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Close call

Glad you’re ok, man. Scary for sure.

I’ve been using the kn/sw combo and haven’t had any problems but I have to admit that I don’t like how much you have to loosen the lineman’s belt when using it. Thinking that being tethered in would be a good idea. Going to have to play with it some more...
 
Tangential, but I am working on ditching any type of aiders. To me, the juice just ain’t worth the squeeze.

Cut down helium’s are 2.25 lbs. muddy pros are 3 lbs. beast sticks are under 2 lbs. Stepps are 1 lb.

I am just shy of 6’. If I can have Stepps every 2 feet without aiders, I can get 20’ in 10 lbs. cut helium’s or muddy pros are 4 sticks and aider for close to 20’ and that is 12 lbs or 11 lbs.

Beast sticks with versa straps (approx 1.7 lbs +) seem to be the only thing to compete against Stepps for height to weight. Around 9 lbs for approx 20’

I use Stepps (no aiders) and muddy pros with a CAYG aider. If I can get in on the beast sticks, i think I will have two non-aider options (beast and Stepps) and one aider option (muddy pro) that will get me to height at approx 10 lbs.

I love me the ease of my muddy pros, but I do not like the risk factor of aiders.

Just some random musings from me.
 
sojourner said:
Tangential, but I am working on ditching any type of aiders. To me, the juice just ain’t worth the squeeze.

Cut down helium’s are 2.25 lbs. muddy pros are 3 lbs. beast sticks are under 2 lbs. Stepps are 1 lb.

I am just shy of 6’. If I can have Stepps every 2 feet without aiders, I can get 20’ in 10 lbs. cut helium’s or muddy pros are 4 sticks and aider for close to 20’ and that is 12 lbs or 11 lbs.

Beast sticks with versa straps (approx 1.7 lbs +) seem to be the only thing to compete against Stepps for height to weight. Around 9 lbs for approx 20’

I use Stepps (no aiders) and muddy pros with a CAYG aider. If I can get in on the beast sticks, i think I will have two non-aider options (beast and Stepps) and one aider option (muddy pro) that will get me to height at approx 10 lbs.

I love me the ease of my muddy pros, but I do not like the risk factor of aiders.

Just some random musings from me.
Click to expand...
Squirrel. Steps. Clamp on like a rock. half the weight of a stepp even with the ocb strap.

Stepps i feel like only make sense from a weight/bulk/effort perspective if you use with some sort of aider. using single steps with no aiders? Squirrelsteps are far better in that configuration. Quicker, easier, lighter by far.
 
Anytime your step is free swinging, things can go wrong quick. Always be tied off and have a good hand hold while stepping into it. The more free swinging steps in a row, the more risk. Glad you are not seriously hurt.
 
SomthingOriginal said:
@mattsteg swaider gives me an extra 18" or so per step. So with 5 steps it gets you about 7' higher. But the swaider wasn't the problem ( this time).

@Randy Shepherd gonna be a week or 2 before I can draw my bow again. That's enough time to become a 1 stick expert, right?!?
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I use the one stick primarily but I still use the WE stepps occasionally. When I use them I climb using a modified Cain's method that keeps me tethered to the tree at all times. The method still nets me 3 1/2 feet per step so I can get to 20 feet plus with 6-7 steps.
 
So, I thought I was money in the bank with a 5 step aider & WE Stepps. Went out to practice one day after some rain (you know, trying to simulate hunting situations) and had a kick out, even while trying to be ULTRA careful. Right then and there I ditched the 5 step aider. I have found that I am very proficient with Stepps & knaider, however, it is IMPERATIVE to have a solid handhold. The problem with the 5 step aider was not having a handhold at or above head level. When the snow & ice start, back to sticks.
 
I am afraid that incidents like yours are gonna become more common as guys try more complicated climbing methods with more moving parts that are very routine oriented.Every one likes the ability to be lighter and more mobile but that comes with a risk at times.What is acceptable is up to the individual.The simpler you keep your method the better.Even at the cost of a couple more pounds.Glad you are okay man
 
huntin_addict said:
So, I thought I was money in the bank with a 5 step aider & WE Stepps. Went out to practice one day after some rain (you know, trying to simulate hunting situations) and had a kick out, even while trying to be ULTRA careful. Right then and there I ditched the 5 step aider. I have found that I am very proficient with Stepps & knaider, however, it is IMPERATIVE to have a solid handhold. The problem with the 5 step aider was not having a handhold at or above head level. When the snow & ice start, back to sticks.
Click to expand...
That's where I'm at right now. At this point I just don't have any confidence in the system when conditions are less than ideal. I thought I was the slickest thing in the woods, turns out the slickest thing in the woods was that tree.

So where is your hand hold with the knaider?
 
Thanks for sharing. The steps have slide down a few inches on me more than once. First saddle hunt in the am I think I’m only going to take my hand climber top with me. I’ve only got a handful of practice sessions in so I’m plenty nervous.


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SomthingOriginal said:
That's where I'm at right now. At this point I just don't have any confidence in the system when conditions are less than ideal. I thought I was the slickest thing in the woods, turns out the slickest thing in the woods was that tree.

So where is your hand hold with the knaider?
Click to expand...
I tie on 2 Stepps while on the ground, one at waist height, one at the top of my head. Using the upper as a secure handhold, I loosen linesmans & go up one Stepp, tighten linesmans, then tie one another at top of head and repeat. One thing I added was a strap on tree step at the top of my climb so I have a handhold to get on the top Stepp. This also doubles as my pack hanger.
 
I’ve come to the conclusion that one or the other are great tools but used together the risk of a serious kickout are serious. It would be ok with a climbing stick. Not so much with steps. When you are going for the step up after hooking the knaider 90 percent of your weight is above the pivot point and your only solid handhold. When using the knaider alone you don’t have this issue. Tie a step on head high then one waist high. When you hook your knaider into the step at your waist and step up you are holding onto the step at head high. Even if the knaider kicks out it’s easy to correct, you don’t flip sideways or upside down. 8 stepps and the knaider can still get you 24-26 feet. That’s a package that carries pretty good and has a reasonable margin for error. Would I feel comfortable with the knaider/ swaider on a basketball size straight hardwood in favorable weather conditions? Absolutely, but I I carry 6-8 stepps into my tree not knowing what I’ll have to be prepared for I might as well use all of them. I am working on something with the stepps that splits the difference in height getting around 4.5 feet per step while still having a handhold. I’ll try to practice with it some this week and see how I feel about it before I share. Y’all be safe and have fun. I’d rather hunt from the ground than dangle upside down by my knee. It’s nearly impossible to shoot 360 around the tree while hanging from your knee.
 
huntin_addict said:
So, I thought I was money in the bank with a 5 step aider & WE Stepps. Went out to practice one day after some rain (you know, trying to simulate hunting situations) and had a kick out, even while trying to be ULTRA careful. Right then and there I ditched the 5 step aider. I have found that I am very proficient with Stepps & knaider, however, it is IMPERATIVE to have a solid handhold. The problem with the 5 step aider was not having a handhold at or above head level. When the snow & ice start, back to sticks.
Click to expand...
I’m on my second year of using the Stepps and 5 Step aider exclusively. I’m slow and methodical with it. I’ve not had snow to deal with but I’ve used it in the heavy rain. The only thing I limit is very thin trees. The key to 5 step is a good solid tie plant against the tree. Anything smaller than about 8” and you will without fail have a kick out.
 
That’s exactly why I’m a fan of the KIS method. Keep it simple. 3-4 climbing sticks and a few screw in steps. I can be up a tree in no time and it’s still only 8-9 pounds. No aiders etc for me. I’m sure they are great but I like easy thought free methods.
 
fbwguy said:
I’m on my second year of using the Stepps and 5 Step aider exclusively. I’m slow and methodical with it. I’ve not had snow to deal with but I’ve used it in the heavy rain. The only thing I limit is very thin trees. The key to 5 step is a good solid tie plant against the tree. Anything smaller than about 8” and you will without fail have a kick out.
Click to expand...
I’ve got about 20 climbs with the five step aider and knaider together. It works but you are really vulnerable those last steps. Once that solid handhold passes my equator it’s not very easily recoverable in the event of a Kickout.
 
Went out earlier and took my steps an knaider as my climbing method. Got into an area that was muddy. Found my tree, set two steps and prepared to climb. Was concerned with the mud on my boots but figured the way the steps are made shouldn’t be a problem. I was wrong. Hooked up the knaider and started pulling myself up by the higher step. As soon as I tried to put my other foot on the step it slipped right off. Decided not today...end of hunt. Looking around on the way out saw plenty of trees the LWHC would be great on...needless to say it will be going next time.

I have practiced a lot with the steps and knaider but of course never in that situation. Being said I also need to remember that little voice in my head is there for a reason.


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I had a very similar thing happen to me earlier this year. I really wanted to have the WE steps and K/S combo work. But for me, I couldn't get the steps to cam over consistently. Then I had the incident with K/S and just decided it wasn't worth it. Sold the steps, and got sticks. I am very glad you are alright and hope the season goes better from here.
 
mattsteg said:
Squirrel. Steps. Clamp on like a rock. half the weight of a stepp even with the ocb strap.

Stepps i feel like only make sense from a weight/bulk/effort perspective if you use with some sort of aider. using single steps with no aiders? Squirrelsteps are far better in that configuration. Quicker, easier, lighter by far.
Click to expand...

Ha, maybe next season. Last night I just ordered a Stone Glacier minimalist pack on an xcurve frame and assorted goodies. #2019HuntingBudgetBlown.
 
Good discussion. Knaiders and Swaiders just never resonated with me - always viewed them personally as sketchy but I have used the RedSquireel aider method and a 3 step CMI aider with the Stepps. I prefer the RS method. I had a good kick out using a 3 step aider on a rough bark pine 15’ up while descending and the LB kept me from going down. I don’t like how much slack the LB gets when going up using an aider with the Stepps. I’m going to start this season with one sticking - with that system you are always tethered in and can advance the tether as you move up each step. In the end you will buy 20 different climbing methods and settle in on one eventually. It’s a process and the learning doesn’t stop. Stay safe man


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