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Calling all fussy broadhead sharpeners

I am not sure what to make of this thread? Is it a joke? A properly sharpened broad head has scratches so minute not even light is distorted. The scale of the scratches will be so small they will never interact with anything. Direction of the scratches make zero difference.
 
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CooterBrown said:
so AT did this post make sense to you?
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I can only make assumptions about what the drawings are suggesting. Just the fact that there are arrows in the sketch would seem to mean it refers to some level of "direction", but I don't know if it means to push the blade INTO the stone, or pull it BACK .
It's very easy to infer the wrong thing in a post, especially when few, or no, words are added.
That's an issue which I struggle with when I type a post...how many words to accurately convey my point?
 
Allegheny Tom said:
I can only make assumptions about what the drawings are suggesting. Just the fact that there are arrows in the sketch would seem to mean it refers to some level of "direction", but I don't know if it means to push the blade INTO the stone, or pull it BACK .
It's very easy to infer the wrong thing in a post, especially when few, or no, words are added.
That's an issue which I struggle with when I type a post...how many words to accurately convey my point?
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I was mostly referring to the direction of the broadhead tip. Trying to understand how you sharpen your broadheads
 
jphillips97 said:
I am not sure what to make of this thread? Is it a joke? A properly sharpened broad head has scratches do minute not even light is distorted. The scale of the scratches will be so small they will never interact with anything. Direction of the scratches make zero difference.
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This thread is fascinating.
I agree with jphillips97: a well sharpened broadhead has grooves so minute their direction is inconsequential. If someone is sharpening with 220 grit and then going to a strop, then yes on a microscopic level what you are left with is an edge that has serrations in the direction of the sharpening process. If I am carefully and thoroughly sharpening a blade for a long lasting razor sharp edge - I started with whatever grit is required to quickly remove enough material to grind out all chips along the edge. Then I work my way methodically through each grit - 80 - 120 - 200 - 400 - 600 - 800 - 1200 and then to a strop or cardboard to remove the micro burr. If I am thorough about each grit, that grit removes grooves left by the prior grit. When a blade edge is left with serrations like the grizzly on page one it can feel and cut as if it was very sharp - but only on the first cut. Those serrations are each an individual fine point, which are highly vulnerable to chipping and bending. When that happens you’re left with burrs. To be clear a burr is a small fold on the edge surface. So the more we are able to make that blade edge a uniform wedge, the better. In reality we almost never get it perfect but the closer we get the longer it lasts. Even the act of taking an arrow in and out of most quivers can deteriorate an edge. And again the more even your edge the less it is damaged by the repetitive action of sliding in and out of a quiver.
 
At some molecular level, the direction of the scratches matters. I’d assume on a really dull edge that needs lots of TLC with coarse grits, removing material is more important than direction, as the finer grits will remove scratches from prior as pointed out by others. But once you’re refining that edge, I’d argue that the direction of the tiniest scratches does in fact matter IF you want to not just slice through the deer, but slice through the very fibers of hair, hide, fat, linings, soft viscous stuff, blood and possibly bone, then back through it all in reverse as a pass-through, you need that edge cutting on that molecular level. I would also argue that for me, I get a faster and better burr by directional sharpening. Kinda surprising tbh but it was undeniable on my knife and 3-blades. And as AT says, it literally takes no more effort.
I am definitely going to experiment with other blades. This thread has me like a meatball in gravy, just marinating away.
 
Microscopic is the word y’all are looking for not molecular and considering we can can see microscopically with a microscope I’d love to see some images of @Allegheny Tom s broadhead edges vs dull edge vs sharpening in a different direction etc. I’d curious if there is some visible difference at the “microscopic” level.

Next, some kind of force comparison would quantify what y’all consider a noticeable difference in sharpness or effectiveness of the blade. Even if it’s crude it could give some insight to the difference this method of sharpening makes as compared to other methods.

There is a guy on YouTube that compares a lot of broad heads and I’ve seen him use a small scale with a stand that holds thread or a piece paper which he presses or runs the broad head against it to get a force in weight needed to cut whatever it is he is cutting. Maybe something similar could work here.

I hope you are all too busy hunting to want to fool with this experiment!
 
gcr0003 said:
Microscopic is the word y’all are looking for not molecular and considering we can can see microscopically with a microscope I’d love to see some images of @Allegheny Tom s broadhead edges vs dull edge vs sharpening in a different direction etc. I’d curious if there is some visible difference at the “microscopic” level.

Next, some kind of force comparison would quantify what y’all consider a noticeable difference in sharpness or effectiveness of the blade. Even if it’s crude it could give some insight to the difference this method of sharpening makes as compared to other methods.

There is a guy on YouTube that compares a lot of broad heads and I’ve seen him use a small scale with a stand that holds thread or a piece paper which he presses or runs the broad head against it to get a force in weight needed to cut whatever it is he is cutting. Maybe something similar could work here.

I hope you are all too busy hunting to want to fool with this experiment!
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I understand “molecular” to mean “microscopically microscopic” as it’s been used by myself and others. But your point is well made and we’ll both slice our microns AND molecules regardless.

Lusk Archery is the YT channel I believe you’re referring to. I have only seen him test broadheads he has not sharpened himself, either out of box or after punishment. There are other vids with ppl using the same device to measure knives/BH’s they’ve sharpened themselves. I’m not familiar with the particulars (or particles :tonguewink:) but I know it’s a special wire material and it will measure the force required. I think a lot of BH’s come out of the package “sharp enough” but require like, double the force of what is considered “razor sharp” on the scale. I’m no expert. I am a podunk scientist at best. My scale of sharpness goes from Dull to HSTFS (iykyk) and that’s scientific enough for me. But I would indeed like someone nerdier than myself to test the molecular and microscopic and particulars and particles of directional sharpening to confirm what my eyes and paper tests tell me,or not.
 
gcr0003 said:
Microscopic is the word y’all are looking for not molecular and considering we can can see microscopically with a microscope I’d love to see some images of @Allegheny Tom s broadhead edges vs dull edge vs sharpening in a different direction etc. I’d curious if there is some visible difference at the “microscopic” level.

Next, some kind of force comparison would quantify what y’all consider a noticeable difference in sharpness or effectiveness of the blade. Even if it’s crude it could give some insight to the difference this method of sharpening makes as compared to other methods.

There is a guy on YouTube that compares a lot of broad heads and I’ve seen him use a small scale with a stand that holds thread or a piece paper which he presses or runs the broad head against it to get a force in weight needed to cut whatever it is he is cutting. Maybe something similar could work here.

I hope you are all too busy hunting to want to fool with this experiment!
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Cody Greenwood of the TradLab is very detail oriented with everything including sharpening. He has the set up to test edges too.
 
Just re-sharpened my 3 blade head that I shot the doe over the weekend with and tried the directional route. 20 passes on each side on 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000 grit papers and finished with 20 passes each side on leather but pulling rather than pushing. Feel test was inconclusive about improvement but that motor scooter is ready to eat again.
 
DelaWhere_Arrow said:
At some molecular level, the direction of the scratches matters.
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It really does not matter an iota. I have a doctorate in Optical Engineering so I understand about polish and scales of interactions. When you sharpen something to a mirror finish, that is saying it is smooth to less than the wavelength of visible light (~0.5 millionths of a meter). That is really small and nothing physical is going to interact with scratches on that level.... It just will not happen.
 
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jphillips97 said:
It really does not matter an iota. I have a doctorate in Optical Engineering so I understand about polish and scales of interactions. When you sharpen something to a mirror finish, that is saying is is smooth to less than the wavelength of visible light (~0.5 millionths of a meter). That is really small and nothing physical is going to interact with scratches on that level.... It just will not happen.
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I am less concerned with your comments about directional sharpening than I am with optical engineering. I want to knowhow you build an eyeball. That sounds very interesting.
 
BTaylor said:
I am less concerned with your comments about directional sharpening than I am with optical engineering. I want to knowhow you build an eyeball. That sounds very interesting.
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Hah. I cannot build an eyeball, but the optics are pretty straight forward. The amazing part is the our Creator made such a well formed adjustable focal length lens with such a precise feedback loop....
 
This is major master bowhunter flex. Too bad you have to get through hair, hide, and maybe bones or cartilage to get to the good stuff.
 
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