Consensus On Wind/Thermal Strategies For Saddle/Stand Setups (Ambush Strategy) For Big Bucks

[Maverick1]

Over the years I've personally witnessed big deer use the absolute wrong wind or a tail wind numerous times.

How many big bucks have you shot over the years?…..

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

How many big bucks have you shot over the years?…..

Irrelevant and irreverent.

 

[woodsdog2]

How many big bucks have you shot over the years?…..

I’m no big buck serial killer by any means but I've taken some decent ones, lost some decent ones and completely blew it on some decent ones. I’ve also watched many pre and post season for many years. I remember my first inclination to start to bowhunt. It was late summer and my cousin and I were sitting at the edge of a hay field woodchuck hunting. I was 12. All of a sudden the buck parade came out we watched them for an hour. I knew right then in order to have any consistent chance at taking mature bucks, Especially in my state, I would have to start bowhunting. And I did two years later when it was legal for my age at that time. That was 43 years ago. I hunted out of state once in my life three years ago in Northern PA and I’ve never been on any guided hunts or anything like that. I appreciate the question.

 

[1simplemann]

To be clear I am not disagreeing with anything you posted this deer was just different than all the rest where he was hunting. The deer was bedding in the 125-150 yard range and daylighted there coming in with the wind in his face. On a north wind he always used the same trail in and the stand was set where the wind was only 5-10 degrees from being dead wrong. He got there late on other winds because he would circle before coming in. Three years of cam data for that deer and he was as consistent as the sun coming up in the east. If there was five days in a row of north wind he daylighted all of them as soon as it changed he would be after dark arriving. The way that particular spot lays with where the bedding is and fields are it is conducive for that type movement. For sure not nearly every buck does that and I also think terrain plays a role too for some bucks. This scenario though is specific to targeting a single deer rather than just being in position to kill a mature deer. There have been multiple big deer killed from that tree taking advantage of that specific bedding area and he was the only one to date with such a consistent travel pattern based on wind. Others have moved much more along the lines of what you described with a front, temp drop, etc that got them up on their feet. And don’t feel alone with the being behind em or just off this year. I got it handed to me as well. Had 6 mature bucks 60 yards or closer and never put tension on the string. Just couldn’t get dialed all the way in on much of anything this year. It happens but I don’t like it.


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That sounds like a very difficult deer to kill. For sure, almost impossible without camera's. (Makes me want to get some), Were those other bucks killed on a N wind? Maybe it was a N wind spot? AM or PM on those other bucks?

5-10 degrees from "Dead wrong" means this buck WAS traveling with the wind mostly in his face so maybe he felt more comfortable to move in daylight because he could smell and see everything in front of him. I'm assuming this was an evening set up. What about AM? Did he daylight then? Even on a N wind, he had to get back to his bed somehow. The wind would have been mostly at his back. For sure an interesting buck

As far as this past year goes, I'm treating it as re building year. For starters, my target buck was either dead or relocated somewhere else. He was fairly dependable last year. My customer saw him in his yard at night fairly often. I saw him the last day of the season in the headlights so I know he made it through the season. He never showed in July or August w/the Bachelor groups of bucks that normally hangs out somewhere in the field. Nor did he show up during the rut. I was hunting a Complete ghost that was most likely dead. I learned that I have to start "fresh" and hunt MRI. "most recent information". I don't run camera's so I hunted a lot of "history". Tree's that have historically been good to me especially on big bucks. I know my property more intimately than any property I've ever hunted and I "thought" I knew their patterns fairly well. This year they threw a major curve ball at me that I've never seen them do before. They relocated to the other end of the property or off the property entirely for about 7-10 days. I had a bunch of sits where I saw nothing or maybe a few does and a spike or Y buck. Even then they were always 30-40 yds away. Somehow I managed guess right and get 2 mature bucks in range and screwed that up both times. 61 hours in the tree and I ate my tag.

 

[1simplemann]

How many big bucks have you shot over the years?…..

It doesn't matter how many he's killed. What matters is did he witness a certain behavior and learn from it. I have watched several big ones come in w/ the wind at their backs and did not get them. I've also killed several others doing the same thing. I've also had them come in w/ the wind in their faces. I've killed some and others got away. I tried to learn from each experience.. If they feel safe, big bucks will move on any wind direction especially during the rut.

 

[DroptineKrazy]

My strategy has always consisted of hunting pinch points and saddles and other terrain features with good access and I always try to pick a tree with good cover that will work on not only the predominant wind direction but the 2nd predominant wind direction. Here where I hunt the #1 wind direction is nw. The second most common is sw so I try to find a tree that works with both winds. This means that I can hunt these stands no matter what the wind is doing on about 80 to 90% of the time. Not always easy to find but when you do find those trees they tend to produce year after year.

 

[woodsdog2]

My whole basis for this queston is that I’ve witnessed so many different behaviors over the years and have been successful at not only shooting but also watching nice bucks do different things. I’ve been trying more parallel and just off wind approaches more too over the last couple of years and I’ve had good results generally but then other times nice bucks are doing things I would never suspect they would do. I had one target that was daylighting the last 45 minutes of the early season 10/2/22 coming into a dropping apple with a direct tail wind. He worked a scrape and anticipating this movement from trail cam footage, I set up in an adjacent cornfield on a stepladder. There was a corridor between a wood line and grape rows leading to the apple. He was bedding across a country road in a ravine with a tall spiker. The spiker always lead the way. In all of my trail cam footage this spiker was always leading.. So after the grapes was a small sections of alfalfa hay/clocernthen corn. I was about 60 yards downwind of a culvert that funnels. movement just past the grapes into the hay.My thinking was I would intercept him as he headed to the corn from the hay field after hitting the apples. Sure enough just as the trail cam footage showed, here comes the spike, then him and he hit the scrape, raked his antlers on the licking branch then headed back into the woods instead of feeding out further into the hay like I thought he would. The next day I looped around the corn and one sticks up on the very same trail he worked the evening before and only had does and a yearling come under me from a complete other direction. The wind was from the N and NE for 4-5 days in a row and he was heading south from his bed each time with a direct tail wind. An another instance I was 6.5 yards from a shooter who same property totally different area the wind was still from the N. This other shooter came in on an almost off wind directly downwind so I was parallel to most of the movement. He stopped at 6.5 yards then saw my decoy and headed to the east circled around and kept on his way. He was by himself though. Do you think this former buck relied on the tall spiker or felt safer because of him? Two different mature bucks, same property but different parts of it. Same wind direction. It’s like hunting turkeys, there are some general rules of thumb but big bucks are all different and so are big Tom turkeys.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

I’ve said this many times to my friends who always disagree with me but I have the horns to prove it and most of them don’t, so here it goes..it’s my belief older more mature bucks are easier to pattern, just like people they become more creatures of habit, I would be willing to bet a lot of the guys who are chasing big rack bucks mite just be after a nice racked younger animal which are PITA to pattern, all 2.5-3.5 year old bucks are, more get killed because they throw caution to the wind half the season but and their movement is totally sporadic and more indicative of daylight action which ends up with them getting killed. Mature, old bucks lay down lots of sign in small areas and move less but in my opinion are more consistent when they do move, the reason they live longer is because of the cover they shelter in and small area they occupy when the pressure is turned up. The biggest challenge in my experience has always been locating a mature bucks core area, all the old bucks I have targeted and killed were always because of locating their ”home”, you will know it when you find one, 99% of hunters fail because of that simple fact, they either don’t find the right sign and set up, or if they get lucky and do find the right spot they bugger it up by hunting under ideal conditions or putting to much pressure on it during the wrong time, to be consistent in killing mature deer it takes having a few of these spots scouted and located with multiple target animals during the season, this is my opinion and mite be worth what you paid for it!

This is indeed a hot take. I like it. Food for thought.

 

[1simplemann]

My whole basis for this queston is that I’ve witnessed so many different behaviors over the years and have been successful at not only shooting but also watching nice bucks do different things. I’ve been trying more parallel and just off wind approaches more too over the last couple of years and I’ve had good results generally but then other times nice bucks are doing things I would never suspect they would do. I had one target that was daylighting the last 45 minutes of the early season 10/2/22 coming into a dropping apple with a direct tail wind. He worked a scrape and anticipating this movement from trail cam footage, I set up in an adjacent cornfield on a stepladder. There was a corridor between a wood line and grape rows leading to the apple. He was bedding across a country road in a ravine with a tall spiker. The spiker always lead the way. In all of my trail cam footage this spiker was always leading.. So after the grapes was a small sections of alfalfa hay/clocernthen corn. I was about 60 yards downwind of a culvert that funnels. movement just past the grapes into the hay.My thinking was I would intercept him as he headed to the corn from the hay field after hitting the apples. Sure enough just as the trail cam footage showed, here comes the spike, then him and he hit the scrape, raked his antlers on the licking branch then headed back into the woods instead of feeding out further into the hay like I thought he would. The next day I looped around the corn and one sticks up on the very same trail he worked the evening before and only had does and a yearling come under me from a complete other direction. The wind was from the N and NE for 4-5 days in a row and he was heading south from his bed each time with a direct tail wind. An another instance I was 6.5 yards from a shooter who same property totally different area the wind was still from the N. This other shooter came in on an almost off wind directly downwind so I was parallel to most of the movement. He stopped at 6.5 yards then saw my decoy and headed to the east circled around and kept on his way. He was by himself though. Do you think this former buck relied on the tall spiker or felt safer because of him? Two different mature bucks, same property but different parts of it. Same wind direction. It’s like hunting turkeys, there are some general rules of thumb but big bucks are all different and so are big Tom turkeys.

Yes he was relying on the Spiker. I've seen that many times. The younger buck is the sacrificial lamb. In the PM, Most times the big guy is last or towards the back of the group. In the AM, he's in the lead or close to the lead. My last buck, I had 14 bucks in a Bachelor group. He would come out in the field about the 10th or 12th buck. Always w/ the other bigger buck. I killed him the 1st morning I hunted him., He was 1st. SW Tailwind right at his back. He obviously had the wind in face every evening. If he had N wind in the AM I have no idea if he/they would have done the same pattern. But they had the same pattern for week w/ a steady SW wind. That tree sets up perfectly for an SW AM hunt. The Reverse is true. In the PM on N wind w/ a front coming thru that tree is usually money for a good hunt if not a good encounter w/ a big'n. We've killed several big bucks there in the AM and PM. Usually the wind is at their back.

I've also killed them w/ an off wind mostly in their faces. One of my biggest was killed a SW wind blowing right back into the bedding area. I was just off it and my scent was just missing them by 20-30yds. Killed him at 8 yds.. It had to be a steady wind. If it swirled ,they would bust you. That spot was money. I found it by pure luck and killed my 1st big one there the 1st time I hunted it 22 years ago. I knew it was a good spot but I had no idea WHY it was good spot. It me years to figure that out. Now I look back and I realize that it was almost a perfect setup. Too bad That property is now open to the public and gets pounded.

Why didn't you hunt him at the apple tree/scrape or on the way to it? That would have been my 1st choice.

 

[1simplemann]

I’ve said this many times to my friends who always disagree with me but I have the horns to prove it and most of them don’t, so here it goes..it’s my belief older more mature bucks are easier to pattern, just like people they become more creatures of habit, I would be willing to bet a lot of the guys who are chasing big rack bucks mite just be after a nice racked younger animal which are PITA to pattern, all 2.5-3.5 year old bucks are, more get killed because they throw caution to the wind half the season but and their movement is totally sporadic and more indicative of daylight action which ends up with them getting killed. Mature, old bucks lay down lots of sign in small areas and move less but in my opinion are more consistent when they do move, the reason they live longer is because of the cover they shelter in and small area they occupy when the pressure is turned up. The biggest challenge in my experience has always been locating a mature bucks core area, all the old bucks I have targeted and killed were always because of locating their ”home”, you will know it when you find one, 99% of hunters fail because of that simple fact, they either don’t find the right sign and set up, or if they get lucky and do find the right spot they bugger it up by hunting under ideal conditions or putting to much pressure on it during the wrong time, to be consistent in killing mature deer it takes having a few of these spots scouted and located with multiple target animals during the season, this is my opinion and mite be worth what you paid for it!

Well said. Don't over hunt your area's, hunt at the right time, have multiple targets, and have multiple areas. I know this and I broke all 4 rules this years. Consequently I ate my tag this year.

 

[rrogers31]

Where I am at deer consistently move opposite of thermals and even wind direction they go up hill in the morning from bedding by the fields and back down in the evening. I do see some lateral movement but its still almost always up in the mornings and down in the evenings. Im still a fairly new deer hunter and haven't really targeted a buck. We also get 3 tags so to this point I've more tried to just hunt where the deer are. With all this said on the property I hunt there is extreme thick cover around 400ft up where I know they begin to bed once pressure gets on them regardless of the wind direction its also nearly impossible to access this quietly. Ive also had countless does and several bucks be downwind of me and not flinch. Granted I can see 100-150 yards tops in my most open area so they could smell me from a distance and avoid me but the deer where I am seem to use sight and sound more than wind in general.

 

[1simplemann]

Where I am at deer consistently move opposite of thermals and even wind direction they go up hill in the morning from bedding by the fields and back down in the evening. I do see some lateral movement but its still almost always up in the mornings and down in the evenings. Im still a fairly new deer hunter and haven't really targeted a buck. We also get 3 tags so to this point I've more tried to just hunt where the deer are. With all this said on the property I hunt there is extreme thick cover around 400ft up where I know they begin to bed once pressure gets on them regardless of the wind direction its also nearly impossible to access this quietly. Ive also had countless does and several bucks be downwind of me and not flinch. Granted I can see 100-150 yards tops in my most open area so they could smell me from a distance and avoid me but the deer where I am seem to use sight and sound more than wind in general.

I can promise you they use the wind where you are located. Especially mature deer (bucks & does)

 

[rrogers31]

Not saying they don't I'm sure they do.. I am saying I see does and buck each work the exact opposite of thermals everyday on the property I hunt. I try to hunt the proper wind every time I hunt but almost every hunt this year I've seen doe groups and several buck use a wrong wind and wrong thermals at the same time.

 

[Jammintree]

Not saying they don't I'm sure they do.. I am saying I see does and buck each work the exact opposite of thermals everyday on the property I hunt. I try to hunt the proper wind every time I hunt but almost every hunt this year I've seen doe groups and several buck use a wrong wind and wrong thermals at the same time.

I’ve been watching this phenomenon and thinking a lot about it. It’s possible deer use the time of day when thermals flip to their advantage. If deer are feeding in a valley at night thermals are bringing scent down all the hills providing great surveillance. As sunrise approaches they check thermals rushing down the hill to scent check bedding areas that are closer to the ridge tops In search of safe destinations. As the sun hits the slope the thermals begin to rise and the deer can then proceed up toward what they think is safe and meanwhile have the thermals pulling up behind them to scent check their back track. I certainly have no way to confirm this for certain, but I can say that on a sunny and cool morning my observation is that deer commonly move up east facing slopes and bed on that slope just below the ridge, especially on a prevailing nw wind. They seem to Bed in the eddy where the wind rolling over the ridge meets the rising thermal.

All that said deer don’t have superpowers. I’m sure that just like us, they often make plans based on all best intel and experience and things suddenly and unexpectedly change, forcing them to seek less than ideal alternatives.

 

[1simplemann]

Not saying they don't I'm sure they do.. I am saying I see does and buck each work the exact opposite of thermals everyday on the property I hunt. I try to hunt the proper wind every time I hunt but almost every hunt this year I've seen doe groups and several buck use a wrong wind and wrong thermals at the same time.

What do you classify as the wrong wind or thermal? Your in a classic bed high, feed low situation. I have it where I hunt. It's natural them to do this cause usually that's where the ag is.. They don't always move with the wind their face or at their back.

 

[woodsdog2]

Why didn't you hunt him at the apple tree/scrape or on the way to it? That would have been my 1st choice.

3 Reasons but all mostly related to close quarters combat:1. Antlerless deer in the grapes/brassicas early everyday, 2. The suspected bedding area is just across the road to the north (on private) which is a continuation of the same ravine on the side of the road I can hunt but I’ve also kicked bucks and other deer out of the woods to the east of the travel corridor he was using. I was never 100% that he wasn’t bedding right in there as well and didn’t want to risk spooking him completely.( The woods are pressured public right next to the private I hunt) 3. The private on the other side where he mostly bedded to the north of me is owned by an out of state hunter whom I don’t know. It is so close I was concerned once hit he may run back on that private tract.

 

[woodsdog2]

@1simplemann The first hunt where I was set up in the corn was a fluke. I was heading in to do the very thing you wondered about. I had my step ladder that I was going to set up three or four grape rows to the west of the apple tree and scrape area overlooking that woods grape field travelway he was using with the spiker. I got there super early to set up like 1:30 in the pm and I made a loop around the corn to the south to ensure if he was bedded in those woods next to the corridor that I was downwind and out of sight. I got to the grape rows and there is a slight depression running east west in that field. As I got to the grape rows I notice three does already feeding on the grapes l/brassicas l!! I had to back out (luckily the wind was from the north) so like I said befor I looped around to the corn and set up instead as close as I could to that corridor/apple/scrape but remember, a lot of the other deer were heading to that from the south so I also had to be mindful of not having my scent blow to them. In retrospect, it was a blessing the antlerless deer were in that grape field as I wouldn’t have seen anything that first sit. I did see him and the spike like predicted but he headed east back into the woods instead of west like I had hoped.

 

[BTaylor]

That sounds like a very difficult deer to kill. For sure, almost impossible without camera's. (Makes me want to get some), Were those other bucks killed on a N wind? Maybe it was a N wind spot? AM or PM on those other bucks?

5-10 degrees from "Dead wrong" means this buck WAS traveling with the wind mostly in his face so maybe he felt more comfortable to move in daylight because he could smell and see everything in front of him. I'm assuming this was an evening set up. What about AM? Did he daylight then? Even on a N wind, he had to get back to his bed somehow. The wind would have been mostly at his back. For sure an interesting buck

As far as this past year goes, I'm treating it as re building year. For starters, my target buck was either dead or relocated somewhere else. He was fairly dependable last year. My customer saw him in his yard at night fairly often. I saw him the last day of the season in the headlights so I know he made it through the season. He never showed in July or August w/the Bachelor groups of bucks that normally hangs out somewhere in the field. Nor did he show up during the rut. I was hunting a Complete ghost that was most likely dead. I learned that I have to start "fresh" and hunt MRI. "most recent information". I don't run camera's so I hunted a lot of "history". Tree's that have historically been good to me especially on big bucks. I know my property more intimately than any property I've ever hunted and I "thought" I knew their patterns fairly well. This year they threw a major curve ball at me that I've never seen them do before. They relocated to the other end of the property or off the property entirely for about 7-10 days. I had a bunch of sits where I saw nothing or maybe a few does and a spike or Y buck. Even then they were always 30-40 yds away. Somehow I managed guess right and get 2 mature bucks in range and screwed that up both times. 61 hours in the tree and I ate my tag.

That stand is an afternoon only setup. Just cant get in before daylight without bumping deer. Most if not all of the deer killed from that tree were on north wind but he was the only one that held to such a tight pattern of only daylighting on north. Best I know and remember he didnt a.m. daylight there much at all, occasionally but no pattern to it. Pretty sure he was circling in open fields to go back to bed. Would have been dang tough to kill without the cam data.

Sounds like our season's were really similar. I actually covered over 100 miles scouting and re-scouting those "history trees or spots. The biggest monkey wrench was that we only had a minor amount of early mast. The majority of the season deer were on browse which pretty well wipes out the food or food to bed strategies as far as pinpointing where a deer was going to put it's feet. I mostly stuck to heavy cover/bedding areas with a preferred browse source in them and/or travel areas with heavy cover. Was close to plenty of deer just seemed to seldom guess right on pinpointing where they were going to walk within those areas. When I did, either I had non-legal or young bucks get right or on several occasions had does in range but couldnt get a clear shot opportunity. Either learned or re-confirmed several travel areas that when there is mast, should pay dividends.