Cons of amsteel tether/lineman's ?

[heartdart]

I bought my mantis, predator platform, and 11mm ropes when tethrd first released products. I never looked at changing anything. I was curious about new products, and I am blown away with the amount of gear available now. I was wondering if there are any cons to the amsteel ropes?
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[Ben C]

I bought my mantis, predator platform, and 11mm ropes when tethrd first released products. I never looked at changing anything. I was curious about new products, and I am blown away with the amount of gear available now. I was wondering if there are any cons to the amsteel ropes?
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From what I've read it has a low melting point and should not be used as a friction hitch.

 

[heartdart]

From what I've read it has a low melting point and should not be used as a friction hitch.

Thank you!!!

 

[Brocky]

It does have a low melting point, but because the molecules are stretched end to end, it tends to block and delay the melting longer than nylon or polyester. A fast descent will cause glazing and melting, but not enough to break it with the short height most hunt from.

 

[Weldabeast]

Anything Amsteel that contacts the tree bark repeatedly frays up surprisingly fast....once it frays up it "clings" to rougher bark...they might work awesome for a little while but not gonna last like rope....I haven't used sticks in quite a while but I can go grab my old Amsteel rope off 1 of my sticks and throw it at the oak tree and I'd bet u a dollar that it would cling and stick and not fall to the ground.....and also imo u want a more meaty rope for ur linesman so u can flip it up the trunk

 

[Weldabeast]

I forgot I made the eye smaller than the button so they couldn't fall off and I'm not unbolting but here u go....look mom, no knots...

 

[Zero One Actual]

Anything Amsteel that contacts the tree bark repeatedly frays up surprisingly fast....once it frays up it "clings" to rougher bark...they might work awesome for a little while but not gonna last like rope....I haven't used sticks in quite a while but I can go grab my old Amsteel rope off 1 of my sticks and throw it at the oak tree and I'd bet u a dollar that it would cling and stick and not fall to the ground.....and also imo u want a more meaty rope for ur linesman so u can flip it up the trunk

I agree. I tried the amsteel one time just to try it because a friend had it available. The weight savings you gain in minimal compared to the “F this” factor you will have moving that amsteel up and down the tree or as a tether.

I love to experiment with all sorts of things and have an open mind, but in this case I would say that the majority rule wins out in this case. Meaning almost everyone is running rope of some kind for a tether and LB.

 

[heartdart]

Thank you all. I read alot over the last few hours about this. I never thought that the amsteel friction hitch would be problematic. I'll pick up some 8mm rope for next year. Thanks again!

 

[Spartan]

Thinner ropes can become uncomfortable when using them for a lineman's belt. This would negate a lot of the benefit of using amsteel (the exclusive name that us saddle hunters use for Dyneema). It also tends to be quite light and floppy, which would also contribute to it being difficult to use as a lineman's belt.

I found myself going in the opposite direction this season, and back to using 10mm rope for my lineman's (was using 9mm for most of the season). HTP to be specific. Much more comfortable in the hands, and the stiffness of the rope allows it to be "flipped" up the tree easily.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

Thinner ropes can become uncomfortable when using them for a lineman's belt. This would negate a lot of the benefit of using amsteel (the exclusive name that us saddle hunters use for Dyneema). It also tends to be quite light and floppy, which would also contribute to it being difficult to use as a lineman's belt.

I found myself going in the opposite direction this season, and back to using 10mm rope for my lineman's (was using 9mm for most of the season). HTP to be specific. Much more comfortable in the hands, and the stiffness of the rope allows it to be "flipped" up the tree easily.

i am on the fence agreeing with your first point. Started on 11mm lineman’s and thought I’d never change, but for last two years I switched to 8mm LB and kept 11mm tether. I have enjoyed the lightness and gripping power of smaller ropes, but I’m now thinking I might want to switch those, go back to 11mm LB, and tether go to 8mm, or keep both back at 11mm. This is honestly for two reasons only:
1. I just got a RM1 and I want to experiment with it on LB. Used it on my tether and even though I trust it I still get wimpy about it and use a prusik backup anyway
2. I use my LB as “suspenders” for my Kestrel and 8mm is awesome in the late season when I have bulky clothing but earlier or on days when I don’t need to layer so much, it kinda cuts into my neck and shoulders if I have to walk further, or if I make a sudden move in the saddle and it’s cinched tighter than I thought.
Dunno yet, probably wait until next season and I’ll dial it in.

 

[HangFree.co]

I bought my mantis, predator platform, and 11mm ropes when tethrd first released products. I never looked at changing anything. I was curious about new products, and I am blown away with the amount of gear available now. I was wondering if there are any cons to the amsteel ropes?
Like this

Great questions, we are the only hunting company that works directly with Samson (as of 2 months ago) and we have talked splicing techniques, abrasion on bark, and various other highly controversial topics about AmSteel and AmSteel Blue. While its thought that the heat from the friction hitch will melt the AmSteel Blue that is not true. We use AmSteel Blue which has a higher melting point, is more abrasion resistant, and overall has a longer life span. We were told by a Samson Rep that AmSteel Blue on AmSteel Blue is completely fine and will not melt given our application. Now the abrasion is a factor in the longevity of the ropes, while they can and may fray there are various other factors that go into it such as the type or bark on trees, how often they are being used and a handful of other things. Our 3/16 and 1/4 AmSteel Blue Tether and Lineman's Belts are one of our most popular products and we have not heard about any abrasion problems thus far and we have even gotten feedback from guys who used them all seasons with no problems. The most frequent question we will get is about the prusik getting tight, with a couple quick tips and a little practice that problem is solved almost immediately... plus, to tight is way better than to loose! Hope that clears some thing up and give you honest insight and not just our opinion as Samson is the manufacturer of AmSteel Blue and knows much better than anyone else when it comes to their products.

 

[Horn]

Great questions, we are the only hunting company that works directly with Samson (as of 2 months ago) and we have talked splicing techniques, abrasion on bark, and various other highly controversial topics about AmSteel and AmSteel Blue. While its thought that the heat from the friction hitch will melt the AmSteel Blue that is not true. We use AmSteel Blue which has a higher melting point, is more abrasion resistant, and overall has a longer life span. We were told by a Samson Rep that AmSteel Blue on AmSteel Blue is completely fine and will not melt given our application. Now the abrasion is a factor in the longevity of the ropes, while they can and may fray there are various other factors that go into it such as the type or bark on trees, how often they are being used and a handful of other things. Our 3/16 and 1/4 AmSteel Blue Tether and Lineman's Belts are one of our most popular products and we have not heard about any abrasion problems thus far and we have even gotten feedback from guys who used them all seasons with no problems. The most frequent question we will get is about the prusik getting tight, with a couple quick tips and a little practice that problem is solved almost immediately... plus, to tight is way better than to loose! Hope that clears some thing up and give you honest insight and not just our opinion as Samson is the manufacturer of AmSteel Blue and knows much better than anyone else when it comes to their products.

So what are the tips to keep it from locking up? Main and really only reason I don't like amsteel

 

[raisins]

Anything Amsteel that contacts the tree bark repeatedly frays up surprisingly fast....once it frays up it "clings" to rougher bark...they might work awesome for a little while but not gonna last like rope....I haven't used sticks in quite a while but I can go grab my old Amsteel rope off 1 of my sticks and throw it at the oak tree and I'd bet u a dollar that it would cling and stick and not fall to the ground.....and also imo u want a more meaty rope for ur linesman so u can flip it up the trunk

are you sure that's samson amsteel blue?

i've had amsteel on for my platforms and 12 hanging steps for a few years and they aren't frayed much at all....in fact, surprisingly little

 

[raisins]

there's much better choices for a tether and lineman's

friction hitches don't work well on amsteel if you want to adjust regularly

amsteel is about as low stretch as you can get and so snaps surprisingly easily with a dynamic load (drop) and you don't have a cover to somewhat save you

i have an amsteel bridge which works well but i'm somewhat ambivalent about it

i use amsteel on sticks and steps and platforms without worry because i don't consider those things life support (if they fail i'm still okay)

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Great questions, we are the only hunting company that works directly with Samson (as of 2 months ago) and we have talked splicing techniques, abrasion on bark, and various other highly controversial topics about AmSteel and AmSteel Blue. While its thought that the heat from the friction hitch will melt the AmSteel Blue that is not true. We use AmSteel Blue which has a higher melting point, is more abrasion resistant, and overall has a longer life span. We were told by a Samson Rep that AmSteel Blue on AmSteel Blue is completely fine and will not melt given our application. Now the abrasion is a factor in the longevity of the ropes, while they can and may fray there are various other factors that go into it such as the type or bark on trees, how often they are being used and a handful of other things. Our 3/16 and 1/4 AmSteel Blue Tether and Lineman's Belts are one of our most popular products and we have not heard about any abrasion problems thus far and we have even gotten feedback from guys who used them all seasons with no problems. The most frequent question we will get is about the prusik getting tight, with a couple quick tips and a little practice that problem is solved almost immediately... plus, to tight is way better than to loose! Hope that clears some thing up and give you honest insight and not just our opinion as Samson is the manufacturer of AmSteel Blue and knows much better than anyone else when it comes to their products.

The only company with a relationship with Samson and using amsteel blue? Man I didn’t even realize y’all were the only ones in Florida doing that.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Ok guys I’ve addressed this before and I kind of knew this would be coming around again….. Amsteel or Amsteel blue both have a melting point of below 300 degrees. One is listed at 290 and the other at 296 so the temps aren’t different enough that one is “better” at friction handling than the other. However since most guys using amsteel are full burying the splice, the hitch will bite down incredibly hard, the slick nature of dyneema along with the urethane coating and it will reduce its friction against itself and dissipate it fairly quickly. So while friction and melting is a concern it’s not the major concern. The major concern is its lack of stretch. The rope has less than one percent stretch at 30% of its MBS. This problem is 2 fold when using it as a tether. The first problem is that because it doesn’t stretch amsteel is not great at dynamic loading. Some people climb above their tethers. Some people spin on the platform for weak side shots. Equipment fails ect ect ect…. There have been many dynamic tests ran where nylon runners out perform dyneema runners for mountain climbing. Nylon runners with 4000 lbs break strength often hold without failure to that force or above when dynamically applied, where as dyneema (the material amsteel is made of) routinely breaks at much lower forces than it’s rated for when dynamically applied. This problem becomes two fold as material degradation comes into play and the fact that we girth hitch the tree. A girth hitch reduces the strength of rope by approximately 40%. So your rope is 40% weaker than it’s mbs, and then you use it a full season it’s weakened by abrasion, sunlight (slightly) and friction. You take it out for season 2 and you suffer a fall, do you trust the reduced strength of that rope to catch you when it already doesn’t like to be shock loaded?…
Which leads me to the second point, most climbing ropes even static ones have around 3.5% elongation or more at 10% of their breaking strength. Some ropes like 10mm protac have closer to 6 or 8%, and dynamic will have greater than 20%. Why is this important? Some have suggested elongation is what you use to rate the ropes safe work load….. this is completely wrong. Elongation is important because the rope stretching, reduces force by acting like shock absorbers. The more stretch your rope has, the less force making it to your saddle and your body.
So why use it for bridges? Well it’s simple bridges are basket configuration. They are attached on both sides so force is applied at two locations. This essentially makes the rope 1.5 times stronger than it is when being used as a tether. A tether is a single point of force applied directly to one location.
Ok so a lineman’s rope acts like a bridge in that it has two points of contact. Yes this is true and you could use amsteel as a lineman’s rope. Except that proper use of a lineman’s rope is you hold the ropes at a point close to the tree, you lean in slightly to remove the tension then you lightly flip your wrists to advance the rope up the tree. Amsteel even double buried is too flimsy and flexible, not to mention the diameter is a little small to safely and reliably flip the rope as you should. So while it’s strong enough to use (if it’s at least 1/4” because you’re gonna have a smaller diameter cord for your friction hitch) it’s not firm enough to handle so you’re stuck reaching around the back of the tree to advance your lineman’s rope. This is improper use and bad form both of which could lead to you falling down the tree or pinching off your fingers while they are under the rope. My opinion is don’t do that. There are safer and better options for both lineman’s ropes and tethers. And there are better places to save on weight and money.

 

[Weldabeast]

are you sure that's samson amsteel blue?

i've had amsteel on for my platforms and 12 hanging steps for a few years and they aren't frayed much at all....in fact, surprisingly little

I hope so... That's what I paid for