Best advice early rut

[Kurt]

How do I post the map afterwards?

 

[shwacker]

How do I post the map afterwards?

If you do a screenshot then on iPhone you can edit the pic with markup, make your marks then save. Then just upload the pic as usual.


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[Allegheny Tom]

How do you do a screen shot? I did the rest and actually had a half dozen spots I'd marked but they didn't stick.

Do you have a Mac or Microsoft computer? With a Mac, I hold "shift, command, and the number 4". Then a type of cursor shows. Left click and swipe the cursor over the screen. The shot will land on the desk top. Drag it to your post.
With windows 10, click on microsoft icon (bottom left corner) and scroll down to "Snip and sketch". Click on it and follow instructions.

 

[cmcclain88]

Hey, got one more? How bout a prevailing west, we do get the that time of year and it usually runs wsw or wnw.

Living about 15 miles west of the location in question I would make sure that the majority of your setups are for a primarily west wind. Most of early November for the past three year have had west or southwest wind from what I logged. Hope that helps


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[Allegheny Tom]

Living about 15 miles west of the location in question I would make sure that the majority of your setups are for a primarily west wind. Most of early November for the past three year have had west or southwest wind from what I logged. Hope that helps


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True, but keep in mind that a west PREVAILING wind doesnt always mean a west SURFACE wind.
Thats one of the challenges in hunting this type of terrain.
Guys that hunt only flat land have it easier when it comes to wind predicting.

 

[cmcclain88]

True, but keep in mind that a west PREVAILING wind doesnt always mean a west SURFACE wind.
Thats one of the challenges in hunting this type of terrain.
Guys that hunt only flat land have it easier when it comes to wind predicting.

I agree 100%, that is why I log wind direction from my stand location. Weather man is 50/50, which isn’t bad for them.


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[Allegheny Tom]

I agree 100%, that is why I log wind direction from my stand location. Weather man is 50/50, which isn’t bad for them.


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When it comes to the PREVAILING wind, the weather predictions are usually pretty darn close.
But when it comes to SURFACE wind (which is what effects our hunting), no app or weather man can predict wind in every nook and cranny of the landscape. Only we can make those observations of specific locations on specific properties.
The terms prevailing wind and surface wind is often used interchangeably and that a mistake. Prevailing wind effects surface wind, but many times they aren't the same. They are often 180 degrees out of phase.

 

[dalton916]

When it comes to the PREVAILING wind, the weather predictions are usually pretty darn close.
But when it comes to SURFACE wind (which is what effects our hunting), no app or weather man can predict wind in every nook and cranny of the landscape. Only we can make those observations of specific locations on specific properties.
The terms prevailing wind and surface wind is often used interchangeably and that a mistake. Prevailing wind effects surface wind, but many times they aren't the same. They are often 180 degrees out of phase.

True, but when you’re in NM and the land is in OH knowing the prevailing wind will let you make a more educated guess of what the wind is going to be doing and the ground.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

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It seems like I may have cracked this nut some. Not perfectly but I put my # 1 stand site on the map. I'm using a Samsung Chromebook and I figured out how to post. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I have work but I'll get back to this and mark my other pics. Thanks Tom,and swacker for the technical help.

Good job. Ha, I'm not exactly the best person to help with computer stuff. I assume there is a more conventional way to attach those images than how I described it.
BTW, just my opinion, but I think the spot you placed your pin would usually have some difficult wind. Looks to me like the only stable wind direction for a stand down in that particular drainage would be a NNE.

 

[Mattyq2402]

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It seems like I may have cracked this nut some. Not perfectly but I put my # 1 stand site on the map. I'm using a Samsung Chromebook and I figured out how to post. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I have work but I'll get back to this and mark my other pics. Thanks Tom,and swacker for the technical help.

I was looking at this exact spot last night. Thinking with the right wind in the evening you could get thermals to drop in that cut and follow it. Glad you got it working!

 

[Allegheny Tom]

True, but when you’re in NM and the land is in OH knowing the prevailing wind will let you make a more educated guess of what the wind is going to be doing and the ground.

Most definitely.

I'm not saying to ignore prevailing wind. I'm saying a hunter needs to know how the terrain in a given micro location will effect the prevailing wind.
Whether the hunter is 2,000 miles away, or 200 yards away at the parking spot, he needs to know what the surface wind will be at his stand site, based on the prevailing wind. Its not always easy to predict surface wind. Just the slightest change in the angle or speed in prevailing wind can completely change surface wind. My wind predictions are not always correct, but I can usually understand the reasons why my predictions were wrong. I used to sit in the tree in total bewilderment as to why the surface wind seemed to change constantly. It's much less frustrating when I learned to understand the reasons for unstable wind. It usually comes down to choosing a stand in the wrong terrain that day.
Never ignore prevailing wind, and never assume that surface wind will coincide with prevailing wind.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I was looking at this exact spot last night. Thinking with the right wind in the evening you could get thermals to drop in that cut and follow it. Glad you got it working!

Yes, but it will be a short term stand...it will work early in the morning before sun up when thermals are still falling, and it will work after sun set when thermals begin to fall. Those locations can work. But if you hunt all day, or at least well into the day, you are gonna have some swirling winds.
I see more buck movement (during the rut) during later morning than I see during the classic " dusk and dawn" periods.

 

[Kurt]

Good job. Ha, I'm not exactly the best person to help with computer stuff. I assume there is a more conventional way to attach those images than how I described it.
BTW, just my opinion, but I think the spot you placed your pin would usually have some difficult wind. Looks to me like the only stable wind direction for a stand down in that particular drainage would be a NNE.

I'd sit this stand in the evening on a N,NE, or a crossing NNW wind. 60-80 yds off the corner. It may push you into the draw some but I wouldn't give up the top completely. Not sure how open or wide it gets towards the end of the draw. Boots on the ground. Lookin to get down wind on the trail just off the top. To answer some of your questions; I would hunt the edges of the cover to start. As sign or sightings dictate I'd move closer. I have roads and gravel driveways that I take the time to walk to see where they may be crossing.This also allows me to hunt close to the roads so I don't have to always penetrate the area so deep. If you have ag on the other side of the road I'd check to see if you can find where they're crossing. As your hunt nears it's end the ability to be aggressive increases, including (hill popping)spot and stalk(scouting). More to follow.

 

[Kurt]

Most definitely.

I'm not saying to ignore prevailing wind. I'm saying a hunter needs to know how the terrain in a given micro location will effect the prevailing wind.
Whether the hunter is 2,000 miles away, or 200 yards away at the parking spot, he needs to know what the surface wind will be at his stand site, based on the prevailing wind. Its not always easy to predict surface wind. Just the slightest change in the angle or speed in prevailing wind can completely change surface wind. My wind predictions are not always correct, but I can usually understand the reasons why my predictions were wrong. I used to sit in the tree in total bewilderment as to why the surface wind seemed to change constantly. It's much less frustrating when I learned to understand the reasons for unstable wind. It usually comes down to choosing a stand in the wrong terrain that day.
Never ignore prevailing wind, and never assume that surface wind will coincide with prevailing wind.

I live at the bottom of a valley that orients pretty much north to south. Our prevailing wind is also N-NW with some NNE mixed in. It does seem that I can get some more days early season that give me S- SW- SE. Some days when the wind at my work is coming strong from the NW my flag in the front yard will be flying the opposite direction. It has a lot to do with the big white pine stands that make up the majority of mature trees surrounding my house as well as the rolling on the lee side. Hilly terrain is tough.

 

[Mattyq2402]

Yes, but it will be a short term stand...it will work early in the morning before sun up when thermals are still falling, and it will work after sun set when thermals begin to fall. Those locations can work. But if you hunt all day, or at least well into the day, you are gonna have some swirling winds.
I see more buck movement (during the rut) during later morning than I see during the classic " dusk and dawn" periods.

Would u move up the hill then above the likely cruising trail on the North winds? Still hunting the same general location?

 

[Mattyq2402]

Would u move up the hill then above the likely cruising trail on the North winds? Still hunting the same general location?

Reason i ask is im so use to hearing hunt the leeward side of the ridge. Obviously they cant always follow this rule, do you set up in situations like this on non leeward based on the terrain and that you are using thermals and "surface wind" oposed to the prevailing wind. Just wanting to clarify. I always thought the leeward was the end all....

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Reason i ask is im so use to hearing hunt the leeward side of the ridge. Obviously they cant always follow this rule, do you set up in situations like this on non leeward based on the terrain and that you are using thermals and "surface wind" oposed to the prevailing wind. Just wanting to clarify. I always thought the leeward was the end all....

I mentioned earlier that I was mostly commenting on which wind patterns would be most stable, I wasn't necessarily talking about movement patterns. I did mention the top of headers being great for stand locations (they are basically pinch points) but most of my points were focusing on wind patterns.

Surface wind is what is most important to us. It dictates what the animals are doing and it also dictates where we can set stands. But surface wind is influenced by how the prevailing wind is impacting the terrain so we have to know what prevailing wind is doing in order to predict surface wind. Surface wind will change as the angle and speed of the prevailing wind changes. A steep west facing slope will have very stable wind during a westerly wind but that same slope can be a wind challenge if the wind has any easterly influence. That's just one example.

But during a cloudy day, with really light prevailing winds, and a fairly stable temperature swing, the surface winds will mirror the prevailing wind much more consistently. Wind eddies will be much less of a factor.

It's easy to say "Just move here or there for your set up" but there are a lot of variables that an image can't show. @Kurt mentioned (post #54) about how the pine stand alters the surface wind at his home. Those types of things are pretty much impossible to see on an image.Also, little drop offs or small benches often won't show on a topo map so boots on the ground are important. Even an access road thru dense cover can effect wind patterns.

I agree that the leeward side can be better for movement patterns but they can be really difficult to hunt because of goofy wind patterns.
I really like when I can find some sort of bend in the overall movement pattern. If I can find a suitable tree on the outside of that bend, I can get away with a lot more as far as not being busted due to unstable winds. The terrain of your property looks like it should have a ton of bends in movement.

 

[Mattyq2402]

Any reccomendation for height of a set up in a spot like the south pin, would 30 ft up assist in either moving the prevailing or surface winds. Curiois if there are any high set up hunters other than John Eberhart on here?

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Any reccomendation for height of a set up in a spot like the south pin, would 30 ft up assist in either moving the prevailing or surface winds. Curiois if there are any high set up hunters other than John Eberhart on here?

Its really hard to predict that without having never hunted it. A slight change in the combination or wind angle over that draw, and wind speed can really change things. Backround cover is important, too. And so is your odor reduction regimen.

 

[Kurt]

Any reccomendation for height of a set up in a spot like the south pin, would 30 ft up assist in either moving the prevailing or surface winds. Curiois if there are any high set up hunters other than John Eberhart on here?

I took my 1st saddle buck from 30'. Height will let you get away with some stuff, but it's not the end all be all. It's helpful to hunt benches in hilly terrain.