spikes and little crotch horns with the grunt tube and can but only once did I bring in a real bruiser. I rattled and called him in to about 18 yards but my brother choosing to sit in front of the brush got pinned down by the big eight point and couldn't draw, I was hidden behind some laurels and all I could do was watch, the buck slowly walked away until my brother tried to draw on him and he bolted. As he was trying to circle us to get our wind I again used the grunt tube to lure him in but this time he stayed in the thick brush as he made his way around us and each time I grunted he would stop and look. This went on for about 10 minutes until he gave us a small window and my brother tried to draw on him again but as soon as he sat up to shoot the buck finally had enough and snorted and bound away snorting with each bound. It was exciting but not very productive and I always wondered if my brother had been a little better hidden would we have had success or still failed to get a shot.

Roger
 
Stykbow1 said:
d rek,

It seems to be about the same for me mixed results on mostly immature deer and the bigs we're trying to target seem to know that it's not the real deal and either don't come in or ignore it all together. Yet other people aside from rr79, whose approach seems pretty unique, tell me they have good results using these methods. I know myself that I've called in all kinds of spikes and little crotch horns with the grunt tube and can but only once did I bring in a real bruiser. I rattled and called him in to about 18 yards but my brother choosing to sit in front of the brush got pinned down by the big eight point and couldn't draw, I was hidden behind some laurels and all I could do was watch, the buck slowly walked away until my brother tried to draw on him and he bolted. As he was trying to circle us to get our wind I again used the grunt tube to lure him in but this time he stayed in the thick brush as he made his way around us and each time I grunted he would stop and look. This went on for about 10 minutes until he gave us a small window and my brother tried to draw on him again but as soon as he sat up to shoot the buck finally had enough and snorted and bound away snorting with each bound. It was exciting but not very productive and I always wondered if my brother had been a little better hidden would we have had success or still failed to get a shot.

Roger

I think a lot of it has to do with hunting pressure. I live and hunt exclusively in Michigan - one of the most heavily pressured hunting states on the map. I know several other hunters who engage in a lot of frivolous tactics throughout the season ie: excessive blind calling and copious amounts of artificial attractants and scents. I cannot honestly believe that a mature deer - and even some immature- would be fooled by these tactics. That is why I have tried to use them very very sparingly this season. My rule has been To only use these tactics if I have confirmation of deer in the area, either by trail cam pattern or visible day of hunt sightings.


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I think there's a time for every method, and I do use the "ghost method" when I think it's called for. However, I have tremendous confidence in calling. I've called in a LOT LOT LOT of deer over the years. Thankfully I just kind of have a knack for it. Because without it, I probably wouldn't kill many bucks.

It's my main method of hunting. Now if only I could put a tag on all of the mature bucks I've called into range, I'd be John Eberhart. lol But I usually manage to screw something up, like misjudge the yardage or get caught on the wrong side of the tree, etc. Putting them in range is not usually a problem, putting them on the ground is.

Just so we are all on the same page, I can count on one hand how many of the bucks I called in were true GIANTS (150"+). What I'm mainly talking about is solid 3-4 year old bucks that are "slammes" on public land. Like most or all of you, I hunt mostly heavily pressured public land, but I always try to find the odd spots that most people overlook. Which doesn't always mean a butt breaking hump.

An example of my "unorthodox spots" is this: I hunted and called in a really big ten pointer no more than 20 yards from where everyone parks their car at a WMA. Buck didn't even come from the WMA, he came from across the street. Of course I couldn't get a shot as light was fading and I didn't feel good about it, but I called him into 20 yards along with 5 other bucks that came in before he did. I've had people shake their heads when they see where I setup. Who cares, the deer don't expect hunters in these idiotic spots either. lol

Now I know a lot of people don't like "blind calling", but I do a ton of it. It's one of the reasons I hunt so many different spots throughout a season. I rarely hunt the same tree more than twice and I hunt quite a bit most years. I do have spots that I will hunt multiple times, but they aren't typically big buck spots, or they are so easy to enter and exit without alerting animals that I can get away with it, I also won't really ever call at these locations.

I know that deer come to investigate these sounds long after we leave, and what are they going to find? Human scent. So any time I do a major calling sequence in a spot, that spot is usually retired for at the very least a couple of weeks, if not the rest of the season. I also use that delayed response to my advantage. You'd be surprised at how many mature bucks show up to investigate that morning rattling sequence an hour or more after you do it. Or even later around noon to 3 pm. HOURS AFTER you do it here they come, still very suspicious and cautiously, but they're looking for information about the fight they heard.

Funny thing is too, I don't usually call in small bucks. I mean, occasionally I get them to come in too, the real aggressive lil buggers that think they are bigger and badder than they are, but usually the way I call scares the young 'uns off.

I've also had the wonderful opportunity to hear a lot of real calling, between wild deer and pen deer, because of this, I feel like I can replicate their sounds extremely accurately. I don't actually like a lot of the calls on the market either, so I've learned to make most sounds with my mouth, but I also use manufactured calls for more volume, but I tune them and adjust them to my liking, they almost never come out of a package sounding the way I want them to.

Rattling is actually one of my favorites for bringing in mature bucks too. But I don't do the "tickle the antlers together"...I do "I'm gonna bleeping kill you, this is my turf" fights and I act out the entire thing over the course of an hour or more. I won't go into everything I do, because if any of you hunt near me, I'll be screwed...lol.....But my advice for calling is to really immerse yourself in what is supposed to be happening. I imagine myself as an actor trying to put on the performance of a lifetime. I imagine how the whole situation might play out....I get really into it and only do things when I'm confident in it.

You guys got me thinking now, and out of all the bucks I've shot, I can only remember three that I didn't call in, there might be another one or two that I'm forgetting, but I don't think so. Like I said, it's something I greatly rely on for getting bucks in range.

I understand it doesn't work for a lot of people though, so if you think it will hurt your chances (and it certainly can), be as ghostly as possible. I actually think the ghost method is probably better, but I usually just can't help myself.

Either way, good luck out there!
 
That tarsal gland off a doe is one of the deadliest tactics for killing deer in general.

If you get a deer that is interested in finding another deer its almost not fair. Im using it more as something for them to smell other than me. I know a lot of internet killers will tell you that you cant fool a deers nose. Sometimes that's true, but if they have no reason to be on high alert and come across another deer they can be pretty single minded and forget about survival. That goes for doe and bucks alike.

As for calls Ive killed deer with every tactic imaginable. What I prefer is a deer that I can see and judge their mood before I do anything. Most of the time if they don't respond in some sort of way the didn't hear you to start with.

With all that being said I prefer the ghost method above all others. I'll not use a commercial deer scent ever again. Seen to many bad reactions. Almost always from shooters. Can it work sure. Id rather place my bet on me putting the stand where it belongs to start with.

One big thing about pulling deer into shooting range with calls is you need to make it inconvenient for them to get behind you.
Water is by far the best followed by a steep bluff, open field you get what Im saying.

They are a lot like a turkey. When they hear you they know almost exactly where it came from so stop calling then and let their curiosity get them killed.
 
Totally agree 210% with everything you just said Rg!

One thing I'll add to that is not only make it difficult to get downwind/behind you, but also make it very difficult to see where this other deer is. (unless you use a decoy which I've had good success with, but it's also screwed me a couple times)....

If they hear bucks fighting or doe bleats whatever the case may be, but they can clearly see that there are no deer there, you better believe they aren't coming, that's when they "hang up" out of range. Yeah their looking for the deer and it should be visible and isn't. You need some kind of thick stuff or terrain feature right near/under you that could be hiding this other "deer".
 
Another thing I'll add about doe groups is if you bump them out of an area but they don't smell you and aren't sure what you were there is a very good chance they come back sometimes pretty quick.

If that group splits I'll bet money somebodys coming back. Only time it gets unreliable is when there's quit a bit of pressure on them.

Ive got to where I carry the grunt tube in an accessible pocket and as soon as I make contact I'll just start in on some easy grunts. More than once Ive wacked a nosey nanny that got confused.

I like shooting big deer but Im a deer hunter first until I get enough in the freezer.
 
Absolutely agree!

I learned that a long time ago as an idiot kid wandering the woods with a bow and barely a clue. LOL

I would bump deer and then think to myself, well this must be a good spot. Sit down, wait...Deer come back. Shoot deer, wait for my ride. Eventually I caught on and started doing it on purpose. lol

I've never been opposed to oddball tactics or thinking outside the norm. If it seems like there's the slightest possibility for it to work, try it. If other people think it's crazy, try it twice. :lol:
 
Totally depends on the number of mature bucks in an area and especially the amount and type of hunting pressure. Heavy consequential hunting pressure affects everything to do with daytime mature buck movements more than any other aspect. In areas with minimal pressure and lots of mature bucks, I've found rattling to work best. In heavily pressured areas with minimal mature bucks, being a ghost as you refer to it, works best if your in the right type of location at the right time of day and season.
 
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